Discussion in 'Hyundai' started by xcel, May 12, 2016.
Could the jerk be from the DCT engaging the clutch instead of from the brakes?
Hyundai brake pads last a long time with gentle use. What kills them at a young age is rust on the caliper slides, but maintenance in that area keeps them going for years.
The slight jerk may or may not be the computer bumping the clutch a bit to get the car moving? Depending on clutch temperature, the computer adjusts the clutch engagement so it will behave differently sometimes.
Hi Mike and Chris:
It has nothing to do with the brakes for sure. All I can say is that the DCT is not as smooth as it was for the first 40k miles "sometimes." That is about the miles where it began to randomly occur. If I am traveling stop and craw for hours on end in the city of Chicago, that is when it begins to show up with about every other creep launch providing a slight jerk, jerk, jerk through about 3 mph. A turn of the wheel and sometimes it jolts pretty bad which is when I am really concerned. I am trying to catch it on camera but it is so random that I never know when it will occur??? If I am doing a lot of highway or suburban miles, it rarely if ever appears and is barely perceptible. It feels like the Dry Clutch is possibly wearing unevenly with a lot of stop and crawl use and after a few miles of highway, that wear is evened out again??? Very strange for sure.
And those brakes. Those discs and pads have been abused like nothing on this planet and when the guy came back and told me they were only half worn, I was in shock!
The DCT seems to be sensitive to temperature and doesn't like the "idle creep" that comes with heavy traffic. The hotter the clutch gets, the more "grabby" it seems to be. Get up to speed where the car stays in one gear for a while and things cool down and it gets smooth again. It seems to be the nature of the dry clutch designs.
Wear doesn't seem to be much of a concern except for some people with early Tucson DCT models that were reporting that the car wouldn't go into first gear. I have to think they're either driving with two feet and the left foot on the brake is preventing the computer from engaging the clutch, or the brake light switch is out of adjustment and the car won't apply power because it thinks the brakes are applied. They'd just tromp on the gas and the engine bounces off the rev limiter while the clutch grabs as best it can and things get hot really fast on the friction surface. Once it's hot, launches from a stop are a little bit of a bump-n-lurch affair.
At the 70,600 mile mark, I took a rivet or screw into the right front passenger Nexen N-Priz OEM tire. I am at 3/32nds all around so the OEM tires were scheduled for replacement within 3 to 5,000 more miles anyway. Not bad considering 60k of those miles miles were placed on them doing abusive hard stop and go during Chicago area Rideshare.
A new set of Hankook KINERGY PT (H737) in P195/65R15 size will be going on early next week.
I just ordered my Hankook Kinergy tires thru the Discount Tire in Naperville.
The price was fantastic ! I did buy their "certificates" @ $9.25 per tire , because
I may easily put 75K miles on in that 3-year period. I've already had one of the OEM tires destroyed by
a nail or screw. On I-88 , which you'd think would be a "clean" road.
I declined the $50 rebate for getting a Discount Tire credit card ; now I'm thinking it
might not be a bad idea. I imagine they will still have that offer when I go for
my appointment on the 27th.
If Wayne says the Hankook Kinergy is a good tire , then it's a good tire.
Hi Wayne..... from another thread.
We have one Hyundai Accent, & two Elantras. Switched our 195/65/15 Elantra tires to our standard 175/65/14 " wheel/tire Accent to lower Accent rpms on the highway. At the same time, put some 225/45/18 AND 225/55/17 wheels/tires on one Elantra.... which also lowered rpms. Worked wonderfully. Quite a quintuple coup. Bigger tires, sweet wheels, better handling, no MPG loss. ..... & dead cheap used prices.
Maybe the Hankooks are good , it's too soon to tell. But I can say THIS about Discount Tire : six days after they installed my new tires(Nov 27) , I needed to add air. Meaning , the TPMS indicator lit up. I added air myself ( for $1.50 ) up to 40 psi. Seven days later , the indicator lit up again. I've driven thru almost 50 Chicago winters , this ain't my first rodeo.
I know how often seasonal weather changes cause a tire to lose pressure. it's NOT every single week. So , either Discount tire screwed up the installation ( damaging the wheels or sensors ) or the Hankooks are defective. I've never had a new tire fail before. TWO new tires ? Even less likely. So tonight I'm going to do what I should have done a week ago : go back to Discount Tire and DEMAND that they correct this problem. These guys are supposed to be professionals, right ? Hmmmpphhh.
Continuing from my 12/10/2018 post above:
Twice now, 2 sets of four Hankook 426 tires have worn well for the first 20,000 miles. Like Jeckel & Hyde tho, both sets began wearing poorly, 1 set gone by 33,000 miles & the other set gone by 39,000 miles & that set, (as posted above), lasting a bit longer because it had been transferred to a lighter car during their latter stages of wear. Now, a two tire set of not quite half-used(?) Hankook 431 tires have worn out, while on the Elantra rear, in 24,000 miles of their latter stages of wear....while a two tire set of Yokohama GeoLanders, while on the front drive wheels, on the same car at the same time, tho worn considerably, seems to have extended their lives quite well, at their end.
