2018 Hyundai Elantra Value Edition - $15,488

Discussion in 'Automotive Hot Deals' started by xcel, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2018 Hyundai Value Edition - MSRP of $19,850 + Mats ($125), Cargo Package w/ cargo tray, net and trunk hook ($185), and D&H ($885) for a total retail of $21,045. The 2017 Hyundai Elantra Value Edition is EPA rated 28/37 mpg city/highway.

    [​IMG]

    Drivetrain

    Atkinsonized 147 hp and 132 lb-ft. of torque 2.0L I4
    6-speed AT

    Exterior

    Proximity hands-free smart trunk
    Dual fold-away power bodycolor side mirrors
    Heated side mirrors
    16” alloys w/ 205/55R16 tires
    Variable intermittent windshield wipers/washer
    Hood insulator
    LED Daytime Running Lights
    Automatic headlight control
    Door handle approach lights

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Exterior

    [​IMG]
    Limited shown.​

    Interior

    Power tilt-and-slide sunroof
    Dual auto climate w/ CleanAir Ionizer and Auto Defog
    Front center console w/ flip-up and sliding cover
    Rear center armrest w/ cupholders
    Cruise control
    Power windows with driver's Auto-up/down + front illuminated switches
    Power door locks
    Proximity Key entry w/ illuminated pushbutton start
    Leather-wrapped wheel and shift knob
    Tilt-and-telescopic wheel
    Steering-wheel-mounted audio, BT and cruise controls
    Smartphone/USB, Aux input, and Dual 12V Outlets
    7” display w/ AM/FM/HD/XM SAT Radio/MP3/Android Auto & Apple CarPlay Audio w/ 6 speakers
    Rearview camera with dynamic guidelines
    6-way driver seat with seat height adjustment for both driver and passenger
    Heated front seats
    Front and rear door map pockets
    Front passenger seatback pocket
    60/40 split fold-down rear seats
    Maplights with sunglasses holder, dome lamp & trunk lamp
    Dual illuminated vanity mirrors
    Auto-dimming rearview w/ HomeLink
    Sunvisor extensions
    Trunk lid cover

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Interior

    [​IMG]
    Eco trim shown.​

    2018 Hyundai Elantra Value Edition Safety

    Dual front, side, side curtain, and driver’s knee airbags
    Vehicle Stability Management (VSM) system
    Electronic Stability Control (ESC)
    Traction Control System (TCS)
    Hillstart Assist Control (HAC)
    Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD)
    Front and Rear discs
    Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
    Blind Spot Detection with Rear Cross-traffic Alert and Lane Change Assist
    Temp spare

    [​IMG]

    Besides the already low $15,488, the Uber ($1,000) and BoostUp ($500) discounts are readily available as is the possibility of a San Diego Auto Show Bonus ($500) by 12/28/2017. Do the math on this one at $13,488 + TTL. ;)

    Wayne
     
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  2. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Wow! That's no stripped model either.
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Indeed!

    I drove over to Kearny Mesa Hyundai in San Diego this morning to make sure this deal was legit and after personally speaking with the Internet Mgr., it is. $13,988 + TTL and DOC with the $1,000 UBER and $500 BoostUp on either a brand new 2018 Elantra Value Edition in red or a brand new 2018 Elantra Value Edition in blue. I suspect the San Diego Auto Show $500 incentive will show up just before the New Year as that Auto Show is scheduled from December 28th, 2017 through January 1, 2018.

    [​IMG]

    I love this San Diego area dealership as we received a huge discount on Marian's 17 Sonata Hybrid Limited this past January. There are no gotchas that get in the way of most of the automobile sales universe either. Who knows, I may be driving a new Red or Blue 18 Elantra Value Edition in the not to distant future? Or maybe the one 2018 ECO trim in all of Calif. from a Hyundai dealership outside of LA if they would offer the same $2,297 discount minus the $500 LA Auto Show cash that is on it currently? The rest of the discounts are standard fare across the entire country.

    Wayne
     
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  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I was just quoted over the phone $15,707 OTD incl. TTL and Doc for a new 2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO in white w/ black interior after all the deals. This LA Area dealership was being a bit cagey so until I see the numbers in writing, this is just a preliminary offer.

    Here is the Monroney for the 2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO in question.

    [​IMG]

    This one works out like this:

    Retail Price: $21,645 incl. $20,550 MSRP, mats ($125), First Aid Kit ($30) and Wheel Locks ($55) <-- both a waste, and D&H ($885)
    Dealer Discount: $2,297

    Hyundai Factory Rebate: $2,500
    Hyundai Finance Bonus: $500
    Holiday Bonus Cash: $500
    LA Auto Show Bonus: $500
    Affiliate Disc. (UBER): $1,000
    BoostUp Disc.: $500
    ______________________________

    $13,848 before TTL.

    Title and Registration: $280
    Doc Prep: $80
    Total State Taxes (7.75% on $19,348): $1,499
    ______________________________

    Grand Total OTD: $15,707

    Hyundai Elantra ECO

    [​IMG]
    Possible future daughter-in-law taking a short 2017 Hyundai Elantra ECO test drive in April of 2016.​

    What does the above tell us? Most people spend their long and hard-working hours earning $s. I have spent my long and hard-working hours trying to spend $s. I would tend to say most everyone else is far better off. :D

    Wayne
     
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  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I just placed $500 down on a new 2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO - white w/ black interior - with an OTD price of $15,707 incl. Calif. state tax. It will be ready for me to pick up when I get back from the East Coast and Midwest next week. Until I receive the keys and drive off however, this is still just an e-mail contract.

