2009 HCH IMA 2nd Battery failure, need advice

Discussion in 'General' started by djeff, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Thanks for the update , djeff. I've never owned a Honda hybrid , but had many new and used Honda's over the years. I am a fan of Honda. If they could convince me that they can build a competitive DURABLE hybrid car , I'd buy one.
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    The 06 with our son and daughter-in-law just went by 200,000 km. It's hanging in there, but the second battery is starting to get tempermental, even with the latest software, and still near-new.

    I had it for a couple of weeks, here I'm replacing the front brakes and doing bumper repair:

    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  3. djeff

    djeff Member

    Hello All

    My 2nd Update, sorry i am slow to post updates, but serious family issues keeps me busy with other stuff.

    My Honda dealer phoned me about 10 days ago and said they had ordered a replacement IMA battery pack. This was because the IMA light was back on, a second time. The Mechanic straight out said my old battery pack was toast. I asked what it would cost me for the replacement battery pack? They said it would be covered under the warranty extension some of you mentioned before. I was nervous they would gouge me for the installation or for buying the warranty, or some other fee.
    My 09 Civic Hybrid went to the dealer Friday February 5th. They installed the replacement IMA battery pack.

    I am happy to say i got a bill with all 0000.00 on it.

    I told the service advisor i was a happy Honda customer today.
    The cost to Honda i was told was $3000.00. They said If it was customer pay, it would have been considerably higher.
    I asked what happens if the battery pack goes bad again in 2 years. I mean that is how long the last two have lasted. The service advisor said we would have to cross that bridge if it happens. The advisor said we hope that Honda has made improvements to the battery pack the last few years, and it will last longer. I politely told her, what do i do. I mean if happens again, with a bad battery pack the car will very hard to sell, although it is drivable it becomes somewhat unsafe to drive. I also told the service advisor, i would like to stay with Honda, but they need to improve the green car lineup.
    I also said Honda's approach to it's green car lineup is dismal. Ok sure the 2016 Civic is supposed to be great, but no hybrid version. However that message of is, of course better said to Honda Corporate.
    So my thoughts today are to sell it in the next year or so, budget permitting.
    I have not talked to the service manager yet, but do intend to, and i will repost his answer, for the benefit of others who may encounter similar problems.

    It is an understatement, when i say all your advice and encouragement, really saved the day for this family. Thank you so so much. Yes we would have got through it somehow, but it would have involved considerable pain on various levels.

    To add joy to this posting, That same week my family got a new, for us, very real medical treatment, that is helping immensely.
    So touch wood, some good news for us. Thanks again

  4. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    Glad it worked out. Hope the other stuff works out for you too.

  5. rhwinger

    rhwinger Well-Known Member

    Glad it it all worked out well for you and your family - on all fronts.

  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    Good to hear they've replaced your battery. And yeah, see how it goes, but consider moving on to something else. We really should do the same with ours, while the getting is good.
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    I'm sceptical of the efficacy of the software updates. Our first battery went slowly/painfully to it's demise, recal'ing all the way, with all the updates. A replacement battery, less than 2 years in and all the latest software, is starting to do recal's too. Honda basically stopped producing this car, in what, 09, 10?
    BillLin likes this.
  8. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    Both of my HCH2 had the update. With a good pack and worn out LRR tires, I can squeak 50mpg in suburban driving (2/3 surface streets, 1/3 highway).

    The update brings the battery management more in line with how the Prius manages the battery with a more shallow depth of charge. It is nothing but goodness; however, it can't compensate for the shitty pack design and poor manufacturing quality now that Toyota owns 80% of Primearth and there is no secondary market for high drain NiMH "D" cells. IMHO, Honda and Toyota can't wait for the entire line of Honda NiMH hybrid product line to die out by attrition.

    Thank God for Bumblebee.
    BillLin likes this.
  9. djeff

    djeff Member

    Hello friends

    Here is my update as promised. I previously mentioned my intention to call the Honda Service Manager. I phoned last week and he no longer works at the dealership. I have no idea what happened. Maybe Honda Corporate monitors this website, among others. Maybe my scathing e-mail about the Honda green car, poor battery performance, got some action. I have no idea. I certainly hope the Manager did not take the fall for higher up problems. I will never know what really happened. I do know the new manager is way more supportive of hybrids, from a brief conversation. I had to get the new managers advice, because on a recent highway trip the car started surging. I thought here we go again. A different dealer found a slow oil leak in the oil filter, and fixed the problem before any serious issue's damaged the engine permanently. Apparently low oil pressure affects some solenoids that affects the CVT, hence the surging. No, the oil light did not come on. $150.00 all repaired and running normal. this all happened after theIMA battery pack was replaced recently.

    I am trying to find a replacement for my 2009 civic.
    1) Do any of you know if 2012 was when Honda switched to Lithium battery pack for the IMA system for the Civic?
    Are Honda's Lithium battery pack's more reliable than previous years of Civics? I would think so.
    We can not afford new, so a 2012 or newer could be an affordable, upgrade and remove the IMA battery issue's, i had with current 2009.

    2) I am also considering the Accord 2014, or 2015. Obviously more pricy than a Civic. but i have read good things about the Hybrid system and lithium battery in these model years of Accord.

    3) Lastly what about the now discontinued Lexus Hs250H. Very affordable. Kinda ugly but i could care less, but lexus should be very reliable.

    My preference would be a Tesla, but i can't wait 2+ years for prices to drop enough that i can afford one. I did test drive a Tesla, wow. i mean wow.

