Uber - LYFT Rideshare

Discussion in 'General' started by xcel, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Uber and Hyundai Want to Get Their Heads in The Clouds

    LAS VEGAS -- Uber and Hyundai announced a new partnership to develop Uber Air Taxis for a future aerial ride share network and unveiled a new full-scale aircraft concept at the 2020 Consumer Electronics Show (CES). Hyundai is the first automotive company to join the Uber Elevate initiative, bringing automotive-scale manufacturing capability and a track record of mass-producing electric vehicles. The air vehicle concept Hyundai released today was created in part through Uber’s open design process, a NASA-inspired approach that jump-starts innovation by publicly releasing vehicle design concepts so any company can use them to innovate their air taxi models and engineering technologies.

    [​IMG]

    Hyundai will produce and deploy the air vehicles, and Uber will provide airspace support services, connections to ground transportation, and customer interfaces through an aerial ride share network. Both parties are collaborating on infrastructure concepts to support take-off and landing for this new class of vehicles.

    Hyundai has worked with Uber Elevate to develop a PAV (Personal Air Vehicle) model, S-A1, that utilizes innovative design processes to optimize electric vertical take-off and landing (eVTOL) aircraft for aerial ridesharing purposes. The Elevate initiative based this process on NASA’s historical approach of putting design concepts out publicly to inspire innovation amongst multiple companies, spurring the development of common research models to investigate novel aerodynamic concepts and catalyzing industry progress in wing design, noise, aerodynamics, and simulation verification.

    Cruising speed up to 180 mph with a cruising altitude of between 1,000 and 2,000 feet out to a range of 60 miles.
    The Hyundai vehicle will be 100% electric, utilizing distributed electric propulsion and during peak hours will require about five to seven minutes for recharging.

    Hyundai’s electric aircraft utilizes distributed electric propulsion, powering multiple rotors and propellers around the airframe to increase safety by decreasing any single point of failure. Having several, smaller rotors also reduces noise relative to large rotor helicopters with combustion engines, which is very important to cities.

    The model is designed to take off vertically, transition to wing-borne lift in cruise, and then transition back to vertical flight to land.

    The Hyundai vehicle will be piloted initially, but over time they will become autonomous.

    The cabin is designed with four passenger seats, allowing riders to board / disembark easily and avoid the dreaded middle seat with enough space for a personal bag or backpack / rider.

    Ushering in the era of mobility, Hyundai’s exploration of future urban transportation incorporates the electric PAV concept with a new ground transportation, the Purpose Built Vehicle (PBV) concept. Hyundai’s vision for creating communities from future transit systems comes into focus with yet another new infrastructure concept, called the Hub. When many PBVs and PAVs are docked and connected to a Hub, they make a new public space where diverse groups of people can come together.

    This is a lot of non-sense. Hyundai has no experience with aircraft, the FAA would have to approve a swarm technology to avoid even minor collisions, the energy needed to ascend and propel an aircraft forward is far more than any ground based vehicle leading to terrible per person efficiencies and the cost would be ridiculous for both the recharging and the infrastructure.

    Wayne
     
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  2. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Well. Lots of propellors to chop & dice passengers, new to being around airplanes, & propellor positions that will be new to seasoned pilots, & service personnel. I can see someone moving to avoid one propellor & running into another propellor.
     
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  3. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    5-7 minutes to recharge ? Maybe in the year 2070.

    Okay , raise your hand if you want to be a "test passenger" in the first autonomous electric airplane with no pilot.

    That's what I thought.
     
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  4. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Would that be less safe than a drunk &/or sub-standard pilot...... or a plane with Boeing 737 Max take-off software?
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2020
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  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    The Boeing 737 by far. ;)

    Wayne
     
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    This is the vision. The "planes" will not have you exiting into the blades but into the hub and you jump into another Uber to get to your final destination. Again, 60-miles max and you will still take an Uber for the last few miles.

    [​IMG]

    The entire scheme's business model will only work for $150 to $250+ 60-mile rides and it will take more time than a std. $50 - 40-mile Uber ride anyway.

    Wayne
     
  7. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Hi Wayne, I can understand the cost aspect, but why would it take longer? Is it because of the requirement to go the last few miles the old fashioned way? Lots of inefficiencies in chopping up the trip... I want to just fly to/from the airport without going to a central hub. Kind of like why I don't fly in general anyway because I might as well drive the intermediate long distances rather than mess with getting to and from the airports on both ends, having to allow multiple hours with no actual distance traveled. This is even before the consideration of energy/pollution costs to flying. Nice dream to attain personal freedom of electric flying, but maybe I'll just get used to the VR world and leave physical travel behind. :D
     
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    It is the requirement to get to and from the Hub(s) on both ends of the trip.

