2018 Honda Accord vs. 2018 Toyota Camry. And the Winner is ... Not by a nose but by a tail!

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Oct 1, 2017.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] Toyota and Honda’s most important offerings vie for bragging rights in this head to head battle for "Best of the Best."

    Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – Sept. 28, 2017

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    2018 Honda Accord Touring w/ the 1.5T I4 mated to a CVT – $34,675 to start incl. $875 D&H Charge while offering owners a 29/35 mpg city/highway rating.

    2018 Toyota Camry XSE w/ the 2.5L I4 mated to an 8-speed AT – $33,464 incl. the Audio and Power Sunroof pkg., mats, and $895 D&H charge while offering owners a 28/39 mpg city/highway rating.

    Anaheim, California -- While at the OC Auto Show, Honda's were being moved onto the show floor was a 2018 Honda Accord Touring trim with its full Monroney on display. The 192 hp and 192 lb-ft. of torque 1.5L-T mated to the CVT provided the large sedan a mediocre 29/35 mpg city/highway rating.

    We have experienced more times than any care to count that Honda's EPA ratings are usually underrated. Still, the 35-mpg highway result stands out as rather mediocre in today’s hotly contested environment. It appears the 1.5L-T uprate to 192 hp from the Civics’ 174 hp 1.5L-T possibly gutted this excellent mills overall efficiency. A larger and heavier car is surely not helping matters which could explain some of the fall off but an almost 17 percent falloff from the Civics 42 mpg highway rating? That is a lot of pump visits going forward.

    2018 Honda Accord at the Orange County Auto Show

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    Both vehicles are based on 111" wheelbases providing class leading leg and knee room providing much more than their predecessors. Both provide ample performance and feature content. Lack of Android Auto an Apple Car Play notwithstanding on the Camry was a Toyota mistake as was the lack of the same on LX and Sport trimmed Accords which hurts both cars imho.

    Where the rubber meets the road...

    The Exterior(s)

    The Camry receives a higher grade for exterior proportions.

    2018 Honda Accord Touring

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    Not bad.

    2018 Toyota Camry XSE

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    Meh...

    2018 Toyota Camry XLE

    [​IMG]
    Meh but more cohesive side to side.​

    The 2018 Accord's flat face and tall upper chrome bar grille with integrated wraparound lamps has an edge on the 2018 Camry' XSE mesh and LE/XLE thin horizontal bar grille front ends. No question here.

    The 2018 Accord Touring 19" alloys - I think they are 19's? - with low profile tires, lower rocker panel cutout, and chrome trim insert that swoops up through the rear quarter panel are better looking. The lower profile is really sharp and better looking in person than the pics portray.

    The Accord's upper rear profile and rear end do not work well with the rest of the car. The profile's upturned chrome trim from the upper day light opening (DLO) transitioning to horizontal line into an expanded chrome section just behind the small rear quarter panel glass of the C-Pillar - I am not giving the Accord a D-Pillar here even though it looks like the case - like the Odyssey and the seemingly large rear overhang unbalances the car front to back. A lack of a clean chrome beltline does not help in this regard. A simple chrome trimmed day light opening (DLO) all the way around without that extension would have helped.

    2018 Honda Accord Rear Exterior

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    Accord's badging is invisible, the rear lamps are too tall, and bulge out into the slipstream.

    2018 Toyota Camry XLE Rear Exterior

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    The "C A M R Y" chrome badging and thin rear lamps stand out. A more elegant rear end including better balanced proportions front to rear.

    2018 Hyundai Sonata Limited Rear Exterior

    [​IMG]
    From a branding perspective, the new Hyundai Sonata rear design is the most modern and integrated of the three imho.​

    Moving to the rear fascia, the Accord lacks any presence up top as the logo's and trunk face are nondescript and the thicker taillamps are not as modern. The lower diffuser with integrated dual exhausts and center body color trim provides a segment leading attractive touch although too low to grab attention.