    My breakdown on fuel cost and the resale delta look like this:
    • 18 Elantra ECO (32/40 mpg city/highway) -- 40 mpg actual over 100,000 miles at $3.33/gallon = 2,500 gallons costing at a minimum $8,325
    • 18 Elantra Value Edition (28/37 mpg city/highway) -- 33 mpg actual over 100,000 miles at $3.33/gallon = 3,333 gallons costing at a minimum $10,090
    Efficiency should be much higher than the above case study's results of course but I am being cautiously conservative just in case.

    The Value Edition's power sunroof, Homelink, and mini-spare will probably fetch $250 more at trade-in than the ECO trim. The ECO's 15" tires will probably cost $100 less to replace at 100k miles or so. They also supply a softer ride no matter the pressure than the lower profile 16's on the SEL and VE and 17's on the Sport and Limited trims. I will have to purchase a 15" mini-spare and jack kit for the ECO trim and those "aint" cheap at ~ $250 shipped. The ECO trims fuel cost savings however is overwhelmingly positive compared to the Value Edition.

    In preps for the possibility of a future Hyundai purchase - I thought it would be either an 18 Ioniq SEL with the Tech Pkg. or the 18 Elantra Value Edition as ECO's were nowhere to be found just months ago - I created a BoostUp account three months ago so that the 30-day hold period before use was met. I signed up w/ UBER just 13-days ago and that approval arrived via text and e-mail in this morning.

    2017 Hyundai Elantra ECO

    [​IMG]
    Just minutes after picking it up from the local Press Fleet and ready for its first top off and measured drive just over a year ago.​

    If considering a new vehicle, you would be hard pressed to find a lower TCO from anything outside the Elantra lineup given the steep discounts available and detailed above. You will have to jump a few hoops but just make sure you start a BoostUp account 30-days prior and sign up with UBER even if you will never deliver a person, food and beverage, or package. Or maybe you will?

    Wayne
     
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  6. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne,

    Excellent find, and an interesting choice. I was aware that the Elantra Eco was the most efficient non-hybrid in the US, but I didn't know Hyundai was offering such steep discounts on them right now.

    I have a bunch of questions about this, but I know you're busy and I don't want to overwhelm you with questions - please feel free to skip any of these that you don't have time for (or any that are just plain boring). Also, if other folks want to jump in on any of these, please feel free.

    1. Why did you ultimately go with the Elantra Eco as opposed to the Ioniq hybrid SEL w/tech, or the Prius Prime, or the Ioniq PHEV? I imagine the obvious answer here is an extremely low TCO. But given that you're arguably the Tom Brady of hypermiling (I'm from Boston - this is a compliment, not an insult), it's a little surprising to me that even with someone like Wayne Gerdes behind the wheel for 7+ years, the math still doesn't work to make a Prius Prime or Ioniq PHEV more economical than a simple eco variant of a regular gas engine car. Does this say something about the state of the HEV and PHEV industry? Are cheaper, more efficient gas-engine cars looking like a better alternative to hybrids, or is the Elantra Eco an aberration? Lastly, from an environmental impact perspective, since the Elantra Eco doesn't have a hybrid battery (and therefore avoids some of the negative environmental impacts of hybrid battery production), could an argument be made that more efficient gas-engine cars like the Elantra Eco are closer to hybrids and PHEVs in overall environmental impact?


    2. How is the fuel efficiency in the Elantra Eco in both city driving and highway traffic? I looked back at your first drive results in this car, and saw that you were able to get about 57 mpg after an hour of traffic on 405. I'm assuming this is due to some pretty advanced hypermiling techniques? If so, what average mpg could a novice hypermiler expect to get in city driving or highway traffic in this car?

    3. Or better yet, if you had to guess, what total average mpg could a novice hypermiler expect to get in an Elantra Eco over the life of the car? Would 53-55 average mpg be too optimistic?

    4. What average mpg do you expect to get over the life of the car?

    I'm averaging 44.6 mpg in my 2016 Civic LX right now. This is an imperfect calculation as it's based on simply dividing the Trip B average on my Civic odometer (I don't have a Garmin) by the fill-up amount at the gas station, and then I keep track of it all on fuelly. But I imagine it isn't far off from the actual average because I drive 90% highways at off-peak hours -- a 22-mile RT commute to work on 50 mph parkways, and monthly drives on 65 mph interstates from NYC to either Boston or DC for various family/in-law obligations. I drive a militant 50 mph in the right lane on the way to and from work (48 mph if traffic is really light), and 65 mph on the Boston and DC trips when I'm alone, 70 mph when my wife is with me. Tires are usually at 36 PSI.

    Based on some rough calculations I did earlier this year, I figure I could average about 70 mpg in an Ioniq (either the HEV Blue/SEL or the PHEV, since I don't have at-home access to charging and would be driving a PHEV mostly in hybrid mode). This estimate is based mostly on the fact that I drive 90% highways at off-peak times, and that the Ioniq Blue's extremely impressive Speed vs. FE results which you compiled show 83 mpg at 50 mph and 60 mpg at 65 mph - the two average speeds at which I most frequently drive. Anyway, a 70 mpg average in the Ioniq might be slightly optimistic/arrogant, but I would hope I could get at least high 60's.


