2018 Honda Accord Hybrid Drivetrain Details

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Alster:

    Good points all.

    Carcus, as you pointed out, the 17/18 Elantra Eco and 17/18 Civic 1.5T could easily do a number on all three on any lengthy distance highway drive. It is the city stuff that hurts both of the non-hybrids in the comparison. The Elantra ECO and Civic 1.5T are also smaller vehicles.

    Trollbait, you made a very good point regarding midsize sedan trunk volumes!!! My wife and I had to skip both the 17 Sonata PHEV and 17 Accord PHEV due to that exact problem even though both could have been purchased for a few thousand $s less with the Fed tax credit and Calif. State Tax rebate. The cargo volumes of both the 17 Sonata and 17 Accord PHEVs were just destroyed by the larger pack in the trunk vs. under the rear seat like the new 18 Accord. My wife would have nothing to do with either and rightfully so. She is a lot smarter than I am most of the time. Just ask her. :D

    The new 2018 Accord Hybrids pack is under the seat so cargo volume is as large as the non-hybrid Accords. 16.7 cu ft for both. No PHEV as that is now the Clarity. Honda learned your lesson the hard way too.

    Wayne
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Our midsize sedan is our long trip car, and the lost trunk space of the plain hybrid was a no go with my Wife.

    Just replaced the 2001 Sable with a 2016 Camry SE.
     
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  3. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Accord Hybrid vs. Clarity PHEV---


    With 16.7 and 15.4 cu-ft of trunk space, the Accord hybrid and Clarity PHEV both have plenty.

    If the 2.0na in the Accord hybrid 'wheezing out above 70 mph' is a problem, then the 1.5t in the clarity might be the solution. -- especially with premium fuel, there is plenty of torque available. ... but the mpg ratings on the clarity are noticeably less, ... that could be the price to pay (?). Even so, at 47 miles EV range -- overall gasoline consumption won't suffer much. The 'price to pay' would be well under $100/yr.

    Will be interesting to see some drive comparisons between the two.

    /Is the PHEV clarity the first 'mass market' turbo-charged hybrid?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  4. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    It is to my knowledge, but then my knowledge stops around the $35k-$40k vehicles, so I had to look. I checked on BMW and Volvo. BMW has one in 2018 so which is earlier? BMW or Honda. Volvo's a 2016 model that has a turbo. It probably wasn't something for efficiency but for more power. Sigh...

    Edit: I also didn't look for plain hybrids, only PHEVs.

    Edit2: found another... plain hybrid but high powered - 2013 BMW ActiveHybrid 3 with a turbo-6

    Edit3: ...or by mass market are you already only looking in my lower price range? :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  5. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Yes (sub 40k-ish), I probably should've said "affordable" ...
     
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  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    For non-plug ins, I think the Jetta was the first with a turbo, at least in the US. The Pathfinder hybrid used a supercharger, and I think that continues with the Rogue.
     
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  7. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Thanks, Trollbait. I didn't even remember the Jetta. Shame on me.
     
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  8. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I drove the Accord PHEV for 2+ years and now driving the Sonata PHEV for last 2 years. I agree Sonata is more comfortable drive, better seats and not nearly as noisy (and bit more cargo for PHEV). The nav system is pretty good too. The Accord Hybrid system is very noisy when you accelerate since the ICE kicks in and revs very high (CVT plays a part in that too).

    That said for me the efficiency of the Accord hybrid system was better than the Sonata: under 60 mph the difference is noticeable (maybe 10-20%) and also going downhill I got much better regen. Above 70 mph they are close. Now that's with PHEV so with hybrid difference might be different and more favorable for Sonata.

    Also I wish they would make Sonata's interior more modern looking (and much needed multiple trip mpg indicators with decimals). I rented an Arteon for 2 weeks in Europe and then coming back to Sonata the difference is huge (well price as well). Although Sonata will easily beat most in this segment how spacious it feels inside. And overall the Sonata is just a really good package.

    I might be moving out of CA again and hard to believe but I'm in same situation again that the Sonata PHEV isn't serviced in most states so not sure if I'd have to sell it again.
     
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  9. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

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  10. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Made me look... on fuelly.

