2017 Kia Niro CUV Sets GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS Title for Lowest Fuel Consumption for a Hybrid Vehicle

Discussion in 'Kia' started by Carcus, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Great find, ksstathead! Up to your post I was certain neither the Ioniq nor Niro would have any towing capability. I believe the Ioniq manual warns against any towing. I'm not sure what a "tow package" would entail but at least it's not an electric motor limitation. This is a big plus for the Niro.
     
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  2. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2016 Crosstrek, 2012 PiP, 2014 C-MAX Energi

    Time for a group purchase! :) Just kidding, mostly. I've been amazed by news stories of group purchases of Nissan Leafs.
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid GWR Attempt Begins

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    Gasoline is not what we would consider inexpensive in downtown LA and all of California for that matter. Only AK and HI cost more!​

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    Heidi and Ronald were our station attendants covering the GWR documentation for this first fill, Tank #0, from the Shell on 900 N. Hill St., LA Calif.
    The displays are reset. We also placed packing tape over the seal just after the pic was taken and at each subsequent refuels just in case.​

    Anyone notice the odometer on the Niro at 1,707 miles? I picked it up and dropped it off, picked it up and dropped it off, picked it up and dropped it off, and picked it up again over the previous two weeks. First drive began with just 5 miles on the clock. That was a lot of testing and a lot of running around for “stuff”!

    Onboard were two Garmin’s, two full sized spares, a 24 pack of Pepsi, 24 bottles of water, 16 bottles of Gatorade, 16 bottles of sparkling water, canned almonds, canned peanuts, Trail Mix, Beef Jerky, 24 packs of cheese and peanut butter crackers, 24 packs of Nutter Butter Peanut Butter Cookies, Peanut Butter and Peanut M&Ms, Animal Crackers, 24 fruit cups, Licorice, and 12 packs of Granola Bars otherwise known as “F'n Crumbs Everywhere” according to a meme I found on the Internet.

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    Bob and I proved it just about every day too. :D

    Plus a full complement of early winter survival gear, 4 smartphones covering three different networks w/ > 15 GBs of data to consume, a 21k, (2) 5k mAh portable charger(s), laptop, a new Sony a6300 and all of its accessories, a full tank of gas, and weeks’ worth of clothing – two weeks for me. That plus two of us added approximately 700 lbs to the weight of the car. It was fully loaded.

    Next destination, was just 1.0 miles down the road at an LA parking garage overlooking LA City Hall. We may have been just 2.5 hours late but he/we managed.

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    The Hero awaiting orders to boot up and launch again.

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    LA City Hall to the left, Kia Niro Hybrid front and center, and the LA Times Bldg. to the right. Not sure about the glass one directly behind?

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    Another landmark just behind all of the activity was the Disney Concert Hall. Shell is going to love this one.

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    Ok, we are really ready to go this time. I promise. :)

    The temperature and weather by the time we left LA late on the afternoon of Sunday Dec. 4th was a balmy 73 degrees with no wind and not a cloud in the sky. Traffic forecast was light to moderately heavy. In other words, it was perfect. Absolutely perfect. At least to half way across the Mojave before night fell and prior to the CA/AZ border that is…

    If you want to read just one last passage, the following will be it. After driving around downtown LA, up 2 stories to the parking garage, back down and around LA City Hall, back out onto the 10, over the San Bernardino Mountain Range at almost 2,700 ft. and back down to the desert floor ... The Niro posted a result I doubt I will ever see from a CUV ever again.

    Wayne

    #experienceNiro
     
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid

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    A loop around LA City Hall because we could, not because we actually had too.​

    The next pic is when it all comes together. All the pre-drive setup, planning, the weather conditions, the heavy traffic, and despite a fully loaded Niro packed for a week long plus excursion incl. emergency’s, it pulls off a result I can only describe as one for the record books.

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    McDonald’s stop in Indio, Calif. 94.9 mpg after 129.1 act mi incl. the ascent over the 2,650 ft. high peak on the 10 between LA and Indio.​

    The Niro was performing so well we were just .75 mpg off the GWR minimum target when cresting the peak!!! At that point I decided to skip taking a secondary down to the I8 along the U.S. Mexico border to Tucson and instead continue on down the 10 towards Phoenix because the Niro was performing so well.