    5. One criticism of the Elantra Eco that I've read is that between like 0 - 15 mph, the transmission shudders sometimes. It apparently starts in second gear from a stop, then goes back to first? This reviewer says as much, and this is from a hybrid-friendly site:

    http://gas2.org/2016/12/06/2017-hyundai-elantra-eco-gets-driven-hard/

    Have you experienced this?

    6. Lastly, I wanted to ask you about self-driving technology, and particularly, about some arguments that have been made as to why it's not such a good idea. I've seen in a few other threads that you've spoken highly of certain RCC technology (Toyota's, for example), or that you've recommended getting the tech package on certain cars - like the Ioniq. But it's also my understanding that you don't use cruise control all that much - that you consistently get better fuel efficiency without it. So I guess my question is: why are you such a fan of RCC? I'm not sure if you're familiar with Savagegeese, but they're pretty down on self-driving technology, and the increasingly complex and costly tech in modern cars in general:





    These video reviews are a little rambling, but their basic argument is that a lot of the tech in modern cars - both the infotainment and self-driving technology - is a "scam." It's a scam first of all because of hidden tech repair costs over the life of the car. According to Savagegeese, 90% of OEM's have zero plans for software upgrades over the life cycle of their cars, which means that consumers are going to end up paying a lot of money for tech repairs once their car is no longer under warranty. Especially in cars that lack manual nobs, and where the heat and AC are controlled through the touch-screen, this can get prohibitively expensive very fast. For consumers who plan to keep their cars for 7+ years, the analogy that Savagegeese uses is: imagine if you bought a smartphone 7 years ago -- how well would it work today? And it's a scam second of all, according to Savagegeese, because the long-term fragility of self-driving tech will actually make drivers less safe. Given that this self-driving tech is such a complex relationship between cameras, sensors, wifi, GPS location, etc., what happens when one sensor or one camera goes down? What happens when you trust the self-driving tech in snow or freezing rain? What happens when - and I've read about this actually happening on the Ioniq Forum - you're going 60 mph in a tunnel with a car right behind you, a napkin flips up off the road and onto one of your front cameras, the car's pedestrian detection monitor or front collision monitor mistakes this napkin for a person or a vehicle, and your car slams on the brakes? The gist of the argument seems to be that with new self-driving tech, OEM's aren't so much selling safety as the illusion of safety. And I guess I was just wondering what you would make of this argument, or what your feelings are about self-driving tech as it relates to both safety and fuel efficiency in 2017.

    Anyway, sorry for the long list of questions. These are just some things I've been thinking about over the last few months as I've followed this forum. And again, if anyone besides Wayne wants to take up some of these questions, please be my guest - there are some very smart people on this site. Thanks.
    Chris
     
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  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris:

    WOW!!! Amazingly good questions with great well-organized commentary and links to back up your thoughts. Let me be the first to say it is an honor to have you contributing here.

    Let us get started and hopefully I can provide my own thoughts via my own brand of rambling commentary. :)
    It was almost entirely based on a low TCO basis. Here is my explanation of "almost."

    The 2018 Ioniq SEL with the Tech pkg. is going to cost me at least $24k (maximum $2k discount from the $25,960 MSRP for the Ioniq SEL with the Tech, mats, and D&H) + TTL. Keep that price in mind for a few sentences down. Hyundai Execs told me last week they cannot pull the current Ioniq build supply out of Korea as demand in Europe and South Korea are taking everything they can build. I am taking this with a grain of salt as we are quickly moving on to a year on the floor and sales have slid showing there is a problem with U.S. demand due to design, trim content - std. and optional equipment, or cost. Factory's can ramp up to far beyond < 1,000 units per month destined for the U.S. if necessary after just two months, not almost a year. A guess on my part but an educated guess nonetheless.

    [​IMG]

    The following are my own thoughts. What I suspect is supply curtailment in order to keep Sales Days to Turn (just 28-days) at a minimum, true retail pricing at a maximum (averaging just $1k off retail), Corporate and dealership profit at a maximum, and long-term Residuals up which in turn benefits the Ioniq owning consumer immensely.

    Ioniq SEL vs Elantra ECO

    Saying all the above, a 2018 Ioniq SEL as spec'ed is more than $10k higher than the 2018 Elantra Eco as purchased. I have an e-mail contract but no signed contract just yet.

    The Ioniq's ~ 33 percent real world efficiency over the Elantra Eco at 100k miles using a 60 mpg vs. 45 mpg result respectively and an estimated fuel cost averaging $3.50 over the next 5 years shows the Ioniq in a positive light by $1,944.

    18 Elantra Eco -- 100k miles/45 mpg = 2,222 gallons at $3.50 = $7,778
    18 Ioniq SEL -- 100k miles/60 mpg = 1,667 gallons at $3.50 = $5,834

    The Ioniq's current extra $10k up front price ($13.8k vs. $24k) + the 7.75% tax difference on the Ioniq's $24k vs. the Elantra ECO's taxable $17.3k price (+$553) cannot be made up on the $1,944 gas savings no matter how short sighted that calculation may be. As you know, I do not take the fuel savings lightly and each gallon conserved is worth more in the balance than the its cost.

    Moving down the competitive TCO basis ladder further, the 1st gen Sonata HEV and non-HEV Sonata of the same trim and similar equipment are quickly approaching parity. Meaning in 5 or 10 years when an Elantra Eco has 100k + miles on it and the Ioniq SEL with similar miles is ready to be sold/traded in, I suspect they will be worth within $1,000 of one another. They are built off the same basic platform with a different body shell - sedan for Elantra, Hatch for Ioniq - attached. The Ioniq w/ the Tech pkg. however is better equipped as the RCC, AEB, and LDW that the Elantra does not have.

