2017 Hyundai Ioniq HEV Available Now, BEV in April, and PHEV This Fall

Discussion in 'Hyundai' started by xcel, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

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  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    The features charts are very helpful, Wayne. I'm thinking that the mid-level Ioniq with the tech package has a better mix of features for me than the Niro LX with the tech package. The Ioniq has RCTA, BSD, and LCA that the Niro LX lacks and both cars are about the same money. I'm sure I'd be completely happy with either.
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    I also wish the Niro had BSD with RCTA as that is one of the most important safety features in any vehicle in the world we all drive imho. I was happy to see it in the Ioniq SEL although I do think the Tech pkg. (AEB, RCC, and LDW) at $1k is a bit steep.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq HEV and PHEV-27

    [​IMG]
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    Some of the included safety equipment.​

    Of the two, I also wish we did not have to move into a Limited/Touring to receive Xenon HIDs. Better yet, LEDs should be standard across the board. I am not sure why Hyundai is resisting that trend when their key competitor in the Hybrid space makes them standard across the board. LEDs offer lower power consumption, possibly last a lifetime, and much better color.

    Bill, the EPA datafile creating that output can be downloaded from the Fueleconomy.gov website and has even more detailed information, Unfortunately they all round off the passenger and cargo volume for all cars and trucks. And never provide the volume with the seats down either. :(

    Wayne
     
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  4. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Totally agree about the LED headlamps. If Toyota can put them standard on a Corolla, that doesn't leave any excuse for any other automaker not to offer LED headlamps on much more expensive cars. LEDs have all the advantages you mentioned plus one more: instant full-power output. HIDs take several minutes to reach full output.
     
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  5. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I can't stand being on the receiving end of HID headlights.
     
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Now into the competitive details and let me begin with the Hyundai Ioniq Electric.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq and 2017 Chevrolet Bolt

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    Hyundai provided a Bolt for competitive comparison against its Ioniq Electric. If you watched the YouTube presentation I embedded above, Michael O'Brien, VP of Corporate Product Planning, reiterated what I have been touting for years.
    At 124 mile range, 136 MPGe 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Electric is more efficient than the 238 mile range, 119 MPGe rated 2017 Chevrolet Bolt, and 107 mile range, 112 MPGe rated 2017 Nissan Leaf. It goes downhill fast from there.

    Considering the January 2017 U.S. Electrified Auto Sales.

    [​IMG]

    The Bolt in its first month came out swinging with a third place rank. I suspect it will take over the sales lead in February if the short U.S. supply Bolt reaches more dealerships this month than last. What this says is not only was there a lot of demand for this new offering within the very small Electrified segment sales, that 238 miles range speaks volumes!

    There are some great highlights and shortfalls with regards to the Bolt.

    On the upside is the real elephant in the room. That being range. With the average daily commute of just 43 miles, the 238 mile range Bolt and 124 mile range Ioniq both will provide owners a rather large buffer for said daily commute. The Bolt however allows much longer distance travel or commuting between a non-daily charge schedule without nearly the range anxiety of the Ioniq Electric. It is also damn quick with a sub-7 second time to 60 mph. I have not timed the Ioniq’s 0 to 60 time but as a best guess, it will be in the 10 second range with its diminutive 118 hp vs. the Bolt’s 200 hp unit. These two attributes plus its ride and handling prowess are the Bolt's strong points.

    One-pedal driving? The Bolt can effectively be controlled with the accelerator only but there is no full glide function. The Ioniq Electric by contrast has a full glide function but even with the regen adjusted to maximum via the paddle shifters in the Limited trim, it will decelerate much more slowly to about 3 to 5 mph and will not stop. As most here know, the glide is where the efficiency arises and the Ioniq Electric's adjustable Regen maximizes efficiency over that offered in the Bolt.