    Even taking into account the overall descent of some 350’ from the Shell station in LA to the desert floor in Indio where we swapped and Bob took over after a short dinner, the Niro still pulled off a miraculous 92.6 mpg result. I do not think my long defunct 2-seat all aluminum 2001 Honda Insight with just me in it could have pulled this off and here we were in a fully ladened compact CUV packed to the 9s!

    I have driven a lot of cars and trucks over the years and nothing prepared me for this result. Just fricken wow!!!

    All well and good but how this exuberant start was going to be put to the test in very short order. To be discussed in the next segment of “As the Automobile Wheel Turns.” ;)

    Wayne

    #experienceNiro
     
  5. Prozac

    Prozac Well-Known Member

    It's funny that you say that about gas prices. I was just up in Anchorage late October and I can tell you that I did not pay anywhere near that. Those gas prices are insane!
     
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  6. TheFordFamily

    TheFordFamily Well-Known Member

    Those prices are ridiculous! Although my quick glance on GasBuddy shows that LA Metro is paying the same for gas as I am here in Northeast Ohio! This could definitely be a gamechanger for KIA
     
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    Where'd you fine that info? Not doubting it because a parallel hybrid should be better able to handle towing than a power-split one, but if it is for the European or Australian market, there are different trailer regulations in effect. Mostly in regards to tongue weight. In short, they give up trailer stability at speeds over 60mph for higher load. If an European figure, it will likely get cut in half for the US.
    As a crossover, the Niro could and should keep its towing ability for the North American market. The Ioniq, as a car, will likely have its ability axed in order to upsell to a SUV here.

    A tow package likely means an additional transmission cooler in addition to a hitch. At least with a step transmission it does. I actually don't know if a double clutch is cooled like one of those or a manual.
     
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  8. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Trollbait, I'll let ksstathead speak for himself. A quick google search, though, confirms 1300 kg towing capability (for a braked trailer) at a number of sites : http://www.kianiroforum.com/forum/8138-post1.html. I can only speculate what the towing package might be or what it costs. So far, the only thing I can determine is that a tow bar is included. A tow bar for the Kia Soul is about $400.

    Towing ability is definitely a plus for me. But as long as it's not an electric motor limitation, maybe the aftermarket will develop a package for the Ioniq if Hyundai chooses not to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2016
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  9. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    I think it might be all right for "around town - light towing" ,... but when you consider the 1.6 is only good for 104 hp and 109 ft.lb,.... I'm not sure how things would be in a "battery depleted" scenario.

    I also wonder if the drivetrain limits are showing up in that highway mpg drop off(FE:49 vs Touring:40) when you go to the touring (roof rack, 18" wheels).

    It's getting great gas mileage for a crossover,... just saying if someone were to expect too much "full SUV performance" out of it on a regular basis -- then that might not be a good match.
     
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  10. rhwinger

    rhwinger Well-Known Member

    Well Carcus, I guess that's why they call it a crossover.

    Thanks,

    Bob
     
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  11. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I encountered a bit of snow on the road today , and my car CROSSed right OVER it with no problem. That's why they call it a crossover.
     
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  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Edwin:

    You snarky ... :D

    Wayne
     
  13. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    I think I get what you're saying, Bob ...

    demotivational-poster-12761.jpg
     
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  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    After the shake your head is this real stint to the McDonald’s in Indio, it was Bob’s turn behind the wheel. He had all of 40 miles of practice between KIA HQ in Irvine, Calif and the Shell in downtown LA the morning of but in true GWR holding style, he was like a duck in water. Scared out of his mind for the first few miles and after that, sitting on a knife edge for hundreds of miles was standard fare. :)

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid

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    “Bomber Bob” during his first few minutes of pure terror. :D

    His stint proved to be very fruitful as he reached the CA/AZ border at 87.4 mpg indicated after 230.3 miles traveled and 350' total climb. Thousands of feet of ascents and descents in between as well.

