150 kW Level3 BEV Charging? Honda’s Got an Answer for That!

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG]
    The most advanced and future proof public BEV charging station in the world just opened at Honda R&D Europe.

    Wayne Gerdes – CleanMPG – June 16, 2017

    [​IMG]
    A pair of Honda Fit BEVs connected and charging.​

    Imagine pulling your 300-mile range/90 kWh Li-Ion traction battery equipped electric vehicle into a charging station and seeing it charge to full in just over 30 minutes from flat?

    Honda just announced it has designed and built Europe’s most advanced public charging station at its R&D facility in Offenbach, Germany. The station uses 940V Level3 technology, enabling up to four vehicles to charge simultaneously with different types of charging connectors.

    Adding to the announcement, the public charging station is powered by renewable energy including a PV carport canopy. Its 940V capability can deliver up to a maximum of 150kW of energy across four simultaneous connections.

    The charging station will be operated by Honda R&D Europe and is ‘future proofed’ for the next generations of electric vehicle technology. While the station can be used by current models of plug-in cars, vans, bicycles or scooters, its maximum high-voltage capability is designed to cope with the demands of future vehicles that have not yet been conceived.

    Honda R&D Europe’s investment in the charging station is part of the ‘Smart Company’ research project within the city of Offenbach, which aims to develop more intelligent and efficient ways of using energy resources. The 940V capability will enable new possibilities for Honda’s internal research into electromobility, in line with its recently-announced ‘Electric Vision’ strategy.

    In a later phase of the research project, Honda R&D Europe intends to install a new hydrogen filling station with integrated hydrogen generation at the Offenbach site. Like the 940V plug-in charging station, it can be supplied exclusively with power from renewable energy sources. It will also have intelligent back-to-grid energy storage and transmission capability for the local power networks.

    The 940V public charging station officially opened on May 29, 2017.

    Honda has committed to an electric future with a specific aim to have electrified powertrains in two thirds of European cars sold by 2025. Development of HEV, PHEV, BEV and FCVs will place Europe at the forefront of Honda’s global electric vehicle strategy.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    The picture is somewhat deceptive, though. It seems to imply that the power for the cars comes from that dinky canopy. Back-of-the-napkin calculations 150kw x 4 = 600kw. Sun irradiance is =1kw/sq meter x 20% efficiency for the cells = 3000 sq m area minimum which is 3/4 acre. A cloudy day would knock the power capability way down or you'd need much more acreage than 3/4 acre.
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI Jay:

    It doesn't. You would need a much larger area (40 - 4 kW panels) of panels to output 150 kW.

    Wayne
     
  4. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    ... Imagine plugging your 40 mile range Clarity PHEV into the "in town charger"., ..... in about 4 minutes you're back to a full tank. And the single charging station could (potentially) handle/manage many, many cars (plugs) hooked up to the central charger.

    There is a case to be made for 40-ish mile PHEV's combined with a strong in town quick (super quick?) charging infrastructure. ... Economics may dictate leaving long highway travel to ICE in order to limit battery pack size.

    ------

    "SC: A lot of data about how far people drive in a day, and that’s kind of why we stuck with around 80 for this car. Because we found that really, so many standard deviations over. Most people could live within the 80. And that car, remember, has DC fast charge so you don’t have a real penalty. And you don’t have to lug around all that extra battery. With the plug-in hybrid, it was the same type of thing. The Accord Plug-In Hybrid that we had in 2014 had 13 miles of range. That was really not very effective. So we wanted to give people enough for a good day’s worth of driving around town, or commuting. So if you plug that in at work, and in California there’s a lot of workplace charging, that’s an 80-mile car. It was a function of what we found to be within what people needed and also how many batteries we’re going to put where in the car. It is a bigger car, don’t forget, so while the Volt might have a little more electric range, it’s not a five-passenger, mid-size car."

    SC = Steven Center, vice president of the Environmental Business Development Office and the Product Regulatory Office of American Honda
    http://insideevs.com/honda-clarity-midsize-42-mpg/
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    An 80-mile range BEV is a non-starter no matter how the OEM wants to sugar coat it. Adding, you are not going to want to fast charge a 5 to 10 kWh pack. They are just to small to charge at those rates. May as well equip all their cars with 1 to 2-gallon fuel tanks to save a ton of weight and increase cargo/passenger volumes since nobody needs more than 40 miles between fill-ups.

    Wayne
     
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  6. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2012 Pip and 2017 Prime

    Don't lose track of max charging rates for batteries and how that relates to battery life. Dumping too much current into a battery would fry it.
     
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  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Yup!!!

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  8. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne,

    I'm talking about PHEV (not BEV). Honda appears to have almost no real interest in selling BEVs.
     
    xcel likes this.
  9. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Engineered correctly -- Temperature controlled rapid charging to 80% (or less) has minor impact on battery life. At least that's the way I understand it,

    So if the clarity PHEV had something like a 12 kWh battery,.. rapid charging to a max of 40 miles range (about 8.5 kWh of 12 kWh total) shouldn't be a problem.

    Edit: internets say 42 mile range and 17 kWh battery
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
    xcel likes this.
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    Not a good idea. I have seen no indication that the OEMs want their packs to be subject to a 50 or more kW Charger at anytime despite being designed to charge at that rate.

    Wayne
     
  11. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne,

    Tesla is an OEM and their superchargers max out at about 3x that (just like the Honda one).
     
    xcel likes this.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    Tesla does not want their cars charged from their super chargers very often as it reduces the batteries longevity. They would even prefer that the packs only be charged to 70 percent under any circumstances.

    Wayne
     
  13. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    If the 42 mile 17 kWh rumor is correct, Honda is well under 70% when "full". If the thermal management and chemistry is up to Tesla standards, quick charging should have almost no detrimental effects on the battery. I think Tesla's "battery guru" would agree with that. I guess I can dig that video up and look for confirmation.... but I'd rather not.
     
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Carcus:

    Here is an example. 200k mile 2010 Prius in RI. Pack cap modules had Capacity drops between 17 and 38 percent. The Prius is always kept in a tight band as it is a charge sustaining mode hybrid. Battery degradation from maximizing Cap is a very bad idea. Leaf and Tesla owners are all experiencing it.

    There is no way around this today.

    Wayne
     
  15. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Maximizing cap??? On a "42 mile 17 kWh battery"?

    Pretty sure we're not communicating very well here.
     
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    Every time you fill. It is the problem with all electrics. Every charge no matter how controlled as to rate or SoC limit degrades the battery. This is not conjecture.

    Wayne
     

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