    The Interior(s)

    The Accord has the edge but not without caveats.

    2018 Honda Accord Touring Interior

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    Kudo's for the safe bet Honda designers and product planners took on the all-new 10th gen Accord’s interior. At the same time, there is not much new. The floating 8” display audio touchscreen is modern in appearance and from the black “look” of the non-powered up car and supplied pics of the lit-up display, it appears to have higher contrast than the Camry’s all-new 8” display which provided harsh reflections under some very specific exterior lighting conditions. In execution however, the Accord’s floating display looks like it was added on at the last minute and does not integrate well with the rest of the dash. Fortunately, Honda did add both volume and tuning knobs so that controversy has been laid to rest. A tap to synch location on the dash now supposedly makes pairing a breeze. Honda's infotainment on paper specs have always looked good on paper but on the road, have proven to be buggy due somewhat to out of date OS back ends and poor coding integration. Maybe that problem is cured with the all-new 10th gen Accord?

    The Accord’s high-end wood trim inserts did not feel fake and aesthetically looked like a higher end luxury car on first appearance. In addition, the three spoke wheel had a gap in the lower spokes that you could get your fingers into that the all-new 2018 Camry wheel did not. Toyota missed the boat on this one.

    2018 Toyota Camry XLE Interior

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    The more modern and dare I say risky Camry center dash with cascading central disapply surround intersects does not look as nice at first glance but after a few minutes, I liked the three-dimensionality of the contours over the Accord’s “safe” horizontal line approach. In particular, the Camry’s passenger side insert looks and feels like a high cost hologram. The Camry’s small long thin audio control buttons lose out to the Accord’s more robust and more standard larger knobs and buttons despite having a cleaner appearance.

    Where the Camry takes the lead is wheel controls. Long gone is the Toyota CC stalk thankfully, and the control switches are laid within their own surrounds providing a bit more tactile feel and less side to side movement than the Accords. A personal preference here but it is an area the Camry does not receive the credit it is due imho.

    Seating is also personal, and the Accord receives a slight edge due to better lower thigh support. The Camry for less intrusive bolster edges. Neither match the Sonata’s or Passat's simple and more comfortable seat geometry and contours however. I threw that one in as a curve ball in the hope that both OEMs will improve their seats going forward.

    2018 Honda Accord trunk

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    Almost 17 cu. ft. of trunk space is huge but the wheel well shrouds cut into usable volume.

    2018 Toyota Camry trunk

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    15.1 cu. ft. trunk by comparison. Smaller volume but more usable width and a flat floor.​

    The Drivetrain(s)

    Where it gets interesting is the Camry's normally aspirated (non-turbo-charged) 206 hp and 186 lb-ft. of torque 2.5L mated to the standard 8-speed AT in the XSE is surely a more reliable engine/drivetrain while offering more performance, better efficiency, and a lower cost. The Accord's somewhat low EPA highway numbers were a surprise if they are in fact actual final results. A big "IF" here. I am not even talking about the 29/41 mpg rated 2018 Camry L trim with the 203 hp I4 mated to the same 8-speed AT.

    2018 Toyota Camry 2.5L I4

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    I do not have pics of the 2018 Accord's 1.5L-T as both display vehicles hoods were locked down.

    If Honda is going to use the 16/17 Civics’ Radar Cruise Control (RCC) system, it will fall woefully short of the "best in the world" 2017/2018 Prius/Camry RCC system.

    Adding, Camry's have always been able to be picked up for less than Accord's with similar trim and equipment. Lacking the OEM cost of the turbo, plumbing, and engineering, I am sure Camry has a $300+ OEM cost advantage on the Accord as well. The retail pricing bears this out.

    In the midsize segment, efficiency, std. safety, and general appearance go to the 2018 Camry. Driver comfort, std. infotainment, and price go to the refreshed 2018 Sonata. Aggressive front end and "cool alloys" go to 2018 Accord. I have not yet driven the Accord but like all popular midsize sedans, 98 percent never explore the edge of the envelope. Even when they do, the new Camry is no slouch in the twisties either.