    All told, the 2018 Ioniq SELs TCO is as a guess $7,750 more than the 2018 Elantra ECO as of this moment. That is a whole lot of scratch!

    Ioniq PHEV-29 vs. Elantra ECO

    Moving to the Ioniq PHEV-29, when I posted that I had just setup the purchase for a 17 Prius Prime for my mom just days after the Ioniq PHEV first drive, I was basing that purchase on several items to match my parent’s needs, not my own.

    2017 Toyota Prius Prime for $19,100 + TTL And Ioniq vs. Prius Prime Competitive Comparison

    As mentioned in the second links competitive comparison, I find the Prime’s lack of a middle rear seat, lack of telescopic sun visors, lack of Android Auto, and its shorter person ergonomic design to be huge detriments. At the same time, the Ioniq PHEV-29 must be purchased as a Limited trim with the Ultimate pkg. to receive better (HID) headlamps vs. the Prime’s std. LEDs, and AEB with RCC which all Prime trims include as std. Given my price guesstimates, the Ioniq PHEV “may” come in at $5k more than the Prime and the Prime is more efficient as a std. hybrid.

    All in, I am not expecting a dramatic Hyundai pricing release given the price Hyundai charges for its Sonata PHEV over and above the HEV and the fact that the Ioniq HEV is already running at a steep premium given the steep discounts offered by other OEMs for their HEVs. Prius and Prius Prime. With even higher TCOs, the Ioniq PHEVs expected price even after the Fed TC - for possibly just a week or two after by its release to the public??? – could be just as onerous if not more so than the Ioniq SEL to Elantra ECO comparison directly above!

    When I posted that I had setup the purchase of the Prime on FB, the Director of Hyundai PR added a comment that “This was a big mistake.” I do not know how to take it, but I assume that is because it was a competitor’s PHEV purchase just days after the Ioniq PHEV first drive. Or maybe it was because the Ioniq PHEVs pricing is going to wow us? Since Hyundai did not commit on releasing pricing to me or anyone else in attendance, I am not sure what to think? I hope they are going to wow us on prcing. Fingers crossed on that one.

    I sure would like to have the Harmon-Kardon Clari-Fi system in any car I would drive however. It is really that good but only packaged with the Uber Expensive Limited trim Ioniq HEV and PHEV with the Ultimate pkg.

    Prius Prime PHEV-25 vs. Elantra ECO

    This one is a lot closer on a TCO basis given that $19,100 purchase by my parents includes a Prime Plus with the Blizzard Pearl paint ($395) + All Weather Floor Liners/Cargo Tray ($248.00), Body Side Moldings ($209.00) and Door Edge Guards ($125.00). The last two are useless gimmicks and a waste of $334 imho.

    Since I am a Calif. resident, there is a $1,500 State tax rebate, I am now a registered UBER driver so could take another $750 off my parent’s price - if it were a 5-seater, and in Calif. the Prius Prime receives HOV lane access for the next few years.

    All-in, the 2017 Prius Prime Plus could be purchased for just $16,200 + TTL on $26,150.

    On the TCO front, the Prime actually beats the Elantra ECO at this price by about $0.005/mile or $500 all-in – small delta upfront price, small delta in fuel savings, and large delta in favor of the Prime at resale) but a 4-pasenger Prius Prime cannot be used for UBER, the Prime’s ergonomics for taller drivers is not very good, that half assed half-length sun visor is totally unacceptable, and Toyota’s SW NAVI solution is about the worst out there. Android Auto would fix that…

    Considering all of the above, this is why I think so highly of the 2017/2018 Hyundai Elantra Eco. I thought I had posted it here at CleanMPG.com but after a number of searches, apparently, I did not???

    2017 Hyundai Elantra ECO

    [​IMG]
    Last drive at 70.2 mpg+ from parked to parked at an average speed of 58 mph. Just WOW!​

    I have a church play to attend tonight and will begin another rambling post trying to provide insight into your next few questions when I get back.

    Wayne
     
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  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris12:

    The other few questions within the larger question #1:
    The Elantra ECO is indeed one of those rare vehicles that standout in the thin air. From the Elantra ECO Steady States, I posted the following:

    [​IMG]
    The std. 17 Elantra with its atkinsonized 2.0L Gamma model designation I4 engine is still very efficient but is easily toppled by the Elantra ECO 1.4L GDI-T w/ its heavily atkinsonized Kappa model designation I4 mated to the very efficient 7-speed DCT and the very powerful and efficient Civic 1.5T with its wide ratio CVT.

    On the environmental front, few if any Li-Ion traction batteries are reaching landfills that I know of. I cannot speak for Hyundai but Toyota used to have a bounty on the packs as they are still worth $s despite being well beyond their service life or capability.

    Wayne
     
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  9. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Wayne,

    That's too bad that the Ioniq PHEV may be priced higher than the Prius Prime. I had assumed that because we've been hearing all year from auto journalists about how the Ioniq is "going for the Prius' jugular" -- the Ioniq HEVs are priced at roughly $2K less than the 4th Gen Prius HEVs, and Hyundai has their "conquest offer" of $1,000 off Ioniqs for current Prius owners, and in the UK the Ioniq PHEV is priced several thousand pounds below the Prius Prime (I think they call it the Prius Plug-in over there) -- Hyundai would therefore sell the Ioniq PHEV for at least $2K less than the Prius Prime. Especially since, at least on the east coast, Toyota is offering $3,500 discounts on the Prius Prime, bringing its price down to $23 or $24K. It seems that if Hyundai wants to be at all competitive with the Prime on this -- not to mention meeting their more ambitious goal of "being price-competitive with regular gasoline cars" -- then the Ioniq PHEV has to at least come in at under $25K.