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid Reaches AZ

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    Take a look at the brush along that off-road pavement stop as well as the temperature in the display.

    Anything below 55 degrees and she falls off in rapid fashion. In addition, we picked up some debris that almost took the entire drive down before we finished crossing a portion of AZ, just the second state…

    I took over and wouldn’t you know it, the winds pick up – crossing headwind at 10 mph – as did the tumble weeds. In fact I ran over a few of the damn things. Not only are we beginning to battle stronger headwinds, multiple 1,000+ ft. ascents and descents up to 5,000’ASL just a few miles beyond Tucson, and temperatures that head south just after sunset, something about those tumble weeds quite literally “put the brakes” on our progress.

    We stopped for the night at 1,452' ASL in 47 degrees F temps just outside of Casa Grande, AZ after 412.0 miles with 78.3 mpg displayed. Our efficiency was falling between .1 and .2 mpg after each full EV and ICE-On cycle and I just knew something was wrong...

    Wayne

    #experienceNiro
     
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  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Given the efficiency fall off and conditions that plagued our journey the previous night after such superb start, I took the wheel yet again the following morning with the sun beginning to warm up the pavement but an ambient still in the high 40s and that headwind coming right into our face at 10 to 15 mph. It was not going to be a good stint and the results to the next stop in Tucson proved just that.

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid

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    A driver swap in Tucson after the very disconcerting morning drive.​

    Despite having climbed back up to almost the .5 mile altitude again, at this point, we are barely above the 74.3 minimum. To put it bluntly, we lost over 20 mpg on this first tank between 130 miles and 491 miles. Yes there were conditions and an ascent but a 20 mpg+ loss???

    At this stop I began making calls into Kia Corporate stating that this drives results may now be such that we will not make it after all. We need an approximate 5 mpg buffer before the turn northeast up the Eastern Seaboard out of Florida in a few thousand miles and we are not even 500 miles out and just over the minimum target!

    Just like we do at each fuel stop to remove any air trapped in the tank, at this lunch stop, Bob came up with the idea that we should move the Niro under EV back and forth a few times while piling into the binders in a hard stop both forwards and back in an attempt to loosen up something in the binders if that was in fact the cause of all the raucous.

    Bob took the wheel next with a harsh 2,650’ ascent over the next 60 miles. Temps in the low 60s and the headwinds had all but died off by this time. While he was driving, I was on the phone with Kia’s PR and Engineering teams. After multiple calls and an all-hands conference call, it was decided the next best thing to do was a short maintenance stop at the next Kia dealership ahead which turned out to be Las Cruces, NM, our next Shell refueling point anyway.

    After the final Kia call, I scheduled a brake check and an oil change with Kia of Las Cruces’ Service Department. They normally close at 06:00 pm and with a little pleading, the service manager I was speaking to said they would stay open a little longer. I predicted we would arrive by 06:15 pm since now I had Bob babying the Niro to the best of his ability so we did not lose anything on the descent down to Las Cruces.

    Whatever it was that was pulling the Niro down must have partially cleared after Bob’s brake check idea in Tucson. Over the next 60 miles and .5 mile elevation ascent, Bob crested the highest point on all of I-10 at 5,000 ft. ASL with the Niro’s aFCD at 72.0 mpg and the Garmin showing us 549 miles out. In addition, we gained a substantial 10 to 15 mph tail wind after the peak which should help blow us all the way to Las Cruces according to the US Real Time wind map.

    We are back in business and it is all downhill open empty Interstate from here onwards right? Not quite. ;)

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid Reaches New Mexico

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    And a parting shot of the sun setting in the NM desert after one of the toughest days I have had in years given the drama.

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    Some words about the great state of New Mexico. It is one of the prettiest from the passenger seat while rolling down the 10 imho. Since New Mexico's climate is so dry, 3/4 of its roads are left unpaved because they do not wash away. We were on the I-10 the entire distance so we did not have to experience that fortunately. In addition, Santa Fe, founded in 1610, is the oldest capital city in the United States.

    Next stop, Kia of Las Cruces!

