2017 Kia Niro CUV Sets GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS Title for Lowest Fuel Consumption for a Hybrid Vehicle

Discussion in 'Kia' started by Carcus, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    Wayne were looking at replacing our 2010 Prius, which is getting long in the tooth, but still a great car after 151,000 miles and still going strong. My wife has the 2016 Volt which she loves.
    My first interest is the 2017 Ioniq plug in hybrid which is possibly going to have a 31 mile electric range and mid 50's mpg on gas, 2nd choice is the Ioniq blue drive, and then the Niro as last
    option. The Prius and Prius Prime in my opinion have the look of only a mother could love. Now the Prime does have a little better looks than the regular Prius but both just don't quite do it
    for me.
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  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    My thinking is the same as MaxxMPG. I suspect the box is related to the 12VDC supply. I see that the aluminum suspension components are easy to spot.

    Wayne, did ya have to hose 3500 miles worth of candy wrappers, candy crumbs, and junk food droppings out of the interior before the inspection? :)
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    HI Alster:

    All good points regarding your current or near future automotible choices.

    The Niro and Ioniq PHEVs will not be out until the Q3 of 2017 so it will be a while. The Prius Prime is available today but in some locations, you have to special order it. I found this out in Northern IL just before Christmas.

    All are fuel savers and it really comes down to your preferences. Do you want a CUV with its more upright seating position and upright storage or the hatches with their lower seating position and laydown storage. At least now a Compact CUV finally offers Prius like efficiency providing a choice that we did not have before.

    Jay, while at Bob's home, he attacked the interior with a powerful shop vac and an exterior wipe down including a little tire black. Had to try and make it pretty for the cameras despite the overcast days ahead. :)

    And the Niro probably does not have a 12V just as the Ioniq HEV and PHEV doesn't. Still wondering what that box is.

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  4. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    ... from the internets rumor mill, ... the black box would appear to be a 12v battery...

    The next to last poster says there is a 12v battery near the rear of the car that is used to start the engine. --- The starter voltage would probably verify the answer (?) ... if it's a 12v starter than I would think you have to have some 12v capacitor (battery) in the mix somewhere.

    /perhaps it is a low maintenance (12v) lithium ion as well ,.. making the undercarriage positioning acceptable.

    //note: I converted a 12v motorcycle battery to lithium ion a few years ago and it has been great so far. super light, It sits for months without running and starts strong every time.
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  5. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    A quick check on Google images for 'kia niro chassis cutaway' shows the traction battery is ahead of the fuel tank under the rear seat. The Niro HEV and PHEV are lead-free, using part of the HV battery for onboard 12v storage. The EV version will have a 12v battery.
    The running speculation is that it's either a part of the 240v battery (where it's ultimately "L" shaped around the tank), the location of an inverter or regulator or similar electro doo-dad, or the largest evap canister in the entire solar system.
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  6. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    How would you utilize 'part of a high voltage battery' for low voltage storage? ... I mean, I know how you could... but that would be pretty complicated it seems to me... it would have to have switching (relays) for when it was 12v versus in series for the HV. I think of high capacity relays as fail points that you don't want switching very often.

    / Anyway, I guess this isn't really "new" news,... but it is new to me that this is a completely "electric" car in that all of the auxiliaries are electrically controlled/powered (I think?),.. so (like the ioniq) the drivetrain can be easily interchanged to PHEV or pure electric. --- I'm getting some of this from the Niro forum (which also says the 12v and HEV batteries are not connected) so I may be trusting too much in rumors ...
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  7. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Add to my post above,... IF Kia now has two vehicles that are designed to accept BEV drivetrains,.. then you might conclude that Kia sees the future of affordable high(er) capacity batteries as being very near. It will be interesting to see if other manufacturers follow suit in this type of "BEV prep" engineering.

    Kia Niro Technical Specification

    "An all-new platform exclusively for electrified vehicles

    There will be no combustion engine-only version of Niro. Its all-new platform has been engineered exclusively for electrified vehicles, and a plug-in hybrid version (PHEV) will be introduced for the 2017 model year."
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  8. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Ioniq 12v battery can be seen @ 5:11/23:46

    Hyundai Ioniq First Drive (English Subbed)
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    The Niro does not and will never start on a 12V. 12Vs are used to boot full hybrids by closing the traction battery relays and powering the 12V accessories. The Niro and Ioniq HEV and PHEV do not have a 12V in the typical sense. They may have a 12V storage system but more than likely it is another tap off a seperate inverter circuit within the main inverter/transverter. You would also not want to place prismatic batteries in a plastic tray under the car like that. Or a 12V for that matter as you could never get to it and the possibility of damage in that location would be a non-starter.

