Uber - LYFT Rideshare

Discussion in 'General' started by xcel, Feb 4, 2018.

  1. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    With Wayne's analysis, optimization and focus, he'll probably be able to retire in a few years. :D
     
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  2. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Sounds like he's doing 14 hour days, 7 days a week. He'll be lucky if he can keep that pace up for a few months...
     
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  3. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    No problem; Wayne's an automaton. :) (kind of like what's going to replace all the Uber/Lyft drivers out there!)
     
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  4. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I could be an Uber driver , if I wasn't so darned lazy.
     
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  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Some days you have to take a few hours off. After her second oil change, my parents came home so a long visit with a full nights sleep sets me up for success starting all over again in a few minutes.

    Oil changes

    The Elantra ECO requires a 6,000 mile OCI. WalMart has Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W-30 for $20.97 and < $3 SuperTech filter. The first oil change I had done from a local Mechanic for $17.50 so just over $42.50 all in. Second OC was at my local WalMart for $9.88 incl. the filter ($19.88 normally) because I supplied my own WalMart purchased oil. Just over $32 for that one.

    Wayne
     
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Mike:

    Now that I have figured out how to maximize earnings from the Chicago market, it is almost time to head to San Diego. San Diego has higher per mile rates ($1.16/mi vs. $0.95/mi) but lower per minute rates ($0.15/min vs. $0.20/min). I doubt it has nearly the overnight activity - read earning potential - that Chicago has. :(

    After I had the Uber region moved to Chicago, I could run both apps at the same time and kill the one once the other pinged. It was the first key to maximizing the number of drives/hour and making good $s vs. screwing around at < minimum wage for hours on end and sometimes full days while running LYFT exclusively. It takes almost 2 weeks to have your region swapped as Uber runs another full background check for each region change for some reason???

    Boost Zones are always nice but do not get hung up in them. Boost Zones are sections of your region where Uber and Lyft provides a 1.1 to 1.7 X normal distance rate for each ride. The customer does not see or pay this. My home region had a 1.3X rate between 01:00 am and 05:00 am on Tuesday morning so I decided to hang around. Just one ride per hour and totally not worth it. If it were in downtown - this happens sometimes as well, the number of riders per hour will at least double and in some cases triple or quadruple that ride/hour rate so it is best to hope for ride requests heading towards Chicago and while waiting driving towards the "hot" areas within Chicago.

    I have also learned to cut Lyft short. Anything over a 14 minute ping and I do not accept them unless it states > 45-minute ride. Lyft does not provide a time and distance pay after 10-minute pickup like Uber does so do not accept them.

    I also do not allow Lyft to take me to the poorer and more crime prone areas on Chicago;s south side. I have found the $2.93 to $3.69 rides and maybe 3/hour rate with 3 to 5 miles between each while running stop sign to stop sign - sometime as many as 12 stop signs per mile or light to light and catching every third makes absolutely no sense.

    I also find the period between 09:00 am and 11:30 am to be a bad time for rideshare. I am lucky to pick up a ride per hour even within downtown Chicago.

    Driving in downtown Chicago sucks. My Samsung Galaxy S8 and Garmin Smart70 can spin in circles, not pick up a turn for over 15-seconds, or not even place you on the road you are on for upwards of a minute as the GPS SAT signals are blocked or inaccurate within the tall buildings. In the rain it gets even worse! I am learning to navigate downtown Chicago better but I am not a fan of heading deep into downtown and hanging out. The probability for a minor collision or even hitting a "walker" goes up logarithmicly.

    Besides the 18 Elantra SE/SEL/ECO, I do not believe there is another new vehicle that you can purchase that makes sense to do this. The $13,808 purchase price +TTL and mods was key to minimizing the TCO since you will burn out your vehicle in just a year and a half to 3-years if you are attacking ride share like you must to make it "make sense." When the Prius Prime PHEV receives the 3-passenger rear seat, it will also fit the bill when purchased correctly. You must receive great FE and purchase for an incredibly low price or ride share will not work well to your benefit. A used Prius fits as well. 40+ mpg and less than $17k all in or 50+ mpg and less than $19k all in appears to be maximums on the curve for a higher overall Ride Share income. The less comfortable ergonomics of the 3rd and 4th gen Prius lineup will have to be taken into account for taller drivers. The Prius' would be tough given the 14 to 24-hour stints including naps with the set back dropped while in the same.