    Uber started a Helicopter service in Manhattan last year and while the flight across town was cool, it was "UBER" expensive and it took longer because of getting to the first buildings roof flight deck, flying over, coming down from the second buildings roof flight deck, and Ubering to the destination.

    For example, lets say I were to receive a request (ping) for a 35-mile trip to the San Diego AP from near my home. I have done that trip in as little as 35-minutes and as much as an hour with an average of about 55-minutes from home pickup to the departure terminal drop-off. That includes a 7-minute average pickup from ping to the persons home, 3-minute load of luggage, 45-minute drive, and 1-minute unload. The passenger does not feel the time for me to get to their home so their time of wait from home to terminal is 49-minutes.

    If one were to take somebody to the UBER FLIGHT Hub, you still have 7-minute average pickup from ping to the persons home - not on the passengers time however, 3-minute load of luggage, 15-minute ride to the HUB and 1-minute unload for the first segment. Now the person has to take his or her bags into the hub, up the stairs or elevator, load the persons luggage and they get on the VSTOL plane. There is a wait time for the plane as it is not there waiting while you drop them off. Let us say 20-minutes total. They are at 39-minutes and have not moved in the plane yet. Now they fly to a near the AP UBER FLIGHT HUB covering 30-miles in 10-minutes. Now they are up to 49-minutes. They unload, and take a shuttle to the departure terminal taking another 10-minutes. Now they are at 59-minutes at a cost of maybe $125.

    Flying with all the transfers attached takes 59-minutes and costs maybe $125.
    Being driven takes 49-minutes and costs $50.

    Remember they are moving their own luggage from the Uber pickup vehicle to the VSTOL, off the VSTOL to a Shuttle, and from the Shuttle to the Departure Terminal vs none with a std. Uber.

    See how the time, cost, and inconvenience do not add up? There are some situations where it could lower time by a few minutes - San Diego UBER FLIGHT HUB to LAX for example - but the expense is going to be even more ridiculous. The VSTOL cannot even travel that 100-mile distance and would have to recharge half way for another 10-minutes waste of time.

    Wayne
     
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  9. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Thanks, Wayne. Nice and easy to understand with the example.
     
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  10. litesong

    litesong litesong

    I agree with you. Once I went to NYC from Washington state. My brother helped by detailing how I could take an airliner across the country. But I love to drive, & repeated cross country treks that I've done before (different roads, tho). Had a great time, while driving to NYC, in NYC, & driving around the country when I left NYC. All in all, my "pleasure per trip" was much higher than if I had taken a plane.
     
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  11. litesong

    litesong litesong

    ....... unless the planners can't get full funding & cost-saving ideas wittle the plans down to a red carpet laid out to the "plane's" landing zone. Besides, landing helicopters on toadstools doesn't sound like the safest procedure, specially in windy rain or snowy weather. Nah, I'll hook out my hand & hitchhike 50miles.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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  12. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    I suspect the autopilot will be able to handle the wind and landing much better than a human pilot can. The pilot will just steer when desired and change elevations, similar to what a quadcopter drone pilot does now.
     
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  13. litesong

    litesong litesong

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  14. litesong

    litesong litesong

    You're right!! Its better if Mitsubishi built the aircraft. They built the Japanese Zero....
     
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  15. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    There's a good idea !
    Again , will you volunteer to be the crash test dummy ?
     
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  16. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Landing on water craft always presents a challenge, even without wind. Just the wave motion can throw things off. The more successful drone pilots landing on boats hand catch them, provided they're the smaller drones. Forget the heavy ones. I'll stand by my statement about autopilot doing better in the provided scenario on land. I've seen videos of non-pilots flying 2-person multi-rotor aircraft. They're just steering. The landings are well executed by the autopilot. Helicopter pilots do a great job with the many controls, but it would be hard for a human to match a computer when trying to hold altitude and position on a windy day in a multi-rotor (4/6/8 or more propellers) craft without the aid of the computer and GPS and other sensors. As an example, consumer drones do a great job holding station and taking steady video in winds up to 20-25 knots.

    Well there's a loaded question! I would be happy to be a passenger, but not a test dummy. :D

    It isn't so different to go up in a helicopter. Landing a small plane with crosswinds or down drafts would be scary, too. I had a nice helicopter-to-the-airport experience back in the 1980s when I was a young engineer going on a company trip. The 30-mile helicopter ride from the corporate headquarters in the suburbs of Boston to Logan airport went without a hitch. It was very quick, too, compared to a limousine ride. I was hoping the Uber service would be like that, but I guess not...
     
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  17. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Never should one being egg another being to risk their lives.
     
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  18. litesong

    litesong litesong

    My long term auto mechanic flies helicopters. He shares video with me (of the land in which I adore to drive, walk & hike). I love it & we have good talks. I really do worry about him, tho.
     
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