Thanks , litesong. I will keep a close eye on my Hankooks , keep the air pressure up , and hope for the best.
The mostly-unimpressive OEM Yokohamas that came with my car in April 2015 lasted 76K miles , but the last 10K
would have been dangerous in the winter. The Hankooks were installed 11-27-2018 and have actually
been pretty good in snow.
Have 3 Hyundais, one Accent(140,000 miles; original front pads) & two Elantras(total: 120,000+ miles). At service times, my mechanic says Accent brake pads are great. Also, my mechanic blows the brake dust off the wheels & brakes & that restores brake feel to like new conditions.
Another 10k miles of rideshare on the new Hankooks...
The Elantra Eco's aFCD is 7.2 percent high so 41.9 mpg actual while doing the harshest driving duty cycles in existance.
So it's not just Toyota's that have over-optimistic fcd's. But yes , 41.9 for that kind of driving is impressive.
I am impressed to beat EPA while driving this vehicle into the ground doing rideshare as well.
I had one low beam headlamp go out at the 92k mark and the second go out at the 96k mark. Replacements are $14 each and it is a 10-minute job with rubber glove supplied from Autozone to hold the bulb while snapping it into the harness.
Around 87k miles I began to feel the slight pulsation from the brakes during 70+ mph downhill stops. By 97k miles, I thought drivability was hampered enough I needed to complete a brake job.
$282 for new discs despite the OEMs at 40 percent, new pads, and install.
A new Hankook is going on tomorrow as I ran over a nail or something. Discount Tire incl warranty is going to save me plenty. $50.20 in total.
A set of wiper blades cost me $9.75.
I replaced the OEM air filter $18 - it really did not need changing but... And I am looking for an inexpensive cabin filter replacement.
Iridium plugs cannot be found other than OEM at $18 per. That is going to hurt but they were scheduled for 45k miles. I am well over double that and will do a replacement at 105k like most other vehicles.
I will be transistioning to 10k mile OCIs since changing oil every month is kind of foolish given how clean it looks coming out.
The tranny still likes to do the 1 to 4 mph judder every once in a while but it is less noticeable than before...
Cabin air filter on Amazon for $11.43 -
www. amazon. com/ECOGARD-XC10573-Premium-Hyundai-Elantra/dp/B071ZQXKZD
Video shows how to replace the filter. No tools needed:
Installs in minutes. Air filter goes in with arrows printed on the side facing down.
After close to 100k of urban stop-n-go duty, a new cabin filter will be a good investment.
That reminds me to replace engine and cabin air filters on my Prius.
Thank you for the link and I will order one tonight!
I looked up another cabin filter YouTube last week and just like the headlamps and engine air filter, another 5-minute job!
2018 Hyundai Elantra Eco at Discount Tire
Receiving a new Hankook and rotation at the 97,500 mile mark.
As the 18 Elantra Eco approaches the 100k milestone in just 1 year and 3-months of ownership, here are the pros and cons of longer term ownership that I have experienced to date...
2018 Elantra Eco Pros
Excellent fuel efficiency - 42.9 lmpg
The longest glide capable AT ever produced
Extremely low new vehicle purchase price - $13,800 + TTL
Excellent Android Auto and the base audio system is superb
Great sun visors with the extensions
Large useable cargo volume trunk
Stunningly low TCO - $6,300 TIV at 100k miles so $10,000 in depreciation, $6,250 in fuel, 14 OCs for $360, 1 set of tires for $280, 1 new tire replacement for $50, 1 set of brakes for $282, 1 Hyundai OEM tranny diagnostic for $100, 2 headlamp bulbs for $28.40, 1 set of wiper blades for $9.75, 3 gallons of windshield wiper fluid for $7, and an air filter for $18.
Front discs and pads last far longer than expected
DCT AT clutches worn just 37 percent at the 88k mile mark
Driver and passenger ergonomics and comfort are best in the subcompact segment
Gunmetal gray alloys hide brake dust and dirt very well
15" alloys allow low cost, low RRc replacement tire purchase
Rattle free after 97,500 miles of extremely harsh duty cycles
Ease of replacing filters and bulbs
0 cloth seat wear after more than 6,000 rideshare rides - They still look brand new!
Best paint of any subcompact on the road today
2018 Elantra Eco Cons
Sporadic 7-speed DCT launch to 4 mph judder which began after 60k miles
Poor side/corner lighting
Soft front windscreen glass showing small scratches
14-gal spec tank that does not hold 14-gallons - It really needs a 16+ gal tank
6k mile OCI
45k spark plug replacement
Cheap inflator kit instead of OEM mini-spare causing me to spend nearly $250 for the OEM jack, tools, and mini-spare for the std. 2017/18/19 Elantra
Door drink holder openings need to hold two bottles each, not just one
Single aFCD and it needs at least 3, current day or tank, Trip A, and Trip B
Thanks , Wayne. I've been following your Hyundai experience , and I'm a lot more likely to buy one now.
