2017 Hyundai Ioniq HEV Available Now, BEV in April, and PHEV This Fall

Discussion in 'Hyundai' started by xcel, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Ioniq listings on lots are showing up.
     
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  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Bill, where are you finding the inventory info? Thanks.

    Alster, the Ioniq is a P2 hybrid and the ICE is started by a drive belt.
     
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  3. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Cars dot com. All models, all distances, filter=ioniq

    Edit: sorry, all Hyundai of course.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2017
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  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Although you still need to wire your smartphone through USB for Android Auto - BT does not have the bandwidth, here is a shot I luckily caught of the wireless charging beginning on my older S5.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Qi Charger

    [​IMG]
    Samsung Galaxy S5: Charging pad detected. Charging wirelessly...​

    If you look closely, the pads bump stops and cutout length can handle smartphone sizes up to and exceeding the 5.5 - 5.7" screened Samsung Galaxy Note Series and LG G4 through V20 plus others. In addition, I did not have to screw around spinning it or moving it side to side to match some mythical exact alignment like many other automotive Qi charging solutions we have experienced.

    Wayne
     
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  5. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Some more detail on the Ioniq (hybrid) 12v battery:


    "A unique feature in the Ioniq hybrid is its 12-volt battery. Rather than a traditional lead acid standalone unit, Hyundai uses a lithium-ion design that is electrically separate from – but co-packaged with – a 1.56 kilowatt-hour high voltage hybrid battery under the rear seats. Both batteries are covered under a lifetime failure warranty for original owners.

    If the 12-volt battery should ever be temporarily run down too low to start the car it can be revived by the large hybrid battery by pressing a button inside the car. If that fails for some reason the car can still be traditionally jump started."

    (via hybridcars.com)
     
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    I am still working down the list... Hyundai went over this but imho, if the large traction battery or small 12V sect. was depleted to that level, it is toast. Li-Ion Polymer driven down to below 5 to 10 percent creates irreparable damage. Getting the car booted up, spun over and running its probably not going to help other than getting the car home. If the 12V goes down, press the button and the large traction battery boosts it very quickly. It looked like a manual relay to get the 12V sect. charged and allow the car to boot up. Same problem arises however. This 12V section is the same chemistry as the traction battery.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq - Internal 12V Jump Start

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  7. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    That reminds me of the reverse of the hybrid Ford Escape (FEH)/Mercury Mariner (MMH) and the (unused by me) circuit that can recharge the traction NiMH battery from the 12V lead acid battery. Of course, the 12V lead acid battery is somewhat of a throw-away in that usage.

    Theoretically, it would be easy to build a protection circuit to prevent over-depleting a li-ion battery, and I thought I've heard of that being the case in other applications. Even the manual button to recover could be automated for a number of cycles. None of that should be necessary if the electrical system is designed to remove all the unintended loads from the 12V battery in a timely manner. This matches the behavior in many cars with 12V lead acid batteries.

    I think the recovery button is unnecessary but nice to have.
     
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  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Good analysis. A 12V Pb-Acid/AGM can recover from flat if it does not sit depleted for long. The LG Chem Li-Ion Polymer chemistry provides higher C-Rates in and out over a std. Li-Ion chemistry but does not have that same restore capability once driven below the 5 to 10 percent SoC over flat. Hyundai did not provide me that SoC Range detail where damage could occur however.

    Wayne
     
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Now the fuel efficiency discussion from the 2017 Hyundai Ioniq HEV. As mentioned earlier, the conditions were detrimental. It was still raining lightly with temps between 58 and 54 degrees F for the first segment following the coast along the 101. There was also a strong headwind of 15 to 20 mph approximately 20 degrees off the right front corner, a 74’ climb from the hotel – incl. multiple > 100’ elevation deltas along route – to the first segment data recording, plus three in the car.

    On the plus side, consider the initial SoC at 17 pips.

    After leaving the hotel, I was dropping down to minimums during the numerous climbs with the descents allowing up to 55 mph into the next trough.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Efficiency Detail

    [​IMG]
    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid - 24 to 98 ft ASL, 17 To 8 pips SoC and 71.1 mpg indicated over 25.2 actual miles.​

    Besides the conditions, that SoC drop was probably worth ~ .6 kWh of pack and at 5 mi/kWh = 3 miles – considering the Ioniq Electric in better condition at 6.9 miles/kWh, added about 3 miles of physical range. Gaining 50’ in elevation from start to finish is worth about .5 miles of additional range.

    Back calculating, the 71.1 mpg indicated over 25.2 miles (.354 gallons) would actually cover approximately 23.0 miles at (25.2 miles minus 3 miles electric plus .8 miles elevation) for an approximately 65.0 mpg indicated result. Like you, I did not think this result was all that impressive for a Guinness World Record setting drivetrain in a lighter and more aerodynamic platform at first glance. The conditions really did suck however.

    From the first data recording stop, I launched again w/out resetting displays to the first driver swap location 65.9 miles from the hotel. The wind and rain had disappeared as we climbed over the first hills heading east away from the coast. Temps ranged from 54 to 52 degrees F.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Hybrid Efficiency Detail

    [​IMG]

    For this result, we still have the approximately 3 miles of electric driving to add. Detracting, we need to add approximately 6 miles of elevation back in. Back calculating, the 57.5 mpg indicated over 65.9 miles (1.15 gallons). Taking into account the electric use and elevation delta, the following indicated estimates results. (65.9 miles minus 3 miles electric plus 6 miles elevation)/1.15 gal = 59.9 mpg indicated with the somewhat heavy climb.