    Quick look at mid sized hybrid sedans, for MY 2017: Camry (34.8), Sonata (39.3), Fusion (44.7)

    Somehow, the 2017 Optima (46.2) did better than the sibling Sonata though the sample sizes are small.

    The 2018 Camry is of course doing much better than the 2017, but just looking at the 2017s, I'm impressed by Honda and Ford and the Kia/Hyundai had potential. I wonder why the previous generation Camry was so much lower? The prior years were only 1 or 2 MPG better. Could the older 2.5 I4 have been so terrible?

    Edit: my quick data lookup above was compromised... bad data from plug-ins were mixed in, in particular the Ford, not sure of the rest. will have to dig deeper...

    Edit2: I don't like the way vehicles are classified in Fuelly... too much variation and dependence on the HUMAN
     
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  11. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Right problem with fuelly or any other reporting site is the huge swings since people drive so differently. Even with a huge sample size, the typical type of driver buying that car might just have an influence. I could imagine Prius drivers to pay more attention to drive efficiently but tough to say.

    I love Wayne's speed to mpg graph. That seems closest to apples to apples:).

    I've been able to drive all 3 but not huge amount of time in Fusion Hybrid. However I'd say Accord Hybrid gets better mpg than Fusion easily, right after it's Sonata. Not sure yet where Camry Hybrid will be. It should improve you'd think from previous gen.

    But also note those differences are pretty small in annual fuel cost. The cost/depreciation is bigger factor there.
     
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  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Looking at Honda's web site seems Hybrid won't be available until 'early 2018'. I noticed that again no height adjustable passenger seats are offered since it says only '4-Way Power Adjustment' and that's the touring model:-(. I guess only Acura's get that and then only in most expensive trim for some reason.
     
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  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Part of Fuelly's problem is that it has an international user base. So there are the engine and trim choices for multiple markets, and sometimes, duplicates of choices get ported in with the multiple vehicle databases being used at once. It can be confusing when making a vehicle profile.

    The site also isn't set up for bi-fuel cars, including plug ins, but then many PHEV owners don't care about electric usage.
     
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The updated 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring trim review begins...

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring

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    First fill just moments after picking it up from the Press Fleet Handlers office in Torrance, CA.​

    First impressions... It is definitely a luxurious ride with more interior and rear seat leg room than a Sonata, Camry or Avalon, a very well controlled ride no matter if corner carving or simply cruising down the Interstate. The FE is up. Not so much in the city but its highway FE appears to have been improved despite similar EPA results to the recent past. From the 2020 Honda Insight Review, I would give the nod to the 2020 Accord as it comes very close to the Insight around town and beats it handily on the Interstate. How could it do that with a 48/47 mpg rating vs the Insights 51/45 mpg rating?

    [​IMG]

    With increased power, the Accord does not rely as heavily on its heavily atkinsonized 143 hp and 129 lb-ft of torque (212 system hp) 2.0L I4 driving 3,428 lbs vs the Insight's 151 system HP on tap driving 3,078 lbs. While climbing even a 1 percent grade or accelerating, the Insight is revving up creating a lot of raucous and consuming a lot of fuel whereas the Accord is beginning to rev up only when really piling on the coals for a 2 percent grade or higher acceleration rates.

    So how does it compare to the 2018 – 2020 Camry Hybrid XLE/SE or 2017 – 2019 Sonata Hybrid Limited? It will easily best the group in the city with only the stripper Camry LE. On the highway, it is a lot closer. I was originally giving the 2017 Sonata Hybrid the edge given the high rev up of the 2018 Accord while driving between Phoenix and San Diego over the 4,200 ASL Laguna Mountain range. The Accord really got its @$$ kicked on that climb!

    Most however are not climbing mountains but simply driving day in and day out between Points A and B. In the average driving scenario, the Accord Hybrid tops its main competitors.

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring – First Full Tank Refuel

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    58.8 mpg over 700.0 miles indicated -- 708.2 miles on 12.078 gallons = 58.6 mpg actual.​

    As anyone here has seen my writeups on the capless refueling systems from both Honda and Ford, I am not a fan. More of a critic in fact – possibly the only journalist that dislikes the damn things??? – as the Honda’s tend to grab onto the nozzles and will not let them go. The 2020 suffered just like the 2018 but with a few 20-degree rotations around perpendicular, handle releases.