    Also, that 70.2 mpg result on your 78.7 mile trip in the Elantra Eco is amazing. How did you achieve that in a non-hybrid? If the absolute highest highway mpg in the Steady States is 66.3 mpg (at 50 mph), and assuming that any city driving or highway traffic in the Elantra Eco would be a huge drag on fuel efficiency since it doesn't have the hybrid technology to excel at low, stop-and-go speeds, I guess you must have been doing a lot of steady cruising at like 35-45 mph? However you did it, it says good things about that '17 Eco.....
     
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  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris12:

    My thoughts on your next three questions.
    From the 2017 Hyundai Elantra ECOs first drive, I back calculated the mpg during that 23 miles over an hour stop and crawl on the infamous Southern Calif. 405. These drives really really really suck and take a hell of a lot of work and luck to keep the efficiency up. Gone are the days of a FAS at every opportunity as most new cars do not allow it so std. traffic management to the nth degree, DWL as if every ounce mattered, a lot of smart and/or engine braking, and anti-traffic wave accelerations and decelerations.

    71.0 mpg after 5 miles = 0.0704 gallons
    57.2 mpg after 28 miles = 0.4895 gallons
    23 miles on .4191 gallons = 54.9 mpg * the aFCD offset at 0.989 = 54.3 mpg actual over that stretch.

    54 mpg from a non-diesel/non-hybrid in one of those types of long distance nightmare jams you just do not want to ever endure was excellent. This is a pretty good proxy for the city efficiency imho.

    As a counterpoint, this is the type of traffic where a Prius Two Eco breaks 120 mpg, the Prius Prime breaks 105 mpg in CS mode, and the Ioniq HEV breaks 100 mpg.

    On open highway, my previous post showing the 58-mph average speed on the same 65 mph PSL 5/405 plus a mile or so of surface streets but heading in the opposite direction and not having to drive to a Shell to refuel was something that really wowed me.

    In any case, taking the std. 20 percent off those results and a decent minded driver in decent weather conditions should have no problem seeing 43/56 mpg city/highway.

    My first hint that the Elantra ECO "could" be something special was when a Cars.com editor approached me at the 2016 Midwest Automobile Media Association (MAMA) Spring Rally in Elkhart Lake, WI. This editor had just driven a 17 Elantra Eco up from Chicago running 75+ for much of the wide-open Interstates and doing the std. everything wrong when traffic slowed in Chicago and again in Milwaukee. He asked about my thoughts on the ECO trim because in his drive, he achieved an indicated 49 mpg and that is higher than he had ever achieved in anything prior to that date IIRC. I had only driven a very early prototype for a few miles at the short lead in the early spring of 2016 and could not add much other than the Kappa engine design should provide a nice boost over the older but proven Gamma engines in the rest of the Elantra lineup.

    53 to 55 mpg would be optimistic for most. If you are pulling 44 to 45 mpg with the Civic 2.0L, a 50 to 52 lmpg from the Eco would probably not be out of the question. When the weather turns south - read cold temps, the Ioniq would probably fall into the mid 50s and the Elantra Eco into the high 40s as a guess?

    Because I am going to use it for UBER/LYFT with two to 4 people, a lot of very strange routing, more idling than I would ever normally allow, faster accelerations to please the rider(s), and a ton of city driving with the steep hills of San Diego taking it to the woodshed, I am guessing maybe a 47 to 48 lmpg? This is a total guess at this point because I have no idea what kind of efficiency handicaps a Ride Share will force. I have never done it so am guessing at this point?

    Wayne
     
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  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris12:

    My reply crossed your last reply so sorry about that. :)

    Regarding the 4th gen 2017 Prius, it is priced $2k higher at retail when similarity equipped - other than the Prius' std. LEDs, full-speed RCC, LKA, and AHB, but you can pick up Prius Two Eco's for $4k to $4,500 off retail right now. This makes the Prius between $1.5k and $2k less than the Ioniq with Hyundai's own Competitive owner $1k on the hood and another $1k dealer discount.

    Regarding the 18 Ioniq PHEV vs 17 Prius Prime pricing, remember that the Prime Plus MSRP is sitting at $28k incl. D&H. It is that East Coast $3.125k to $3.5k discount that makes all the difference. Adding insult to injury, to buy the not full-speed RCC and HIDs, you have to move into the Ioniq PHEV Limited with the Ultimate pkg. The Ioniq Limited HEV with the Ultimate pkg. retails at $31,510 with mats and D&H. That is way up there. The Ioniq Limited PHEV with the Ultimate Pkg. will probably top $33.5k? Even with the Ioniq PHEVs $4,919 TC good for the final 2-weeks of the year before its possible elimination, it just does not look competitive on a price basis vs. the well-received Prius Prime Plus and that very large $3k+ Toyota rebate sitting on the hood?

    I could and indeed hope I will be eating my words on pricing given the PR Directors comment on the Prius Prime purchase post on FB last week. I would love to see the Ioniq Limited PHEV come in at the same price as the HEV and Hyundai add a few $k sweetner for "early adopters" to make it competitive. I have not seen that kind of aggressive launch pricing from Hyundai yet and I am not expecting it this time either.

