Ford and the "No More Cars" Statement(s) – Q1 2018 Earnings Up 9 Percent

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Those coal plants are being built as part of the One Belt One Road initiative. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_B...e#Leveraging_China’s_infrastructure_expertise
    Some of those plants are going up in places with unreliable, or no, power.

    Mostly it is a bone China is throwing to their coal sector, because they are cutting back on coal back home. China's people want clean air, and electricity production from coal is dropping there. So all these plug ins won't be powered by coal.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_China
    I'm sure you can find articles about new coal plants being built in China itself. What those articles tend to not mention is that for those new more efficient, cleaner plants that come on line, a greater amount of older, dirtier capacity is taken off the grid. In the US, we just grandfather those old plants under old regulations so they can keep on polluting.
     
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  2. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    You didn’t see the part about expanding the

    World’s coal fired capacity

    By 43%. ?????

    Really? You missed that?

    /I’ll tell you who “got the bone”,.. and it wasn’t China’s coal sector.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
  3. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Are coal plants in Vietnam going to be powering plug in cars in China?

    Just as there is no average grid in the US, there is no average grid for Asia or the world. China is investing heavily in renewables for their power, and cars, which was what I was addressing. Some of those Chinese companies building plants outside their home country no longer have such projects in China.

    One Belt and Road is an investment and aid initiative to build new markets for Chinese goods. Sucks that it includes coal power, but has anybody else stepped up with deals for power generation to these poorer regions?
     
  4. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Sure.

    President Donald Trump,.. working right along side the Russians .

    That’s a good thing, right?

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/26/business/exim-bank-vietnam-russia-coal.html
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Since my statement wasn't clear, I was asking if anyone is doing anything to support non-coal power in these areas?
     
  6. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    With gas at 3.7X in Los Angeles and San Francisco, I wonder how many F150's they are selling there right now? Loving the heck out of my Prius right about now.
     
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  7. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Having thought the "Ford switching to no cars" thing over (again) .....

    I wouldn't be surprised if Ford ends up building/selling a bunch of PHEV F-150s, .. it seems the logical/smart business thing to do.

    -- Assumption: -------- Ford can add in a PHEV system, perhaps incorporating 4WD (and off-the-line performance) where it wasn't there ... and likely make a profit with a $5k to $7.5k upcharge.

    It'll more than double the mpg . So the consumer is going to see a 3 to 5 year payback (Ford will be happy to finance your fuel savings with a loan). If gas prices and consumer sentiment swings, (and assuming Ford has flexibility in the production lines) .. then they can just shift the phev to non-phev parts ratio -- way less risk then throwing a bunch of eggs in the pure EV basket.

    /... a BEV pickup makes almost no sense with the foreseeable battery tech (high speed highway range limit and charging infrastructure).
    //I'll bet the switch to aluminum covers most of the PHEV weight addition.
    ///plus (big plus for the OEMs:() -- this would basically eliminate all the independent shop work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
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  8. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Ford's most eco pickup gets 25 mpg highway. Add a in a PHEV-25 system and the average user is probably looking at 50+ mpg (average annual). Add convenience charging at work (if you have a long-ish commute) and your probably talking 70+mpg(average annual). (tank to tanks will swing wildly based on miles between charges)

    25 miles worth of battery ought to fit underneath the bed pretty easy.

    http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2018/06/2020-ford-f-150-plug-in-hybrid-spied.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    I spoke with some of the Ford reps at the MAMA Fall Rally and they were hush hush on the F-150 Hybrid program. I can only hope they bring he PHEV as that makes the most sense. Electric bills to charge that are going to be onerous in high electricity rate states like California however. We are up to $0.48/kWh after the baseline 384 now. Ouch!!!

    Wayne
     
  10. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne, glad to see you're back.

    Yah, the "spy shots" are out there. But I wouldn't expect to see it (in the U.S.) until gas prices go up and stay up for a while.
     
  11. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Is this the F-150 PHEV drivetrain ... (sort of)?

    ---------------------
    "All of the previous Ford and Lincoln hybrid hybrids utilized a two-motor power-split hybrid transaxle similar to that found in the Toyota Prius but the Aviator has something quite different. Ford had already previously announced plans to offer hybrid versions of the F-150 and Mustang from 2020 onward. John Davis, chief program engineer for the Aviator declined to discuss if this is the same system that will appear in the pickup and sports car, but it seems likely that it is.
    Referred to as the modular hybrid architecture, the new system is based on the existing 10-speed automatic transmission already offered in the F-150 and Mustang. An electric motor is added between the torque convertor and gearbox to provide electric drive and regenerative braking. This approach leaves open the possibility to use different sized motors for different applications and Davis declined to give much detail on the Aviator setup other than to say it would generate more than 450 hp and 600 lb-ft of torque.