    The second problem is “Are you full?” I do my best to knock out an aFCD calibration in order that the steady states are as accurate as possible. Just one tank does not really cut it either. With the 2020 Ford Explorer Hybrid Review, we calibrated that aFCD over 3-full tanks! Well, I guess we can run 2 tanks through the Accord Hybrid but not without covering over 1,400 miles in just 7-days. That is a lot of driving beyond buying a new car for myself (Hot Deal – New 2020 Toyota Prius Prime LE for $16,529 + TTL), and completing the leg work for a possible Lightweight Aluminum Open Car Trailer(s) and Mods Guinness World Record drive.

    Even after two full tanks I am still am not entirely confident I have it locked in given the capless refuel system not allowing me to see a full top off. I filled until I had some fuel pouring from the capless refuel opening – that pisses me off as well!!! The Odometer offset was found from the first calibrated drive with 700.0 indicated miles after 708.2 miles were driven per the Garmin.

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring – Second Full Tank Calibration

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    1425.4 actual miles on 24.643 gal = 57.8 mpg vs 59.0 mpg indicated providing a 2.0 percent negative offset.​

    During those 1,425 miles, I actually did some comparison with 200-miles of back to back with our own 38/43/40 mpg rated 2017 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid in Limited trim.

    When launching from a stop or at slow speeds and the engine fires up, the Sonata has a distinct and quite audible engine growl. The Accord Hybrid is far more muted. With CC set at between 60 and 65 mph over 200-miles of San Diego rush hour and non-rush hour traffic, the Accord Hybrid consistently provided between 57 and 59 mpg indicated. We now know that to be 56 to 58 mpg actual. The 17 Sonata Hybrid on the other hand was provided a consistent 54 mpg indicated or 52.5 actual result. Actual average speeds were in the low 40 mph range given the heavy traffic experienced around this area. This back to back did show how the Sonata Hybrid’s EPA highway is a bit short of actual results albeit the Accord Hybrid still took the Hyundai down with a significant margin. The Accord Hybrid highway number is still suspect.

    The Accord Hybrids Radar CC was only slightly less reactive than the Sonata’s indicating how far Honda has come since the 2014 Accord Hybrid and 2016 Civic Advanced Safety introductions. Those original Honda systems were atrocious but today, they are in the top 25 percent. Imho, Toyota is still first, Hyundai/Kia second, and Audi/VW tied with the Honda Accord Hybrid for third. A pleasant surprise given where they came from.

    LKA? The 17 Sonata Hybrid has an LKA system but it really is a simple Lane Departure warning with little feedback or ability to bring the vehicle to center. The 2020 Hyundai’s are some of the best in the business with lane following and departure warning if the 2020 Elantra Limited we drove a few weeks ago is any indication of the rest of the lineup. The Honda is right there with little ping pong effect and only a small binary like movement of the wheel when moving towards the lane edge(s) on either side. The Honda does provide a very aggressive shake of the wheel when the Departure Warning is activated however. 2020 Toyota’s LKA system are still kind of non-existent. The Toyota systems may detect the road edge and when crossing will provide some correction but they are $h** by comparison.

    BSM? The 2017 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Limited system provided more warning than the 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring. Meaning the system was looking back about two car lengths behind the Sonata vs just behind the in the Accord. It also warned of a car impinging into that area – accelerating in the opposite lane and coming up fast – further back.

    RCTA? I did not do any measured tests but it felt like our 2017 Sonata Hybrid Limited detected vehicles further off the rear corners than the Accord Hybrid Touring did.

    All told, the 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring advanced safety equipment is better than the 2017 Hyundai Sonata’s but only due to the lack of a real LKA system. Looking at our experience with Hyundai’s 2020 systems, Honda has a little more work ahead of it. Vs Toyota, the Honda LKA system is vastly superior, the RCC slightly less functional and harsher during accels, with RCTA about the same.

    Next up the steady states…

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring Steady States

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    12:30 AM on Monday morning just moments before the Steady State data collection.​

    I hope most of you were sleeping at this ungodly hour prior to another two hours of road work ahead. ;)

    I will post the steady state results with the 2.0 percent negative aFCD offset shortly.