The only thing I need to figure out is...……..which one ? It will most likely be a manual trans.
If they still sell them in 22 months when I'm ready to buy.
Now that I have sold the 2018 Elantra Eco, it is time to discern the issues regarding its value, its longevity, and use with rideshare or use as a general consumer or day in and day out commuter.
I purchased a new 2019 Hyundai Kona SEL for my son and his wife last week. $18,075 + TTL so out the door for $20,076. Why the SEL? Because it uses a std. 6-speed AT with a torque converter unlike the Limited and Ultimate trims that only arrive with the 1.6L Turbo and DCT. My wife wanted me to take the 17 Sonata Hybrid Limited and buy a 2020 Kona Ultimate trim in its place. I told her no, not with the DCT under the hood. More on that decision, reasons, and requirement below.
Still dirty as it was pulled from the back lot for cleanup before I drove it home for my sons wife.
So why not trade in the Elantra. 3 local dealerships were quoting $2 to $2.5k, way below TIV in the lowest Fair condition.
CarMax offered $3,500 and right in the range after 30-minutes of checks. They found one of the tranny issues during their test drive as well and still offered Fair Condition TIV. I took it.
Along with the launch judder which I could sort of cure with higher RPM downshifts while slowing allowing a smooth launch from a stop from about 60k to 140k miles, at the 145k mark, I began to feel micro slips while just driving down the highway at 60 mph. The RPM would not change but there was a slight and continuous decel and accel about every 10 to 15 seconds. While passengers did not feel it that I know of, it was becoming obvious that one of the DCT clutches was slipping even while cruising down the highway. Any launch from a steep 10+ percent grade/incline and the judder would reappear in severe form with a bang - bang - bang while I suspect the tranny was jumping into and out of first gear???
In any case, with the judder and micro slips occurring, I spoke with the local Hyundai dealership and they said they do not have the tools to change out the clutch packs but on the Kona Limited and Ultimate with the 1.6L Turbo and 7-speed DCT, they just replace the transmission under warranty. They have done many and the Kona Limited and Ultimate have only been out for just over a year. At 150k + miles, there is no warranty and the tranny replacement was going to cost $6k! In essence, a 150k mile Elantra Eco is worth just half of the replacement so its End of Life (EOL) in this one Elantra ECO's case occurred just after 150k miles.
While rideshare is one of the harshest duty cycles you can drive a car into, remember my 18 Elantra ECO's lmpg was 43.2 mpg, down from 43.3 just two months ago. Meaning it was lightly driven vs 99.9 percent of other DCT equipped Hyundai's from the Sonata Eco, Kona Limited and Ultimate, and onto the Eco trim Elantra will be driven like.
What worries me just as much is the fact the Ioniq and Niro use similar 6-speed Hyundai DCTs and I am not sure they would wear any better? The 2 clutches being wear items and a $6k replacement at 150k miles could lead Hyundai into a direction that creates terrible PR for tens of thousands of owners in just 4 to 5-years from now.
I am posting speculation here as I was testing the 18 Elantra ECO's longevity and TCO under a harsh duty cycle called rideshare in our 150k mile test drive. It succeeded in covering my 150k mile target miles but not without causing me a lot of consternation so that I would not buy another model with the brands DCT under the hood.
So where does that leave us? Maybe the new Hyundai CVT (IVT) mated to the 2.0L will supply some more efficiency and reliability like the std. 6-speed AT used last year but I am not sure. I simply will not purchase and cannot recommend another DCT equipped Hyundai for the time being.
My brother picked up a Kona SE a bit over a year ago. Beats the EPA even with a 20-something driver at the wheel. Faultless, as I'd expect a Hyundai to be. Everything works as advertised, and it's dependable and efficient.
Kona AWD shares many chassis bits with the Ioniq and Elantra GT, but they raised the roof and added bigger tires to make the transition to CUV.
Good call on the 2.0L/6AT powertrain. I was never a fan of the DCT because it wasn't designed to have the clutches replaced. Imagine buying a car whose brakes were welded in place so worn pads required replacing the struts/hub/bearings/ball joints/discs for $2000 per axle. Wouldn't sell too well.
The dry-DCT is slowly going away and next year, the new 8-speed wet-clutch arrives in the Sonata-N and one variant of the '21 Optima. The 8AT conventional automatic gets bolted to the 1.6T in the Sonata and Optima and from what I'm reading, FE isn't that far off the DCT version. Credit the new SmartStream engine's greater thermal efficiency.
The 8 speed is based on the 6 speed, and so far it appears to offer the same efficiency and reliability of the 6 speed. The 6 speed has proven over the last decade to be one of the "good ones" on the market.
The DCT on the Ioniq/Niro has the electric motor to provide starting torque from 0rpm, so it doesn't need to slip the clutch to get the car moving. When all other DCTS are worn to the rivets, these hybrid gearboxes should still have plenty of life left. Based on road tests, H/K still has some work to do on the programming. Road testers using the cars in normal daily commuting still report manic-depression-themed shift algorithms.
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