    All in, it has been a long time coming but I am giving the all-new 28/39 mpg rated 2018 Camry XSE the nod over the 2018 Honda Accord Touring. This is a big deal as I am rating the new Camry the better vehicle over the new Accord for the first time IN FOREVER! And this comes from a former Accord owner!

    As we approach the Accord's final spec release, it is the hybrid segment where war is going to be waged for consumer acceptance among efficiency enthusiasts. And this is where the all-new Accord may still come out on top. Until the 51/53 mpg city/highway rated 2018 Camry Hybrid LE was introduced, the 49/47 mpg rated 2017 Honda Accord Hybrid was the most efficient mid-sized sedan available to us in the U.S. Pricey and raucous at higher speeds, it was still darn efficient below 65 mph. Will the all-new 10th gen Accord Hybrid using a reworked second gen, heavily atkinsonized, 40+ percent thermodynamically efficient 2.0L I4 paired with electric motors with no heavy rare-earth metals, it "may" topple the now class leading 2018 Camry LE Hybrid? The outcome of that battle is yet to be determined as the all-new #2018HondaAccord and #2018ToyotaCamry continue to send salvo after salvo of rounds at one another to achieve midsize segment supremacy. Stay tuned as the winner from the consumers perspective is far from over.

    And a parting shot across the bow. What the all-new 2018 Accord Hybrid needs to beat.

    51/53 city/highway mpg rated 2018 Toyota Camry Hybrid LE first measured drive

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    An 82.7 mile morning rush hour commute on the infamous Southern California 5/405 between Carlsbad and Torrance.​
    #Honda #Accord and #Toyota #Camry
     
  2. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Wayne,

    I have no idea what has been going on at Honda over the last ten years but someone needs to tell them that retro styling is a thing of the past with the Accord.
    They got it right in the new Civic this time, but we all remember the last make over. What was it one or two years before a total redo of the bland Civic which is totally unheard of in the automobile industry?

    The Accord isn't a bad looking car but it looks like something that was left in the design studio back in 2012.

    Wayne I got the same impression with a 2017 Prius loaner that you got with the new Camry. It was different on the inside, and at first I wasn't too thrilled but after a few hours it grew on me.

    For the record I'm not a fan of the 1978 Cylon helmet grill treatment on the new Camry.

    Al
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Al:

    Good analysis of Honda's hits and misses over the past few years.

    As I was circling the all-new 2018 Accord parked within the Honda footprint and then the all-new 2018 Camry in the Toyota area, I was beginning to dislike both vehicles open mouthed front grilles. Remember it was Ford copying Aston Martin that started this large flat grille opening with Audi jumping on the bandwagon almost immediately afterwards. To this day, I have to give the Ford team the edge for cutting edge front end design that is not overbearing. Even today the 2017 Ford Fusion gets my vote for best looking front end in this lava hot competitive midsize segment.

    2017 Ford Fusion Energi

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  4. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne, actually I think Audi had this big grille before more than a decade ago (see netcarshow for history). At that time I know people were not in love with that:). It could be argued both ways who copied who, but for interiors it's more evident that some carmakers are copying Audi's center layout. E.g. Mazda for a while and Honda seems now to be taking cue's as well including that fixed screen that's sticking out. I miss the more unique futuristic looking Honda interior.

    It seems almost predictably this segment is getting more boring with each generation. We lost another coupe and these 2 designs aren't exciting and we're getting the usual improved specs only. Maybe the Arteon can bring back some more interesting design here being a true practical liftback.

    The Accord Hybrid still seems interesting but I wish they wouldn't have cut the fuel tank size again by 2-3 gallon. Driving now the Sonata PHEV and that gives me easily 600+ mile range (despite that's a PHEV and not a Hybrid).