    Wayne

    #experienceNiro
     
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  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    We made it to Kia of Las Cruces ten minutes ahead of schedule with the Niro showing it indeed has what it takes. We also met with a great group of Service folks who went above and beyond by assisting us in our hour of need. Nicole, the Kia of Las Cruces Service liaison I spoke with on the phone a few hours earlier, stated she received calls from both Kia PR and Kia Engineering soon after also making arrangements for our stop. As we pulled up, the a service bay door was open awaiting our arrival as was the dealerships GM, Service Manager, techs, and the Service contact. Talk about rolling out the red carpet!

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid at Kia of Las Cruces

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    We arrived with just minutes to spare.

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    Service bay door was open and Bob drove her right onto the rack.

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    We gained most of our losses back after the Tucson brake check too.​

    Some used to spell relief “Rolaids.” I spell it a pleasantly high aFCD. ;)



    So what was found? The drivers side rear wheel was definitely not spinning as easy as the rest and had tumble weed remnants wrapped around the caliper. Not an uncommon repair in New Mexico according to the master tech. They blew the stuff out, provided a fresh 0W-20 oil change, and we were back on our way.

    These Kia dealership team members were more than just employees, they were road angels. Thank you Todd Roth, Chris Ybarra, Nicole Largent, Ruben Romero, and Lee Rodriguez. The Shell Gift cards I passed out were nothing compared to the service you all provided. Over the top!!!

    Kia of Las Cruces Service Team Members

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    Bob will have plenty to add about this stop as it was his personal highlight!

    Next stop, a Las Cruces, NM Shell for the Niro's first refuel of the trip. The real tale of the tape so to speak.

    Wayne

    #experienceNiro
     
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  17. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Wind and dirt and tumbleweeds; it's why we can't have nice things in the desert. Speaking of not having nice things, my local Kia dealer says the Niro isn't available till spring.
     
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  18. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    I'm looking at the trim level specs and I'm amazed (not in a good way) at the fuel economy hit of the touring launch and touring trims compared to the other trims. The touring launch and touring trims get slightly larger wheels with lower profile tires and they're a bit heavier but they net a whopping 18% less EPA highway gas mileage compared to the FE trim! Can that be right?
    Code:
    
    FE                P205/60R16       3106lbs      52/49/50
    LX                P205/60R16       3161lbs      51/46/49
    EX                P205/60R16       3161lbs      51/46/49
    Touring Launch    P225/45R18       3274lbs      46/40/43
    Touring           P225/45R18       3274lbs      46/40/43
    
     
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  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    January or February. The short lead is in January sometime so probably immediately after that.

    I still question the large span of EPA ratings myself when they were released on the same day the Guinness World Record was announced. It could be very real however. Remember how the 17 Hyundai Elanta Limited fell off by approximately 5 mpg vs the Elantra SE despite having the exact same exact drivetrain and EPA? They are not required to split trims but apparently Kia decided it was in their best interest. This is good for consumer expectations of a given trim too.

    Wayne
     
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  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    I was under NDA when visiting the local Kia dealerships for the parts and services described above. During that period, there was a static 2017 Kia Niro on the floor of my local #Kia dealership in Carlsbad, Calif. that I could talk about. The sales staff said there are a number of dealerships across the country that received them for display. I wish I knew which ones so you could at least see it.

    2017 Kia Niro Hybrid

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    It was a fully loaded Touring trim with all the fixins!

    From the Chicago Auto Show (#CAS) static preview #YouTube interior/exterior overview I posted last February, the design team removed the goofy white plastic door and center tray inserts and installed much classier high end leather and plastic inserts in their place. Yes!!! The 50 mpg estimate is still showing on the adverts and oh boy, a full blown compact #CUV with up to a possible 50 mpg rating. Low emissions, low refueling costs, surely the lowest total cost of ownership vehicle in the segment, and it is on the floor at select Kia dealerships nationwide according to the sales staff here.

    Most auto outlets incl. myself cannot wait to complete a full review drive on this one.

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    2017 Kia Niro Touring trim features.​

    And Kia is not standing still on the Initial Quality front according to J.D. Power either!

    [​IMG]

    Wayne

    #experienceNiro
     
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