    Bill, I did go into this with my eyes open and it was still a steep learning curve. If anyone can make this work, it will take long hours and a lot of frustration before you have a feel for the time of day, hours, and neighborhoods within your region that work. Neighborhoods from the IL/WI border to the south side and west encompass about 10 sq. miles of the total > 2,500 sq. miles region one would drive in.

    Carcus, a lot of hours for sure.

    I have to thank Jesse R for his insight as well. He received over $1k in signup bonus' from Uber and LYft because I signed up under his Invite code. He earned every $ of it with a daily breakdown and dissemination of individual rides to maximize income or make fewer mistakes. We call each other and if we are both between rides, we take the call. Otherwise, an immediate hangup so as to not other the rider in the other car.

    I am also now in search of a good - and inexpensive - electric razor. Normal shaving with a bladed razor takes me a few minutes but can be completed in under a minute with my fathers electric. The Braun Series 7 ($170+) and 9 Series ($250) are a bit to rich for my blood despite the rave reviews. The Norelco 4500 ($63) appears to be more my style. ;)

    I would have never thought that the minutes to shave would ever mean anything. After doing rideshare for a month, leaning to "shave" seconds - no pun intended :D - off of a daily interior wipe down, daily to three days vacuum, and finding the $3 auto car washes mean everything. Efficiency on all levels - costs and time - are a must to make this really worth doing.

    So far, I have had to complete three $3 auto car washes. $9 in total. Every time it rains or snows is a good thing as you do not have to wash the car. It is the days after you must. I should be washing the exterior more in fact.

    Water is costing me about $2.50/24 bottles and lasts about 2 weeks so $5/month in the winter. I suspect this will triple in the summer. My candy container is about $10/month as well.

    I am heading back to Calif. before the end of the month.

    Wayne
     
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  7. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Very insightful write-up, Wayne. Thanks!

    Maybe a used Prius V like some taxis? I don't know how hard these are to come by on the used market or how expensive. Or a Camry hybrid? If you go in knowing the car will only last a couple years, that might make the up-front selection easier, knowing how much you're willing/able to spend to make profit sense.
     
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  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Thanks! A used Prius v - my parents was almost that vehicle - makes sense. Its ergonomics are a mess for my frame however. No Android Auto and poor crash test ratings are also a detriment. The larger leg room and large cargo volume are a huge plus as well. Its upfront cost new is where it gets killed. You can pick up a new 18 Prius Two Eco for less and it has all the latest safety equipment other than BSM and RCTA. Finding one for $22k + TTL should not be to hard for the Two Eco? The $13,800 18 Elantra and its 40+ vs. 55+ from an 18 Prius takes hundreds of thousands of miles to make up at anything below $4.00/gal. At that point, both cars residuals are worthless so the TCO comes down to upfront price and fuel costs over 150k + miles.

    Wayne
     
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  9. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Can't argue with that! :)
     
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  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I just ordered a new Philips Norelco 4500 AT830/46 portable electric razor from Ebay for $32.50 shipped. Fingers crossed it beats my fathers $18 Norelco Menards special from 10 years ago. ;)

    [​IMG]

    The AquaTec Wet & Dry Philips Norelco 4500 Shaver can be used wet - in the shower, or dry.

    It includes Norelco's DualPrecision Pivot, Flex & Float low friction heads that automatically adjust to every curve of your face and neck. The shaver comes with patented Super Lift&Cut dual-action blades that lift hairs.

    An integrated pop-up trimmer allows trimming and shaping sideburns, goatees, mustaches, and more.

    The shaver is fully washable. After use, simply hold the shaver under running water to clean. This shaver also comes with a cleaning brush for more thorough cleanup.