    Moving back to the Elantra ECO, that 70.2 mpg indicated/69.4 mpg actual result with a 58 mph average speed shows what this thing may be worth when let loose with far less congested but fast-moving traffic and no slowdowns. Forget the steady states as DWL vs CC really shows. I am trying to remember if there was even a single slow down. Probably down to 40 to 50 mph for a mile or less but nothing major that I remember during that last drive? As fast as that Elantra ECO picked up from 57.1 to 75.6 over that last 54 miles, I was shocked.

    I thought I had back calculated the final 54 miles efficiency result in the review but did not see it. It looks like this.

    75.6 mpg after 82 miles = 1.0846 gallons
    57.2 mpg after 28 miles = 0.4895 gallons
    54 miles on .5951 gallons = 90.7 mpg * the aFCD offset at 0.989 = 89.7 mpg actual over that final 54 mile stretch. That is a ridiculous result for a non-diesel/non-hybrid and damn near matches what the Ioniq Blue HEV could achieve!!!

    There are only four other vehicles that stood out with blow away efficiency to this level. The 2007 Honda Civic iCDTi turbo diesel, the 2012/2013 VW Passat TDI(s), the RAM 1500 with the 3.0L EcoDiesel, and the 2017 Toyota Prius Two Eco. If the 18 Elantra ECO contract holds and I bring it home, I will have an even better feel for its capability when taking it into an area where the Prius reigns.

    Wayne
     
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  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris12:

    Question #5.
    Not nearly as much as this guy because of gentle launches and second holds until third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh are shifted into but it is most certainly there. I do not remember the Enthusiast editors feeling anything like this in the ECO trim since they are on the pedal hard and it downshifts and stays in first until a much higher RPM than any of us will ever experience.

    Just a suspicion but if you are hard on the pedal, it is a 1st gear launch and hold. If you are light, it is a second gear and climbs up from there. It is those that accelerate in the middle where the shift dance probably rears up? Another guess on my part?

    All of the Hyundai/Kia HEVs do this to varying degree as well. The HEV/PHEVs do not have a torque converter so Hyundai uses SW control of the motor and engine output in an attempt to smooth out the 1st to 2nd gear shift. The first to second gear "lurch" can be particularly harsh when it is cold and the engine is first started. Once warmed up or when it higher gears, they all act better but that launch lurch can still be felt if you are paying attention. My wife does not notice it but I do when it is started from cold.

    Wayne
     
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  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris12:

    And finally, number 6.
    I rarely drive with RCC or CC myself due to the FE hit but I know most will. If the RCC is full speed system - will bring the car to a full stop and back up to the set CC speed before the 3-second time out is up, it can reduce driver fatigue as most of the work is done by the Radar and camera. If the system is light on the decel - further ahead awareness than the bar setting, it will improve the average driver’s tendency to run with the wave by creating a small anti-wave like action. I can still bury these systems efficiencies since I can usually see tens to hundreds of cars and trucks ahead and continuously anticipate what the wave is doing now and what it will do 30-seconds out. RCC systems are only looking at the bumper up ahead - some look two cars ahead as they "see" the reflection off the pavement to a car ahead of the one immediately ahead, and all can only see within a 20-degree cone off the nose. People cutting in and motorcycles show the systems safety weaknesses but for the average driver, these systems can reduce stress and if properly tuned, can increase that driver’s efficiency. As you have seen from my previous write-ups, the Prius Prime is the best system I have ever experienced when it comes to soft accels and anticipatory decels of all the systems I have driven to date.

    Regarding complexity, automotive systems are far more robust and regulated than our smartphones. Have you ever booted up an embedded 10-year old car NAVI system? It fires up even though it has been sitting in a car for ten years and been subjected to temps from as low as - 20 degrees F to highs well over 150 degrees in a closed-up car during the summer. Do that to your smartphone and its dead in a year. I am not a fan of the SW controls of audio and HVAC. Read my write-ups on the numerous Honda's that lack audio controls or the Prius Prime Premium or Advanced with the 11" screen and no control knobs. I hate those damned things!!! Most OEMs are getting the message and including knobs and switches or adding them back. The all-new 2018 10th gen Accord is a prime example of the switches and knobs coming back because the consumer hates those display screens w/ SW controls while driving down the road.

    These advanced safety systems have an emergency braking sub routine as well. From a simple warning light to the quick beeps, pre-pressurizing the brakes, and even applying brakes if the driver is still inattentive, the systems should be mandatory for all vehicles. For $500, the increase in safety and lower instance of accidents helps the rest of us continue on our way with less hindrance. There is an IIHS study that has some preliminary stats on the new systems showing a decrease in these types of accidents by an eye popping 60+ percent if I remember the conversation with a RCC engineer with Nissan correctly. I have not looked up the study yet, but he said it is on the IIHS site somewhere. If you find it, please link it for the rest of us. These new cars equipped with RCC and AEB will not auto brake if a napkin lands across a sensor. The sensor will flag and the vehicle will immediately warn the driver that there is a problem and shut down that systems programming moving all the control back to the driver.

    Here is a 2014 Toyota Highlander Hybrid review piece I posted while I was driving between Chicago and Detroit during a snow storm. The Toyota Pre-Collision system in that vehicle is not as good as the latest in the 18 Camry, 17 Prius, and 17 Prius Prime yet see the warning? That is all that happened.