    Most journalists were reporting high 30’s and low 40 mpgs on this route to the driver swap segment in better conditions from Wave1, Wave2 and the poor ones on our Wave3. The platform choice for different segments could have changed this as you can well imagine.

    Again, this was not that impressive for a Guinness World Record Holding drivetrain even with the detrimental weather and topography conditions… What about in better conditions? Coming up…

    Wayne
     
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  10. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne,

    Well, I was thinking that there must be circuitry to keep the 12v from going all the way down. So once it gets below a useful charge it is isolated out (and perhaps maintained at "life saving" voltage) ?? Lots of new tech to cover in this one car (not to mention 3 new cars).
    ------
    "What about efficiency in better conditions and without the mountain climbs?..."
    -------
    I'm anticipating a wild swing in the upward direction?

    ... and what about that "terrain anticipating tech",... are human hyper milers about to get automated out of a job?? lol
     
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  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    The terrain anticipating tech is a very weak solution at best - press a button and double your efficiency! :D - although I did not set it up for the climb. I was in the stripped Blue trim Ioniq for the first drive. Coming back was downhill in the Limited.

    Wayne
     
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  12. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Towing capacity for Ioniq: 38 metric tons (unofficially) :)

     
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  13. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Regarding running the 12-V lithium-ion battery down to destruction, I agree with you that almost all lithium-ion battery powered devices, from cell phones to automotive traction batteries, have fairly accurate fuel-gauges that should keep them out of trouble. However, I would not leave any BEV or PHEV or HEV unattended for long periods, especially in cold weather, because they will self discharge. Since we've positively located the 12V lithium-ion battery in the traction battery enclosure (Wayne even has a pic of it in this thread.) we need to identify what the mystery box is next to the gas tank that we saw on the Niro. :)

    Regarding ECO-DAS, it was supposed to do two things according to the press releases: 1) provide coast coaching via the satnav and 2) charge and discharge the battery according to terrain via the satnav; that is, the car can anticipate a long steep hill, charge the battery fully as it approaches, ration electric boost to the crest of the hill, and then recharge on the way down. No hypermiler can do this. See the video starting at :0:50.

     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    I know you have high hopes for it but it is not going to provide nearly the boost anyone believes it does. Both the NIro and Ioniq SoC can be controlled. And we do it far better as you can crest and bury the SoC into the lowest portion of the SoC range whereas Eco-DAS will not allow you to get down that far at speed.

    IHTHs.

    Wayne
     
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  15. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Wayne, can you cause the SoC to fully charge the battery as you approach a climb? I have only a few miles of hybrid experience but my sister's hybrid Sonata will maintain about 50% charge in that scenario because the car has to leave room for regenerative braking and doesn't know the hill is approaching. Essentially, ECO-DAS makes fuller use of battery capacity by giving the car eyes to see the terrain ahead and the knowledge of where you're going. It's reasonable to assume that more electric boost capacity would increase FE. I read 3% somewhere. I live in a mountainous area so I'm trying to decide if ECO-DAS is worth it.

    Having said that, ECO-DAS is not available in EU (though Hyundai promises the feature in the future) so the guys there have no experience with it. On the Niro, in the US, only a couple guys on the Niro forum opted for the nav system and don't really understand what ECO-DAS is supposed to do. I think the coast coaching feature works--not sure about the terrain-adaptive SoC. In any case, if ECO-DAS is only avail on the top-level trim, I'm out.
     
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  16. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    So, the differences between the hybrid and the electric Ioniq is the electric has 2.7 cu ft less storage, and it has a beam rear axle (I think)?
     
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  17. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    The EV also has a lead/acid 12v battery rather than the built-in LiPo 12v. Recalling what I saw at the auto show last year, the load floor is a bit higher in the EV, but still shaped for great utility.
     
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    It does not fully charge, it goes to about 3/4. During a climb, a full SoC to half is good for a few blocks, not miles. Controlling the range to the bottom is accomplished by consuming as much of the range as possible before the crest of any mountain and than regen down. Remember my climb of the Laguna Mountain range on the I8 with Niro last year?

    2017 Kia Niro

    [​IMG]

    The EcoDas system just like the Eco vs. normal mode button is not going to save anyone here anything. Sport mode is an entirely different animal as it changes shift points and low gear holds.

    Neil, pretty much. The Electric's motor and pack is much larger, a single speed vs. 6-speed DCT in the HEV/PHEV, the center console, shifter, and Qi charger location is completely different, the grille is much different, and the std. equipment is higher with the Ioniq Electric, and what Chris said, a 12V in the BEV.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Center Consoles

    [​IMG]
    Battery Electric

    [​IMG]
    Hybrid/Plug-in Hybrid

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Grilles

    [​IMG]
    Battery Electric

    [​IMG]
    Hybrid/Plug-in Hybrid

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Engine Bays

    [​IMG]
    Battery Electric -- Notice the chrome inlays in the engine cover? Designers were sprucing up the Electric.

    [​IMG]
    Hybrid/Plug-in Hybrid​

    Wayne
     
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  19. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Makes for a right proper looking "engine." :)
     
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  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Anyone want to go for an Ioniq ride?

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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