    Leaf will not work, prefer no Prius or Camry although i tested them as well.

    Any comments or other suggestions of other hybrids, would be very much appreciated.

  10. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    1) yes. Unknown but probable. Lithium battery packs demand robust battery management well beyond what is practical with NiMH.

    2) Okay.

    3) Unknown. Don't assume reliable without data. Also consider that the luxury brands, even when reliable, ALWAYS cost more to maintain.

    Good luck,

  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    @djeff, if you want to get a decent hybrid I'd put my money on a new 2015 Prius, or any used third gen Prius, 2010 onward.
  12. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    It's hard to go wrong with a 3rd gen Prius. I really wanted the 2016 , but I could NOT wait. I did get a super deal on the 2015.
  13. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    (mostly talking about hybrids below...)

    Djeff, you've stated that you'd prefer something other than the Prius or Camry. So what are you looking for and what's the top price? A highway cruiser like your HCH? I'm assuming you can beat the EPA rating on the highway. If highway isn't that important, then the two Ford hybrids would surpass your HCH easily and match anything else in the medium to big sedan range. The newer Accord sounds great but they are few and likely still pricey. You mentioned an oddball (IMO) one like the "Tesla" and how you can't wait 2+ years for the price to come down. If you're talking about the "affordable" sedan that's coming, it'll take a lot more than a couple of years for it to come into what I'm guessing is a used hybrid car price range. If you're talking about the Model S, I haven't priced the used ones but I cannot imagine a $70k car going for what a used mainstream hybrid car would go for. Then there are some recent, apparently good hybrid attempts from other car makers. Lots of choices for you to balance your needs and wants.

    Good luck,
  14. djeff

    djeff Member

    Hello all

    It's been months since I was online, but I successfully sold the civic hybrid at a fair price for buyer and me. Full disclosure re battery replacement in the past to the buyer.

    So now I am shopping again. Would Appreciate feedback.

    I am in Vancouver Canada shopping.
    My future cars principle use, will be.
    60% city miles 40% highway miles. I live 500 miles from Vancouver so we do some long road trips and lotsa winter driving.
    I want a used vehicle with 50,000 km or less, ideal price point is $15000.00 with a little flexibility upwards.
    My preference would be split in previous, or technology close to that. I realize plug prices are a lot higher.

    1) Test drove a Prius 2010 touring beautiful condition 60 km for $13500.00 Canadian. When I went to test drive the battery was dead. Dealer was in A rush to go home as it was close to closing so no test drive, just sat in it. Yes I would test drive for sure if serious. know battery's they can get drained over time. Prius is Still under warrenty until. May 2017.i talked to taxi drivers about model years that are best for Prius. For the 2010 I saw some issues with antilock brake voluntary recall, and recall inspection needed on brake hydraulic pump that can crack. Reading this I got nervous after my previous issues with my 2009 Honda, and dealer not disclosing 2009 hybrid battery pack issue that I just sold. The Prius also has about $3500.00 repaired collision damage. taxi drivers said Prius 2010 is a bad year for Prius and to avoid that year. What do people here say re this model and year Prius?

    2) I test drove a 2014 Honda Accord hybrid touring, I liked it very much. 44,000 km. But the price is about $27,000.00 so,clearly outside my price range. However I test drove it so that I would know if I liked the vehicle.
    A very close friend who is entirely capable and a is a high level racing mechanic, has offered to buy a damaged Honda Accord hybrid or any other vehicle I want. And says he can save me about 30% off used market prices. He said the savings increase as the vehicle price increases. So the above 2014 in a cheaper trim level ex-l Honda Accord hybrid being rebuilt by my friend gets me close to my price point. Of course a rebuilt means I will have potential warranty issues. My mechanic friend said each manufacturer is different re warrenty on rebuilds. What do people say on here re this strategy?

    3) test drove a 2012 Hyundai hybrid very nice ride and interior, gorgeous sunroof etc. They want $18,000.00 but I notice lots more ads and prices are often lower by about $4000 or $ 5000 ballpark, than Prius and Honda accords hybrids. I love the lifetime warranty on battery pack, compared to my issues with 2009 civic hybrid. I have no experience with Hyundai though.

    4) last car I test drove was Camry hybrid. Nice ride and I like comfort and size but I am than Locked into older technology for a lot of years. I want to buy something that I will be happy with for at least 5 years. That being said

    I also test drove and crossed off the list for various reasons, the 2010 Lexus HS250h, 2006 Lexus rx400h. Although i liked both vehicles a family member could not get into vehicle because the seat is too high off the ground compared to a sedan. I was also shocked and disappointed in my treatment at the lexis dealer. That would be another long post. I did complain to Lexus corporate however. Also, pricy repairs for Lexus if needed.
    Crossed off highlander hybrid 2006, too high again. Nissan Leaf is a no, re distance from major city's. The local Chevy dealer is big time against hybrids and has never had a volt on the lot. Ford dealer is ok re fusion, but I am Leary about that choice, and the fact Ford lied about mileage of fusion bothers me a lot. Audi A3 E-torn would be high on list if it was in the used market for 3-4 years to get to my price point.
    I phoned numerous mechanics for hybrid advice that went nowhere fast.

    Thanks ahead of time for advice
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    The 12 volt battery? No big deal. 60,000 km's right? :)

    I would persevere, incompetent dealership shouldn't be a deal breaker. They could easily jump start it for a test drive, and make new battery condition of sale.
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016

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