    I haven't tested new seats but my experience was also that Sonata & Passat had the best supporting seats. Also Honda never had passenger side height adjustable seats, not sure if they improved that but annoyance for me especially if you go highest trim.

    Luke
     
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  5. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2012 PiP, 2014 C-MAX Energi, 2017 Prime

    We can probably blame Lexus for that grille. IMO, ugly then, ugly now. Another reason to move toward EVs... can eliminate most/all grille work. :D
     
  6. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

  7. fishnrib

    fishnrib Christian

    “Long gone is the Toyota CC stalk”
    I absolutely love the CC stalk on my Sienna as it’s like resting your finger on the trigger of a gun as I rest my arm on the arm rest. No need for auto cruise control as I don’t have to move my hand off the steering wheel to make changes in speed.
     
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  8. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2012 PiP, 2014 C-MAX Energi, 2017 Prime

    I would like the stalk more if it did not move with steering angle.
     
  9. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I don't need to take my foot off the accelerator to make minute and precise changes in speed.

    But I have to admit that on a trip more than four hours, which rarely happens these days , I will use the cruise ( on flats ).
     
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  10. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    arteo.jpg Just arrived in Germany and pure coincidence ended up getting a new loaded Arteo that I just mentioned. Really nice car. Full digital gauge cluster with great contrast. It's a diesel so got pretty good highway mpg so far close to 50 mpg (but still not fan of diesel since still noisier at low speeds and mpg goes down quickly in city compared to hybrids).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2017
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  11. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    arteoFront.jpg Oh I forgot here's a picture of the front which is I think less objectionable to most. Not sure yet if this will compete in the US with the Accord/Camry. Probably will be little bit more expensive I'm guessing.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2017
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  12. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Luke , is that larger or smaller than our Passat ? It looks pretty good to me.
     
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  13. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2012 PiP, 2014 C-MAX Energi, 2017 Prime

    I guess chin spoilers are IN.

    Edit: re: Edwin's comment/question.

    It sure looks HUGE to me! :)
     
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  14. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    It's smaller since this is more midsize than full size. Similar to A4/A5 Sportback which is still decent size I think (which is probably what this is based on and this one is also AWD). But cargo space is more practical/bigger since it's a liftback/hatchback. Side profile reminds me of Malibu but at least this is a true hatchback.

    Interior surprised me most. Not even close to the US VW Passat. All digital instrument cluster and looks really upscale (I believe even compared to the Euro Passat). Also both instrument and navi cluster shows really deep blacks with good contrast. Something I think Honda/Toyota really need to fix (give how cheap smartphones with superior displays are). Now only I'd wish it had hybrid or PHEV powertrain eventually...

    UPDATE: just noticed it's called Arteon and not Arteo... Don't want to hijack this thread but if you want more info let me know.
     
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  15. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    That's an oxymoron.
     
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  16. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Just wait little bit and they get very cheap... Cheapest I ever paid in the past was $30 for an Lumia 640 and that screen is still better than most cars. And if you look at 1 year old phones you pay even less than 50%.
     
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  17. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Here are some pictures with similar photos as above.
     

    Attached Files:

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  18. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Here's better picture of the center screen. Contrast is really nice. I just don't get why Camry's is using such poor display's where blacks look like dark gray even at some Lexus models. Hopefully they upgrade that one day. Honda I had similar experience.
     

    Attached Files:

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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    If it weren't a cheating VW, I'd wish the Arteon luck. It reminds me of my parent's CrossTour, which I liked, but not enough of the public did to support it.
     
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  20. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Right but note by now it was discovered pretty much all European carmakers cheated (Mercedes, Renault, ...). Who knows how many more carmakers will be added to that list. Japanese carmakers weren't a big player in this European diesel market.

    Also note that VW has a few other brands so you'd have to exclude consideration of those too: Audi, Porsche (and some more expensive brands).
     
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