    If you saw the Ioniq HEV/PHEV and BEV vids from NY this past April and LA last month, only the BEV had a 12V.

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  10. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    The 12VDC supply for the US Niro/Ioniq is either derived from the traction battery with a downconverter or has dedicated Li-Ion cells or both. The Korean versions retain the pb-acid 12-v battery.
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  11. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    It's a 12v lithium ion battery powered from a DC/DC converter. You would think it would just be in the same place (right rear of "trunk" storage) as the ioniq.

    ".....the North American market Ioniq PHEV has no 12-V lead-acid battery for accessories, which saves about 26 lb (11.8 kg). Instead there is an electronic 12-V tap off the Li-ion battery pack. Under the hood, at the left front fender are a pair of posts for 12-V charging. . ...."

    "Interestingly, the Ioniq family also employs a small lithium-ion 12-volt battery located in the trunk, which is charged via DC/DC converter. This battery also gets in on Hyundai’s exclusive lifetime hybrid/electric battery warranty."

    [and Wayne is sure the starter must not be part of the 12v system, ... ok. --- but that "at the left front fender are a pair of posts for 12-V charging" sentence still does make me wonder a little bit] ... and we still have no idea what's in the box
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
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  12. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    That's the Gonkulator under there.
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  13. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    The Korean model's owner's manual shows a 12V battery in the right rear. One of the possible battery types shown was an AGM battery with pretty decent CCA ratings, much more than required for the simple duty of keeping the control electronics alive while the high voltage battery is off-line. I'm not saying it is used to start the car, just that the 12V shown for the Korean model was oversized.

    I would think with a DC-DC converted 12V system, the posts would not be a likely way to charge the 12V system; not needed. However, (my guess is) it can be used to help out someone else's vehicle should their 12V be drooping. The Nissan Leaf had posts like that, though in that case, there was a real 12V battery that could be charged.

    That black box is just about where the traction battery sits as someone already said, and the box is right below the in-cabin ventilation at the left end of the rear seats. I wonder if it is related?...
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  14. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    I like gonkulator,... But I'm going with "largest evap canister". Final answer
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  15. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    Looking at next year, 2017, I sure like the looks of the Ioniq, and we already have a 240 V charger for our 2016 Volt, we are leaning toward the Plug in Ioniq. Sure would be nice to know what the price point is for the Ioniq blue drive hybrid, Ioniq plug in hybrid, and the Kia Nero. Looking forward to the 2017 Portland Oregon Auto Show to see if all 3 will be on the floor. It nice to know that even with gas prices at $2.50 / gal. or less there is still a pretty good interest in hybrid, plug in vehicles. Interesting times....
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  16. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    I'll take a Niro plug-in, please.
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  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Q3 of 2017. :) What kind of survey did you take regarding Niro pricing?

    Carcus, I finally had the chance to watch the entire Korean Short Lead Vid. While we will not know what pricing is for a few months yet, they priced it at $22k USD in Korea and the reviewer said the Prius - 3rd gen - is dead. I assume he was talking about the $25 to $26k pricing here. I am not sure what they go for there?

    If the base 17 Ioniq arrives at $22k, the 16 and 17 4th gen even with the $4 to $5k on the hood is going to be in a world of hurt.

    Hinting back to the Niro, the 2017 Toyota Prius v pkg 3 (base trim) starts at $28k and uses the older 3rd gen Prius drivetrain. The 2017 Kia Niro LX could arrive under $25k if the above pricing thoughts make any sense. Wild speculation on my part with regards to pricing because I have no idea but < $25k CUV with a 50 mpg rating would be pretty neat. And we are talking retail with discounting sure to follow depending on fuel prices.

  18. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    The Car Connection is reporting that the base FE trim will start at $24k and a fully loaded Touring trim tops out at $33k.
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  19. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Looking forward to learning Canadian pricing.
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  20. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Thanks for the reference, Jay. Good read.

    Wayne, I wish I could remember the details of the survey. The impression I got was that Kia was looking for the "elasticity" of the survey taker's willingness to spend on various features. Some of the questions went like, "would you pay $200 for this? Would you pay $150? Would you pay $100? etc." Other questions gave choices of various trim levels and prices with some of the options changed, for example wheel size or safety components, and they would do that 10x with minor changes. It was tiring at times. Not all of the choices made sense but the selection would usually show what really mattered to the survey taker, e.g. willingness to pay a little more for safety features or less willingness to pay for the larger wheels.

    Edit: I think I'd like the high end trim with the 16" wheels. The high end because of the safety features *and* most importantly for the wife, a heated steering wheel. Her arthritic hands make holding a cold steering wheel painful.
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