    [​IMG]

    Regarding cost, The Ioniq SELs RCC with AEB and LDW is a $1,000 upgrade. Many OEMs are now down into the $695 range for the same. The Mazda CX-5 adds these advanced safety systems for the $695 as does Subaru's Eye-Sight systems IIRC?

    I will re-read all of this over the weekend as I have to knock out some steady states on the Ridgeline right now, I have a daylong short lead with the Smart ForTwo Cabriolet ED tomorrow, a 05:00 AM flight out of LAX to Boston's Logan on Thursday, pick up the Prius Prime from RI on either Thursday night or Friday morning, drive back to the IL/WI border by Saturday night, and fly back to LAX out of MKE on Tuesday morning at 05:30 am. I will be picking up a Niro for the rest of the year as well as completing the Elantra ECO purchase...

    Wayne
     
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  14. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Wayne, for your detailed thoughts. I'm really curious to hear how the Elantra Eco works out for you long term, assuming the deal goes through. It seems like it especially has a lot of highway fuel efficiency potential. From reading your breakdown above of the various highway trips you took in the Elantra Eco, I'm wondering whether on the highway the Elantra Eco is more like the 1.5 Liter Civic - except with a 5ish mpg improvement on the Civic at most highway speeds - or more like the Prius Two Eco/Ioniq Hybrid Blue (70-80 mpgs at 50-65 mph). The Steady States seem to suggest the Elantra Eco is more like a 5 mpg improvement on the Civic, while some of your highway drives suggest it's more like the Prius/Ioniq. I guess this perhaps speaks to your point that DWL is better than CC. I guess this also means that I need to put in some serious DWL practice, which I still suck at.

    All good points about the tech, particularly the durability of auto tech as compared to smart phones. I don't really know anything about that and will think about what you said.

    Good luck with all the traveling, especially that Prius Prime pick-up. You make a good case for the Prime, above in your reply to my original post, as well as in many other posts. I guess I should probably reconsider that car. Its TCO is comparable to the Elantra Eco, its sticker price with the dealer discounts is outstanding, it's more efficient than the Prius Two Eco in the Steady States, it's probably more efficient than the Ioniq PHEV given the latter's 16 inch tires. Really, the only turn-offs for me are the un-user-friendliness of the infotainment, and that extremely bizarre back end.

    One alternative I've considered is asking any of these Hyundai dealerships to sell me an Ioniq Blue or SEL for the $17-19K "internet price", except without bothering with any of the official discounts. I know this has been mentioned on other threads, but on the east coast these Hyundai dealers are offering "deals" on Blues at $17K and SELs at $19K, which sounds like a steal until you read the fine print: you can only get this "deal" if you are an Uber driver, current Prius owner, recent college grad in the last two years, hurricane survivor, owner and user of specially installed medical mobility equipment in your car, and active service member all at once. Personally, I don't know a lot of Marines who just happen to own a Prius, and just happen to moonlight for Uber on the side, and just happen to have graduated from college in the last two years, and just happen to have a built in wheelchair ramp on the side of their Prius, and just happen to have lost their home to one of the recent storms. But I wonder how some of these dealers would respond if someone said to them: how about you sell me the Blue for $17K, or the SEL for $19K, without these discounts? It's almost the end of 2017, so what are they going to do with these unsold 2017 models come January 1st?

    That said, I would probably go for the Blue, if it wasn't for the road noise issue. Besides the sound deafening material, and the better looking hubcaps, and maybe the power driver's seat, the SEL doesn't seem to warrant the $2-3K markup over the Blue. Has anyone experimented with picking up a Blue, purchasing some after-market SEL hubcaps, and purchasing/making/finding some sound-deadening material and placing it in the cargo area? I've read on the Ioniq Forum that most of the road noise in the Blue seems to come from the back, and some people seemed to suggest that simply stacking some blankets in the cargo space helps with the road noise. But the question is, does it help you enough where you won't go crazy after 150,000 miles?
     
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  15. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Also, speaking of Ioniq PHEV pricing speculations as compared to the Prius Prime, here is an article that came out this summer about Ioniq PHEV pricing in the UK. The article quotes someone named Derek Joyce, apparently the manager of "product public relations" at Hyundai, as saying that it's “much too early for U.S. pricing, but it will be very competitive with the Prius Prime.” As Wayne said, fingers crossed, though I think you're right, Wayne, to have your doubts.

    Also, the entry level of the Ioniq PHEV in the UK (called the "Premium" trim) has smart cruise control.

    http://www.hybridcars.com/hyundai-ioniq-plug-in-hybrid-priced-well-below-toyota-prius-prime-in-uk/
     
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  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris:

    I have completed 100k mile TCO's on a number of efficient cars and the two standouts given the low upfront pricing and overall efficiency are the Elantra Eco and Prius Prime. I picked up the Prime for my parents last week and they like it over and above their Prius v. The standout features are much better central display and improved acceleration pickup. My mom and I especially like the rear end of the Prime with the modern profile swoop and dual wave rear glass. The racetrack rear taillamps and especially the thin Quad LEDs up front are a huge bonus vs. the std. Gen 4 Prius' vertical rear lamps and out there front LEDs with their strangely shaped form.

    2017 Toyota Prius Prime crossing the highest point on I-80 east of the MiIssissippi


    Driving the Prime from the East coast still find its shortcomings bothersome. NO Android Auto meaning the embedded SW NAVI can take up to 30-minutes to accept a correct voice direction. This is extremely frustrating.

    The Short front seat cushions are not comfortable over a 16+ hour day by any stretch.