    The vehicle platform has been designed to accommodate the battery below the floor on the right side of the transmission and drive shaft. The liquid-cooled lithium ion battery pack sits below the second row seat running roughly from the back of the front seat and ending ahead of the rear axle.....
    .......
    No information is being revealed at this time about the capacity of the battery or specifics of its construction. However, Davis did acknowledge that 50 km (31 miles) of electric range is a crucial threshold for incentives in China and this is a global vehicle. That said, we can probably count on at least 16-20 kWh of battery capacity and somewhere around 32-35 miles of electric driving. Like most plug in hybrids, there is no DC fast charging support, just 120V or 240V charging."

    The 2020 Lincoln Aviator Gets A 450+HP Plug-In Hybrid And Points To Ford's Future
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/samabu...brid-and-points-to-fords-future/#caf3a4916a16
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  12. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    This story is evolving ...

    "Diess, who raised the possibility last month that VW could build cars in U.S. Ford plants with UAW workers, told the Free Press on Monday: "It's too early to announce. We have a press meeting tomorrow. We'll announce more and want to announce it together."
    He added: "We are really strong in Europe and China, probably not as strong in the United States so we are very complementary — Ford and Volkswagen. More tomorrow."

    Bill Ford and VW CEO both promise some details on auto giants' alliance
    https://www.freep.com/story/money/c...ord-vw-alliance-detroit-auto-show/2570278002/

    /I did not see this one coming
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Heard a rumor earlier that the F150 hybrid would be a parallel, so this is likely the system for it.
    Reports on the Explorer hybrid, which is mostly the same system as the Aviator, state it is the say was what the Mustang will get.

    An alliance with VW has been in the works. The only known about it is the sharing of developmental costs of commercial vehicles. Perhaps Ford will get VW's MEB.
     
  14. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Ford's way of saying " We don't have a clue about developing a good car that people will actually buy."
     
  15. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Edited.

    I'm sure Ford did not come up with a unique hybrid system for this police vehicle, but I did not see much in this Ford info page about the details other than basic ICE displacement and overall HP ratings. I wonder what the model split will be in actual orders and deployment... Mostly standard ICE with 3.0L EcoBoost® and burning lots of 93 octane?

    https://www.ford.com/police-vehicles/hybrid-utility/

    This police special's hybrid system feels like a low to medium boost by the hybrid system.

    Horsepower / 3.3L HEV
    318 (combined system hp)
    285 @ 6,500 rpm (gas engine)
    Torque / 3.3L HEV
    260 lb.-ft.@ 4,000 rpm
    // Bill added: torque numbers are for the gas engine alone since these are the ratings of the 3.3L V6//


    Horsepower / 3.0L EcoBoost®
    400 @ 5,500 rpm*
    Torque / 3.0L EcoBoost®
    415 lb.-ft.@ 3,000 rpm*
    *Horsepower and torque ratings achieved with 93-Octane fuel


    Horsepower / 3.3L Direct-Injection V6
    285 @ 6,500 rpm
    Torque / 3.3L Direct-Injection V6
    260 lb.-ft.@ 4,000 rpm
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
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  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    And VW saying we don't know how to build a truck.
    It is surely the same system as the new Explorer. We are going to have to wait until the details come out on that.
    I wouldn't read to much into the power difference between the hybrid and 3.3L V6. The hybrid likely has an Atkinsonized cycle, and will produce lower power on its own.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  17. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Good point. Ford's going to have to clean up their published power/torque figures...
     
  18. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Indeed.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  19. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Related....?

    Apparently, Boeing and several of the Japanese “bigun’s” (Mitsu, Kawasaki, Subaru etc...) are collaborating on an electric airplane. Which might lead one to guess that there’s a major battery breakthrough involved. (Meaning production battery, not just lab)

    GS Yuasa has been planning a lithium surfer battery with something like 2x or 3x energy density to go into production in 2020.....

    The “related” part is that there just seems like too much jumping around in the EV (and EA) space to be justified with only the current battery tech (and no real(or perceived) shortage of oil).

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Boeing-enlists-Japan-Inc.-in-pursuit-of-electric-planes
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019 at 10:08 PM
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  20. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    From 2014:

    “GS Yuasa International Ltd., Tokyo Stock Exchange: 6674; “GS Yuasa”, has completed initial development of a new advanced lithium secondary battery which has a “Sulfur - Porous Carbon Composite” positive electrode with 8 times higher capacity 1) than that of conventional lithium ion battery 2) positive electrodes and a silicon based negative electrode with high capacity as shown in Figure 1. The energy density with respect to material amount of both electrodes 3) for new battery is approximately 3 times higher than that of conventional lithium ion battery judging from discharge performance that we obtained by experimental. This technology will allow the driving range of electric vehicles to significantly increase. The practical technology development will be preceded by further improvement of durability performance for the silicon based negative electrodes, so that we expect its samples to be available by 2020.”

    https://www.gs-yuasa.com/en/newsrelease/article.php?ucode=gs151009100709_160
     
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