    Ioniq Electric vs Bolt Pricing

    The base 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Electric ($30,335 incl. the $835 D&H charge) has a $7,910 USD advantage over the base 2017 Chevrolet Bolt ($37,495 incl. the $875 D&H charge). A Level3 SAE DCFC adds another $750 to the Bolt’s cost whereas it is std. on the Ioniq Electric. The (2) optional Bolt packages cannot be directly compared to the Ioniq Electric but the $555 Comfort and Convenience pkg. adds heated driver and front passenger seats, leather-wrapped wheel (both std. on the Ioniq Electric), a heated steering wheel (not available on the Ioniq Electric) and Auto-dimming rearview which you have to move up to the Ioniq Electric in Limited trim to receive.

    2017 Chevrolet Bolt Monroney

    [​IMG]
    Ouch! A fully loaded Premier at an eye popping $43,510 USD. Even with $10k worth of giveaways, a compact from any OEM at that price is far to much.​

    Ioniq Electric vs Bolt Charging

    Considering the Bolt’s optional Level3 SAE CCS DCFC. According to the various Bolt releases, it can be charged for 90 miles range in 30-minutes. This is ~ 38 percent of the 238 miles range in 30-minutes. If the EPA efficiency and range are correct, the Bolt’s actual usable pack capacity is 66 kWh calculated from the EPA rated (28 kWh/100 mi * 2.38) to cover its EPA rated 238 miles of range. This equates to the Bolt being charged at a maximum of 50 kW ((.38 * 66 kWh pack)/.5 hrs) from a Level3 DCFC. I have e-mails into two Chevrolet PR reps to receive clarification on this as the SAE CCS DCFC spec shows 50 or 100 kW charge capability?

    The Ioniq Electric on the other hand can be charged from flat to 80 percent (99 of its 124 miles range) in 23 minutes at 100 kW – 30 minutes at 50 kW – from an SAE DCFC charging station. If the EPA efficiency and range are correct, the Ioniq Electric’s actual usable pack capacity is 31 kWh calculated from the EPA rated 25 kWh/100 mi * 1.24 to cover 124 miles. This equates to the Ioniq Electric being charged at a maximum of 66 kW ((.80 * 31 kWh)/.38 hrs) from a 100 kW Level3 DCFC.

    To cover 1,000 miles in the Bolt (280 kWh) while charging at a maximum rate of 50 kW will take 5.6 hours of charge time. The Ioniq Electric (250 kWh) would take just 3.8 hours.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Electric SAE CCS DCFC port

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    If you were attempting to travel a lengthy distance for example, the Bolt is going to take longer to charge/mile despite having a significant first charge distance advantage. This is not only because it is less efficient per the EPA but because it is charging at a 26 percent lower rate according to the published specs. This question still needs to be fully answered as a given pack does not charge at the same rate (C-Rate) at any capacity (it is not a straight line and slows significantly as the SoC increases) but the charge comparison between the Ioniq Electric and Bolt is evident.

    Ioniq Electric vs Bolt Efficiency

    What about that efficiency comparison? I did not have much time and need days vs. hours but I did complete RT city and highway drive loops of the Ioniq Electric (EPA rated at 4 mi/kWh) in Limited trim and Chevrolet Bolt in Premier trim (EPA rated at 3.6 mi/kWh).

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Electric in Limited Trim

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    7 mile RT city loop at 7 mi/kWh.

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    13 mile RT highway loop at 6.9 mi/kWh.

    2017 Chevrolet Bolt in Premier Trim

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    7 mile RT city loop at 6.0 mi/kWh.

    [​IMG]
    Where is the fueling port? ;) Having fun in the Bolt Premier at a Shell in Goleta, Calif.​

    The pic for the highway loop did not take but it came in at 5.8 mi/kWh.

    In any case, the above results follow the EPA ratings relatively closely. The Ioniq Electric being more efficient than the Bolt within the following comparisons:
    • EPA MPGe basis: 14.2 percent (136 MPGe vs 119 MPGe)
    • EPA kWh/100 mi basis: 12 percent (25 kWh/100 mi vs 28 kWh/100 mi)
    • Non-calibrated City RT Drive loop: 16.6 percent (7 mi/kWh vs 6.0 mi/kWh)
    • Non-calibrated Highway RT Drive loop: 18.9 percent (6.9 mi/kWh vs 5.8 mi/kWh)
    Ioniq Electric vs Bolt Driving Impressions

    This is where personal preferences stand out. Regarding straight line performance, the Bolt is a killer and easily dominates the Ioniq Electric.