    A one-hour charge provides up to 50 minutes of cordless operation at home or on the road. A 3-minute quick-charge option from flat provides enough power for a single shave.

    From the YouTubes I have watched, the now discontinued Norelco 4500 is really really quiet.

    I was tempted to move down to the 2100 or 3500 Norelco cordless series. 2100 for $39.95 new minus 15 percent directly from Philips - but its 35-minutes use after 8-hours charge time held me back. The 3500 series costs $60+ at retail and offers 45-minutes after 8-hour charge. Neither are water resistance so dry use only as well.

    Wayne
     
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  11. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I will be very interested to see how well this works for you. I've tried electrics , but LONG ago , and I was not impressed.
    I like the idea of being able to shave while I drive.
     
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  12. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    I prefer this one. More expensive, but the rotaries didn't work too well for my minimal stubble.

    myrazor.jpg
     
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  13. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    This article about Uber and Lyft came out in the Guardian this week:

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/01/uber-lyft-driver-wages-median-report

    The article's about a new study which found that the median wage for Uber and Lyft drivers is about $8.50 an hour (the first draft of the study said $3.37 an hour, but Uber apparently read the study and criticized the math, and now the result is $8.55 an hour). The basic problem seems to be that Uber and Lyft drivers are not factoring in maintenance/repairs and rapid depreciation when figuring out their earnings. Or, they're essentially borrowing against the future value of their cars in a way that is unsustainable. Wayne, is this consistent with your experience over the last month? If you drove at the same pace for say, 6-12 months, and factored in repairs and depreciation, what would your rough hourly wage be?
     
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Puddleglum:

    Much higher than that although there are days with Lyft alone it is not worth turning the key/pushing the button.

    Overall Uber/Lyft is providing about $21/hr. incl. fuel, OCs, and consumable expenses. It appears that ~ 8-weeks out or 650 hours pays off the car including expenses. $/mile is just over $1.00. This is why it is so important to keep the TCO at an absolute minimum. Try and do this with a $25k or higher price new vehicle along with under 40 mpg could lead to disastrous results.

    No OT, no vacation, and no healthcare as well. I will keep the TCO up to date as I strive to earn the vehicles cost before heading back to California. This will include a tire wear estimate after 15k to 17k miles. Brakes and struts were mentioned earlier.

    Regarding taxes, here in the U.S., rideshare drivers receive $0.545/mile write off plus a 20 percent passthrough on after expense income with the new tax bill. All in $~ $0.10/mile in taxes.

    Wayne
     
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  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I just passed the 10,000 mile of rideshare - 13,200 miles on the Elantra - and the cumulative 1,000 rider mark across both platforms last night. When the clock strikes 04:00 am, I will have a full accounting in terms of $s earned for the miles through week 5.5.

    Another interesting experiment last night as I was pulled west into far northeastern IL, Lyft is absolutely a ghost town by comparison to Uber here in Northeastern IL. I run both at the same time when I launch, Uber pings, and it never is overridden even during a short periods of downtime when I run both apps again. 15 rides on Lyft over 15 hours of "On time" according to the app. About 20 actual on-time hours. Uber is 132 rides over 75 hours of online time. The 75 and 20 are mostly running together so more like 77 hours of "On time" in total.

    With so few Uber drivers this far North, ping times were sometimes exceeding 20-minutes with the Uber "10-minute" time and distance protection. Even with that protection, it was very hard to achieve my target minimum of $20/hour. $326 earned incl electronic tips + $28 cash tip(s) over 15-hours total for a $23.60/hour rate. Passenger consumables included 9 waters at $1.00, $23.75 in fuel, and $3.50 in Peanut Butter cups while driving 320-miles. The suburban miles were a lot less damaging top the car as the roads are so much smoother and there are not stop signs and stop lights every block like there are in the city. Chicago proper earnings would have been in the $375+ range on a Saturday night incl. miles to and from with or without passengers. Was the loss of $50 worth it? not imho.