    Wayne
     
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  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring Speed vs FE

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    Temps between 46 and 50 degrees throughout the NB an SB data measurement period. Winds were calm over the 2.5 hours of data collection. Indicated vs Actual speeds between 50 and 65 mph were pretty close to spot on. At 70 mph actual, the Accord Hybrid Touring’s speedometer was indicating 69 mph

    The Speed vs FE EPA Highway Crossover based on a straight-line analysis between 60 and 65 mph indicates the Accord Hybrid falls below its EPA highway result at just 62.8 mph. That is really short of the std. 67.5 mpg crossover and if I did not know better, I would say the Accord Hybrid’s EPA highway should be rated more along the lines of 44 to 45 mpg. I thought the shortfall may be due to tire and rim sizes but the 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid, EX Hybrid, EX-L Hybrid, and Touring trim Hybrid all ride on P225/50 R17 Michelin Energy Saver A/S’, about the most fuel-efficient tire you can buy today and all the same size. That does not account for it. The 3342 to 3428 lbs between the std. Accord Hybrid and Touring trim one would not account for that level of falloff either. As discussed since our first drive of Honda’s two-motor system back in 2014, that rev up at higher speed with any small ascent really knocks the Accord back. While my NB and SB segments all end at the exact same elevation, there are two grades of no more than 2 percent within and on those slight grades, the Accord did what the Honda Two-Motor system has always done. It revs. Not nearly as much as the Insight but it is still audible and appears to show up in the speed vs FE results.

    The average driver is not on CC at 70 to 75 mph and the overall efficiency results are excellent and maybe even the best mid/full-size car available today. I have to complete the residuals and TCO before I can make that determination but for those that are setting on high highway speed CC for hours, the Accord Hybrid is probably not for you as the Camry and Sonata Hybrids will provide less consumption and a lot less drone during any climb.

    Wayne
     
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The 2020 Toyota Prius Prime LE Purchase Agreement, Rebate(s), out of state taxation, Odometer statement, and equipment paperwork just arrived so I have to run to the bank and then to the DMV before it closes. I also have to place a ton of miles on the Prime Limited for its review as well. I will finish up the Accord Hybrid conclusions later this evening when I get back or tomorrow sometime after I have placed some huge miles on the Titanium Glow "thingie" that is sitting in the garage right now. ;)

    2020 Toyota Prius Prime Limited

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    A few more paragraphs to touch upon before we close the 2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Review out. In this instance, how about a direct comparison between the award-winning Accord Hybrid and one of if not the best mid/full-size low-priced sedans in the industry. That being the Sonata Hybrid.

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid (L) vs 2017 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid (R)

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    Drivers and passenger side (L - R) rear seat leg and knee room comparison.​

    One aspect of a vehicles overall feel is the rear seats. Is it cramped, ok, or does it provide a more luxurious experience thanks to the smooth rear seating surfaces (reasonably soft leather for both in this case), seat comfort (the Accord's more angled seatback and softer foams are the winner here), and leg and knee room (the Accord bests the Sonata by about an inch and three inches respectively).

    While close, it is a bit more comfortable to sit in the back of the Accord Hybrid than the Sonata hybrid for longer periods. This is the 2016 - 2019 Sonata Hybrid I am comparing. For 2020, the all-new Sonata Hybrid was provided with another 1.4" but the front to back leg room (added) appears to have dropped a total of 2.6 inches when considering the spec. I have not sat in the 2020 Sonata Hybrid yet so the specs could be deceiving.

    2020 vs 2016 - 2019 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Wheelbase and Front/Rear Seat Leg Room: 111.8 vs 110.4 in and 46.1/34.8 vs 45.5/38.0. In other words, you have to give the 2020 Accord Hybrid the easy win here.

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring Front Interior

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    Moving up front, the 2020 Accord Hybrid has the edge over the 2016 - 2020 Sonata Hybrid and I would say over the 2018 - 2020 Camry Hybrid as well. The 16 - 19 Sonata front seats are ever so slightly more comfortable for taller drivers but the Accord's faux wood inserts across the dash and into the doors, soft leather, and well laid out controls take the win. It is just a nicer place to sit and drive in.