    Regarding driver/passenger comfort, the Ioniq Electric is a much better fit for taller and wider individuals. The Bolt’s seat bolsters were impinging on my thighs and rear mandating a removal of my wallet to get comfortable. It also felt much tighter side to side with hip and shoulder room begin constrained. The roominess impression bares out in the specs as well.

    Ioniq Electric/Bolt Sizing Comparison

    Headroom Front (in): 39.1 (38.2 if equipped with Sunroof)/39.7
    Headroom Rear (in): 37.4/37.9

    Legroom Front (in): 42.2/41.6
    Legroom Rear (in): 35.7/36.5

    Shoulder Room Front (in): 56.1/54.6
    Shoulder Room Rear (in): 55.0/52.8

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Interior

    [​IMG]
    The best interior comfort and ergonomics of any electric available today. This includes the Tesla Model S and X!​

    Ride and handling? There was a set of dual 4” potholes near the hotel. My co-driver ran over them in the Bolt first and I cringed. Surprisingly the Bolt absorbed it and there was not much of any undulation. The Ioniq absorbed the potholes slightly less smooth. During a quick lane change, I felt the Bolt’s stiffer suspension handled that scenario much better as the initial soft to harder suspension of the Ioniq was out of sorts on the return. Advantage Bolt. You will be able to feel this for yourself by shimmying the wheel from side to side and pay close attention to the second and third etc. turn back straight ahead.

    Convenience features? The Ioniq Electric power seats were not only more comfortable, they were powered vs. the manual adjustable seats in the Bolt. At $36,835 MSRP for the Electric in Limited Trim with the Ultimate pkg. has them while the $43,510 Bolt Premier did not. The Ioniq Electric also included a powered sunroof whereas the Bolt did not. A $40K plus compact that has manual seats and no sunroof?

    Appearance is very personal. I like the Bolt’s overall exterior design better but its MPV like look make it a bit to bubbly for me. The Ioniq Electrics grille leaves a lot to be desired in this comparison. Advantage Bolt. Inside, the Ioniq appears to have a bit more modern appearance. The bezels GM uses around its center stack look less modern in my eyes by comparison to the new Ioniq Electric.

    Consider charging times of both the Bolt and Ioniq Electric for their respective 238 and 124 miles of range -- Level1 > 60/28 hours, Level 2 > 10 /4.5 hours, and Level3 when and where you can find them at > 1.5 hours/30 minutes, both leave me flat. Before considering a Battery Electric, make sure you know your local electricity rates. In Southern California, home of the PHEV/BEV, they are a non-starter based on cost, let alone the charging time. :(

    How California is killing the Electric Car

    Overall, it is hard to pass up the Bolt’s 238 mile range. It is also a completely competent commuter in just about every area. The price when equipped with the most popular equipment however would have me seriously considering the HEV and PHEV offerings from everyone else including GM and Hyundai in the form of the Volt, Ioniq HEV/PHEV, and Sonata HEV/PHEV.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Electric

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    Easily the best value proposition in the BEV segment that cannot be beat by anyone.

    2017 Chevrolet Bolt

    [​IMG]
    The fun to drive Bolt is and continues to be the new BEV standard bearer.​

    The Ioniq Electric owns the pure electric segment in terms of price, value, features, and driver comfort. At the same time, its 124 mile range is a long ways from the Bolt’s 238 miles. The Elephant in the room just roared.

    Wayne
     
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  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI All:

    I did hear back from a GM Communication Representative but they declined to add any more detail on a 0 to 80 percent std. charge time on a 50 or 100 kW unit. It was a very well thought out reply with the final statement being:
    Wayne
     
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  8. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I was just chuckling at a story in greencarreports about how the 2017 VW e-Golf beats the Ioniq EV by 1 mile EV range (125 vs. 124), but since it cannot meet the latter's efficiency, we all know what that's worth...
     