    The Philips Norelco 4500 arrived and I gave it a good first use. Quiet and smoother than the older ones I have. My dad had a 40-year old plug-in Sunbeam that after cleaning the heads started up like all electrics do. They just go. The new Norelco is definitely a closer shave although the 40-year old Sunbeam worked perfectly fine to "clean up" a touch.

    Wayne
     
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  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    My latest ratings after 5-weeks as I have been off for three days waiting for my car to be repaired after a lady in a 17 Chevrolet Spark backed into the 18 Elantra's Passenger side front door while I was in park and waiting to pick up a customer. On the insurance front, Lyft will not back its drivers worth a damn. With their $2,500 deductible and you are off your own insurance while picking up and/or driving a passenger under Lyft, they will not even chase the other drivers insure company when it was clearly the other drivers fault. This is not a good outcome for Lyft drivers with far less financial backing behind them then I am blessed with.

    Uber/Lyft rides and ratings

    [​IMG]
    4.93 on Uber and % on Lyft. Lyft rounds to the nearest tenth so it could be as low as 4.95.​

    Wayne
     
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  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Another problem with Lyft is its refusal to protect its drivers from overly long ping times and distance from the passenger. This ride was the worst I have experienced with the ping coming in at 28-minutes and 25-miles out before I had a chance to stop and grab the screen shots after accepting the ride.

    [​IMG]

    I was on the IL/WI border and the ping was showed about 2/3 the way to Milwaukee. Where in the hell were the Milwaukee Lyft drivers???

    This was a 28-minute and 25-mile out ping that Lyft knew was just a 2.1 mile ride worth just $4.10. As drivers, you do not know how far a passenger is going unless it is over 45-minutes. The time to get to the customers address, wait to pick the individual up, the ride itself, the drop off time, and the dead head drive back to IL took over 1 hour and 10 minutes, covered 55 miles, and earned a total of $4.10. For most drivers, this ping would not even pay for the fuel.

    Uber protects its drivers somewhat in that after 10-minutes, they pay time and distance. I have seen a 20-minute ping on Uber between Lake Michigan and Rockford, IL and paid each and every time over 10-minutes. THey also sometimes send out the message no Uber drivers are available if a driver is just to far out. Uber pays the time and distance our t of their earnings so it makes sense that they sometimes sends this message back to a customer when making a request.

    Lyft allows this kind of crap to occur and they know it is happening as they see the customers destination. I have experienced 7 20+ minute pings to date and picked up each and everyone of them. I do not accept over 13-minute pings on the Lyft platform anymore due to this nonsensical real earnings loss.

    All in, if there are no drivers within 20-minutes, both apps should go to instate surge pricing of 2 to 4Xs the normal rate. If the customer does not want to pay, they can refuse the apps estimated rate and call a cab to pay the 3 to 4Xs rate and hope the cab arrives which in many cases will not even after the call.

    Wayne
     
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI All:

    And finally, the worst day on Lyft will make one cry. This result was actually a 14-hour day on the Lyft platform alone while I was waiting for Uber to swap from Milwaukee to Chicgo. The earnings after 14-hours and 205 miles of driving was less than minimum wage let alone paying for fuel and the car.

    [​IMG]

    All-told, Uber has enough business in the Chicago region to maintain a $20+ earnings rate whereas Lyft is more along the lines of $12 to $16.00 per hour. I am very much looking forward to experience both platforms in San Diego when I head back in just two weeks as well.

    On the other hand, yesterday, 03/16/2018, Lyft provided $136 in 5.5 hours for a $24.72/hour take not incl. expenses.

    Wayne
     
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  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The Philips Norelco 4500 AT830/46 is Da Bomb! Shave until you hear no more whisker cutting and you have one very close shave. The battery lasts for numerous shaves - I have only gone three between charging vs the 10 spec - it is light, easy to handle, and it is very quiet. If there was one addition I would like to see, the actual charge of the Li-Ion battery. For $32,50 shipped, this shaver was one of the best deals I have completed this year.

    Wayne
     
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  20. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I will write my letter to Santa today ! Or more likely , amazon.
     
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