    The non-extendable sunvisors that cover no more than 1/2 the drivers side window are a royal PIA!!! Driving due west across wetern Indiana with a setting sun to the southwest had me doing all kinds of stuff to keep that sun out of my eyes for over an hour two days ago.

    Wayne
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    As of about 04:30 pm PST, a new 2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO was assigned with my name to its title.

    It ended up at $13,803 + TTL and IL Registration which will occur after the new year.

    When I landed at LAX, I picked up a 17 Kia Niro HEV for this week’s std. review and headed over to Anaheim's Russell Westbrook Hyundai to complete the 18 Elantra ECOs purchase. All was going well as the paperwork was being completed and the first look at the vehicle I already know so well was driven to the front of the store for an inspection before signing any docs. It had a flashing strobe rear brake lamp and a theft prevention system already installed. You do not want to know what these items were being listed at on every Hyundai on their lot - it was a huge profit center - and I asked for them to be removed as they were NOT Hyundai OEM, will cause maintenance and repair trouble - read repair $s - in the future, and would end up blowing out the 18 Elantra Value Edition price after discounts I received from the local Hyundai dealership where we purchased the Sonata Hybrid Limited this past January. After a few uneasy minutes, the GM allowed the stuff to go out at the price we agreed upon over a week ago. I now have to figure out how to remove these unwanted non-OEM electronic add-ons without damaging the 18 Elantra ECO somehow?

    2018 Hyundai Elantra ECO

    [​IMG]

    Pricing detail. My Rebate additions ($5,500) and total cost after tax did not quite match theirs ($6,000 in rebates and $48 more tax) when itemized but came within $48 on the bottom line. I questioned the salesman and finance Mgr. numerous times on the rebate discrepancy and both said since the bottom line worked out, the contracts bottom line is as solid as it gets. The purchase pricing SW package they use created a state tax discrepancy that they will be fixing shortly. They reduced the upfront cost to make up for the SWs incorrect state tax upcharge.

    There was also a small hiccup with my down payment check. I had previously provided a $500 down payment via Discover and wrote a check for the $4952.93 to cover the vehicle cost including Tax but not including the mandatory $10k Hyundai Financing I have to carry for a minimum of 3 months to drive it away. This dealership has recently instituted a third-party check clearing house group who returned an access denied code on my check and would not provide any reason as to why to the dealership or me? I said that should not be a big deal as I will not be picking up the car for almost a week. Cash my check and it will be cleared long before I pick it up after Christmas. They could not do that but would place the remaining $4,952.93 on my Discover! That is fine with me as I receive cash back on my CC and I electronically pay that completely off each month. They knew it would cost them upwards of $150 as well? I reiterated that the cost to their dealership by any CC company was an expense I would not wish upon anyone. I pleaded with the Finance Mgr. to cash my check and in a week, I would pick up the car so as to clear. In any case, they wanted proof of $s in their account this evening so they accepted a large down payment on a CC.

    The last item is that my BoostUp Account balance of $536 went to $0 after the transaction and was not included in the down payment calculation. I am still working on that.

    BoostUp Certificate

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    $0 balance after transaction.​

    Both the Internet Sales MGR. and Finance MGR are both receiving the highest scores on the Hyundai survey I expect to receive next month given their work ethic and character in making this deal happen. Thanks guys.

    My UBER account which I opened over a month ago with its $1,000 off deal and the BoostUp account I created over three months ago with its additional $500 discount provided a very well equipped and super-efficient 2018 Hyundai Elantra in Eco trim that imho cannot be touched for the price or matched in terms of efficiency by any other OEMs non-diesel/non-hybrid offering.

    Since I was alone with the 17 Niro Touring, I will have to pick up the Elantra ECO later this week after my son and his GF arrive from San Francisco for Christmas.

    [​IMG]
    The clean Monroney pdf was posted above. Here is the actual.

    [​IMG]
    As reported numerous times previously, all Hyundai purchases provide $s for Hyundai Hope on Wheels. This one did as well. :)

    Wayne
     
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    And it is now time to accessorize...

    Removal of the Alarm and center brake lamp add-ons are a necessity as I want this car to be NHTSA, DOT, and FVVSS compmiant as well as Hyundai warrantablr without question.

    Since there is only an inflator kit in the ECO, I will be ordering a Elantra ECO specific Mini-Spare with jack kit online. The same Florida Hyundai dealership that supplied the Ioniq Blue with a mini-spare before its record run also supplies the Elantra ECOs for the same price, $209.95 + $42 shipping. I wish it were a standard piece with the ECO but it is not. I will now have 3 Hyundai/Kia inflator kits from the Niro and Ioniq prior to their cross country record runs and now the Elantra ECO. :)

    WeatherTech or other manufacturer all-weather mats for the rear and front passenger side. You just never know when an UBER or Lyft ride will find someone throwing up inside your car.

    12V charged portable Black & Decker car vacuum. Still deciding on which one to buy.

    I would like to find the 17/18 Elantra Limited's chrome Beltline trim. I have seen some aftermarket stuff but am not sold on the quality. If it is a snap on addition, all the better.

    Phone mount(s). Still researching...

    Wayne
     
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  19. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    This is a serious highway weapon. I still don't like automatic transmissions , but I will admit they are sometimes the most efficient.

    Good luck with your new toy !
     
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  20. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    The Elantra Eco has an automated manual. While it is one pedal short of a full floorboard, it does at least offer freedom from the torpid Dynaflow slushiness.
     
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