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    I am writing up the new 125 mile e-Golf range story now...

    2017 VW e-Golf

    [​IMG]
    EPA rated at 125 miles of all-electric range and 119 MPGe combined.​

    The e-Golf takes the entire BEV segments R&H quotient - Tesla S not included - but the value proposition at 2016 e-Golf pricing cannot come close to the Ioniq Electric. I suspect VW will be sharpening its pencil for the 2017 e-Golf with the release of the Bolt and Ioniq Electric.

    Wayne
     
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  10. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I feel for you, Wayne. It's hard for one person or a small group of people to keep up with all the news all the time. Not that you aren't keeping up; putting in a one-liner is much easier than crafting a story.
     
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  11. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Interesting video of Ioniq BEV charging on a 100kw charge station. Peak charging power was about 69kw.
     
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  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    That vid makes the time to post my 66 kW charging on a 100 kW charger calculations above worth it!

    Wayne
     
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  13. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    Good stuff, Wayne! Did you get pictures of the backseats of the Ioniq Electric and the Bolt EV?

    How many kW is the new e-Golf motor?

    The e-Golf is the best to drive, in my opinion, because of the coasting by default. I hope they fix the niggles: the charging port lock needs to toggle off, or on until charged, in addition to the always on mode. It needs a <i>light</i> in the charging port - I mean, really? The touchscreen in our '15 stops working below about 20F, and the direct heating defroster needs to be stronger. The rear seats and the steering wheel need to be heated.
     
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Neil:

    2017 VW e-Golf Range Increases 50%!

    The Golf has a better R&H quotient than both the Ioniq Electric and Bolt. It is a Golf after all. And like the e-Golf, I really liked the no regen glide adjustment from the Ioniq Electric paddles in the Limited. The Bolt lacked this.

    Wayne
     
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  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I am pretty sure every CleanMPG'er could accomplish a Coast to Coast drive on less than $100 USD in a 2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue trim. ;)

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq

    [​IMG]
    2,338 miles at 58 mpgUS combined = 40.31 gal. $92.55 with the U.S. avg. cost of $2.296/gal.​

    Wayne
     
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  16. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    May very well be my next car to replace our 2010 Prius. I just hope the 58 mpg is not the same as the ford fusion's hybrid 47 hwy 47 city 47 combined a few years
    ago. I don't think many people remember that and also just about the same time Hyundai also got a spanking for inflating the Elantra's mpg numbers as well and had to pay out money, ford didn't pay a penny if I recall.

    As soon as I can get my hands on one for a test drive I'll make a decision. I like the price point of the Ioniq blue, my first choice, being less than $23,000, possibly with a street price of $21,000 or so....
     
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  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Hyundai had some very interesting displays highlighting the car’s build quality and design plus its dimensionality advantage. Driving the Ioniq bares the volume advantage out not just for the driver/front seat passenger’s leg, hip and shoulder room but in general a more comfortable seating experience. Plus a lot of volume in that rather large hatch.

    The base reference is first with the details following. Hyundai did take a liberal approach regarding the Prius and comparing the Ioniq vs. the lesser volume Two w/ the NiMH and Three trims.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Passenger/Cargo Volume Comparisons

    [​IMG][​IMG]
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    [​IMG]

    2016/2017 Toyota Prius EPA Passenger Volume: 93.1 cu. ft.
    2016/2017 Toyota Prius EPA Cargo Volume: 27.4 cu. ft. (Prius Two Eco, Four, Four Touring)
    2016/2017 Toyota Prius EPA Cargo Volume: 24.6 cu. ft. (Prius Two, Three, Three Touring)

    Wayne
     
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  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Some of the Drivertrain details via infographics.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Drivetrain

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Some of the Chassis details via infographics.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Chassis

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
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  20. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    Wayne on the hybrid Ioniq do you know if it has a drive belt, I know our 2010 Prius has no engine belts at all.
     
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