2018 Honda Accord vs. 2018 Toyota Camry. And the Winner is ... Not by a nose but by a tail!

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Wait.............. you LIKED the CrossTour ? And yes , VW cheated. Does that mean we don't give them a second chance ? Some of their petrol cars seem to be pretty good.
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    First, I don't buy European models in the US, and the GM and BMW diesels have passed the EPA's closer scrutiny.

    Second, the EU tests and regulations are less strict than the US's. Most of the cheating done there was through legal loopholes. I don't like it, but part of the blame is on the regulators and government there. VW blatantly broke the law in the US. Ironically, their diesels are one of the least polluting on the road in Europe.

    And also cheaper brands. They are off my list.

    VW's cheating did far more damage than just increase emissions. They dragged down diesel's reputation, which is already low in the US. I want to see diesel cars succeed, because renewable diesel seems more likely than renewable gasoline at this point.

    Then how many here would have wanted a diesel Accord in 2005? Without VW cheating, Honda might have decided not to try. With it, Honda was set for failure in the attempt. We haven't gotten the SkyActiv diesel for the same reasons that Honda pulled the plug on the Accord diesel, they couldn't pass emissions while maintaining efficiency and performance without SCR.

    I like what I see in what they are doing with mild hybrids, but there are plenty of other petrol cars to consider. They had an advantage in the US with their diesels. They cheated to keep that going. they don't have that in petrol.

    I might consider one of their plug ins, but what is now available isn't compelling.

    We almost ended up with the parents' CrossTour. It is just a slightly bulkier looking Accord, and we haven't gotten an Accord hatchback or wagon in ages. I just would have dreaded getting new tires for it.
     
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  3. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    My daughter had a giant crush on the Accord wagon from the 90's. Too bad Americans "don't want station wagons".
     
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  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    I've actually seen an older Accord hatchback, guessing a '90s, a couple times when going out for lunch. Same profile as the CrossTour.
     
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  5. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    The original Accord (1979?) was a hatchback. The sedan came a bit later. Not really sure when they stopped making a hatch for our (North American) market.
     
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  6. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    But without the expensive goofy tires and SUV pretensions.
     
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  7. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    "Goofy"................ best word EVER to describe the CrossTour , lol.
     
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  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    I'll add 'filter feeder' if we expand the discussion to the Venza.
     
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  9. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    I happen to like the shape of the Venza. I think a Camry hybrid powertrain plus plug-in in the Venza would be a nice alternative to a Highlander hybrid. Or just think of it as a Camry wagon if they lowered it a bit. :) My eyes may have glazed over finer details since I don't see the 'filter feeder' reference. Something like a catfish?

    Edit: Oh, I see it now. I must not have paid attention to the front end in a while. I don't remember all that chrome. Oh well. I like the proportions of the back. :)
     
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The Venza is like the CrossTour in that they are wagon or hatchback version of the brand's midsize sedan that have been 'dressed up' with large wheels and goofy SUVish styling. The Freestyle/Taurus X might also be grouped with them, and none of them are available now. The Subaru's Outback and Crosstrek have been more successful, and the fact that the styling didn't appear to be trying to distance the car's from their sedan roots.

    Why is it that the Europeans, and maybe Cadillac, are the only ones secure enough to offer a wagon/hatchback version of a car in the US and simply call the car what it is?
     
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  11. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    The Venza was attractive at least, though I found it fairly unappealing upon driving it. Needlessly harsh and IMHO no better materials inside than my 20 year old Civic.

    Cad had withdrawn its CTS wagon and the Euros offer a shadow of what they did wagonwise even a decade ago. Europeans are going SUV too, as odd as that sounds.
     
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  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    "First, I don't buy European models in the US, and the GM and BMW diesels have passed the EPA's closer scrutiny"

    I think you forgot about the GM scandal which was far worse. And that's probably what will happen eventually to vw. People will forget.

    Venza is not really a wagon but crossover which are fastest growing segment. Guess they had better replacements.
     
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  13. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I'm calling the Venza a station wagon. But a big , bloated , heavy, thirsty station wagon.

    The Camry Hybrid drivetrain would help a lot. Also , MUCH smaller tires than those fatties that come on it now.
     
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  14. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Toyota offers a thing I call the Prius station wagon. How do you like it?
     
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  15. kbergene

    kbergene Active Member

    Leased a 2014 Prius V. It was my wife's primary vehicle. She just drives; no hypermiling, runs the A/C anytime the temp is over 50, runs the defrost anytime its under 50, and she still got lifetime 42 MPG.

    I found it to be a heavier, slower version of that generation's Prius liftback. There's a small lag in between hitting the accelerator and when the engine engages that some will find frustrating; I imagine Toyota added it to increase EPA ratings.

    The modest amount of driving I did - and I wouldn't call it real hypermiling - I found it easy to get 55+ MPG. (and not get honked at :) )

    I was happy to have leased it, since at the time the residual was crazy high, and since automotive technology and safety were improving so fast.
     
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  16. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    So I guess that makes the Prius V a minivan. :)
     
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  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The least attractive angle of the all-new 2018 Accord is its straight on profile. In this case, it is a Sport trim with the 2.0T. Notice the cabin was pushed rearward, the character line droops into the rear lamps, and that rear overhang looks out of balanced to me? I sure hope Honda's usually excellent and overachieving 1.5L-T mated to the CVT drivetrain makes up for it. #FingersCrossed.

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  18. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I do like MY Prius station wagon , lol. It swallowed my giant-ass Klipsch speakers , in the boxes, when I brought them home from work (where they were shipped to). It swallowed the Giant 27.5 mountain bike. It EASILY accepts the Trek 26" .
    I originally wanted the Prius c , but the enormous discounting on the "station wagon" swayed me. Since April 2015 , I have about 56K miles. Apart from one tire destroyed ( road hazard) , nothing has gone wrong. I will soon be retired from my way-too-long commute and will start driving a fraction of the 24K miles per year I have been doing. This car could last longer than Edwin.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Which one? The converted gasoline to diesel engines. That one still gets dragged out in discussions, and part of the reason for diesel's low rep in the US. VW was also using the lower end of a gasoline block in the diesels during that time too. The coal rolling is the worse for diesels. Effing fools.

    I'm sure the public will forget, but I won't

    If by better replacements, you mean the models stealing Venza sales, then yes.:)

    For the majority buying them, crossovers and SUVs are really no different than a wagon. The difference between the Outback and Legacy wagon was ride height. One was a car under EPA, and the other a truck. We can come up with different labels, but that isn't going to change how these cars are being used.
     
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  20. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Yes, but their engine was strong enough.
     
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