    2016 - 2019 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Interior

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    2018 - 2020 Toyota Camry Hybrid Interior

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    The only real competitor in this space is the all-new 2020 Sonata Hybrid whose non-hybrid counterpart just won an Auto Trader 10-Best interior award 2-days ago.

    2020 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Interior

    [​IMG]

    Remember that luxury "feel" angle I mentioned above? Neither the Accord Hybrid, the Camry Hybrid, or the all-new 2020 Sonata Hybrid offer a full panoramic sunroof option. The 2016 - 2019 Sonata Hybrid does and thus receives the nod for something the rest just do not offer or offer anymore.

    Moving to infotainment, I have discussed the Accord's systems in detail above. In the Big 3 comparison, the Camry falls short although I have not driven the updated 2018 - 2020 Camry with Android Auto finally included. I have driven the 2020 RAV4 Hybrid with the Android Auto system and it still misses on many levels. The Accord is better but is nowhere near as complete and easy to use as the Hyundai Android Auto or base systems. If only ...

    Adding up the tally, the 16 - 19 Sonata wins but only because of the Panoramic sunroof, slightly more comfortable front seats, and an infotainment system that works. The Accord's to die for rear seating and better looking well laid out interior bits is right on its heels. Camry? Nope.

    Wayne
     
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    When it comes to safety, Honda always gets this right as they usually take the top crash test protection ratings with perfect scores across the board. However, this year the IIHS is now including Headlamp reach, view to the sides through a sharp and gradual curve, and glare with both low and high beams. For the first time in some time, the Accord did not achieve the Top Safety Pick + rating due to the headlamp illumination testing shortfall.

    2020 Honda Accord IIHS Top Safety Pick

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    Trim level(s) include LX, Sport, EX, EX-L and Hybrid

    Low-beam headlight type: LED reflector
    High-beam headlight type: Halogen reflector
    Curve-adaptive? No
    High-beam assist? Yes

    Overall rating: Average

    Low beams - On the straightaway, visibility was good on both sides of the road. On curves, visibility was good on the gradual right curve and fair on the sharp right and both left curves.

    The low beams created some glare.

    High beams - On the straightaway, visibility was good on the right side of the road and fair on the left side. On curves, visibility was good on the gradual right curve and fair on the sharp right and both left curves.

    High-beam assist compensates for some limitations of this vehicle's low beams on the straightaway, on both left curves and on both right curves.

    And rarely do you see the top most trim falling behind the lesser trims in anything let alone safety. The Touring trims std. LEDs falls short.

    Trim level: Touring
    Low-beam headlight type: LED reflector
    High-beam headlight type: LED reflector
    Curve-adaptive? No
    High-beam assist? Yes

    Overall rating: Marginal

    Low beams - On the straightaway, visibility was good on both sides of the road. On curves, visibility was good on both right curves, fair on the sharp left curve and inadequate on the gradual left curve.

    The low beams created some glare.

    High beams - On the straightaway, visibility was good on the right side of the road and inadequate on the left side. On curves, visibility was fair on both right curves and inadequate on both left curves.

    High-beam assist compensates for some limitations of this vehicle's low beams on the straightaway, on both left curves and on the gradual right curve.

    In practice here in Southern CA, the Interstate highways are usually lit up like runway at LAX and there is no issue. I was fine with the LEDs including their AHB as that was quick enough although they do not compare to the old school BMW HIDs from a decade ago.

    Moving to the NHTSA, the Accord Hybrid excelled at everything.

    2020 Honda Accord Hybrid NHTSA 5-Star Crash Test Rating

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    In any case, if in an accident, the 2020 Accord Hybrid will do everything to give up its life for yours as the high crash test ratings attest. By comparison, the 2020 Hyundai Sonata achieved an IIHS TSP rating and also missed the + rating due to its overall headlamp scores. The 2018 - 2020 Camry Hybrid did receive the Institutes highest TSP+ rating but only in the XLE Hybrid Trim with the adaptive steering LEDs.

    On the NHTSA Crash Tests, all three achieved 5-star ratings in everything but rollover which is a static measurement.

    Wayne
     
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