2009 HCH IMA 2nd Battery failure, need advice

Discussion in 'General' started by djeff, Jan 19, 2016.

  1. djeff

    djeff Member

    Hello
    I have a 2009 HCH with 70000k very clean. I bought the car march 2010. The IMA battery went bad in 2012 and Honda replaced it under warranty. Now this past week the IMA light came on again. I took it to the local dealer. They phoned me and said i needed a software update. I asked how much would it cost for the software update. They said about $250.00, i said can i wait and not damage the car, the advisor said yes no problem. So i said lets wait 6 months until my budget improves. I get back to the dealer to pick up the car, and the advisor says they did me a favour, because the mechanic was not busy, and they did the software update at a discount, only $120.00. So i say thanks, meanwhile i had completely forgotten about my previous 2012 IMA issues. Then when i get home i see the error code on the bill is POA7F-HV with a mechanic's note, battery capacity serious deterioration.
    This is exactly where i was in 2012, i know it is just a matter of time before i get a complete battery failure. I feel like the dealer tricked me, by doing the software update without my permission, to extend the battery life. It is my understanding the software update is so the electric engine uses less battery to preserve the battery longer, perhaps getting out of the warranty period. All my service work has always been at Honda. Whenever i have had service work in the past i get an email from Honda Canada asking for me to rate the dealer service. This time all i get is an e-mail from the dealer saying if you have any questions give us a call thanks for your business. Is this deliberant misdirection or am i being too cynical? sorry for the sob story but we need the car to get to medical appts for ill family members. I certainly can not afford to pay for a new battery, any advice on how to proceed would be appreciated. I have not yet contacted the dealer or Honda with my concerns. No the IMA battery light is not on right now, but it is only a matter of time. i have been told the replacement IMA battery pack only has a 1 year warranty? Two batteries in 5 years is ridiculous. We only have one Honda dealer where i live.
     
  2. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    We have an 06 in the family. IMA light went on in Jan 2014 with 159,000 km's. Within a week or two the battery was replaced, with Honda paying the cost of the new battery, even though the car was slightly out of warranty. The labour charge for the battery swap we paid, it was around $150.

    The car is just passing 200,000 km's now. I've recently had opportunities to drive it, and noticed on at least one occasion the "recalibration" behaviour, so I suspect even with the latest software, the battery is starting to decline, similar to the first.

    For your case, it seems a bit astounding that they would ask $250 to hook up a laptop for a few minutes. I would get in touch with Honda, explain all of what's happened so far, see what they say.
     
  4. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    Indeed. You're lucky to get 2-3 years of typical driving out of the Honda replacement packs. I recommend you pursue an HA grid charger/discharger kit to make sure you get the most out of it.

    I have six sets of HCH2 subpacks and 4 cases to service our two '06 :)

    Steve
     
  5. all_about_the_glide

    all_about_the_glide Well-Known Member

    I just put a new Bumblebee battery in my 07 at 160k miles 3 weeks ago...2300 bucks and about an hour to install with the help of a certain someone the long time members would know.

    Rock freakin solid (even on conjested city streets) so far in brutally cold weather...better than I remember it performing when I bought it with 27k on the clock.
     
  6. rhwinger

    rhwinger Well-Known Member

    You can put a new battery in, but you know, you still have an older car and what else is one the verge of failure. I was in a similar situation recently with my 06 HCHII. It was stolen and wrecked by a teenager. Body shop did a great job on the repairs, but brake system trouble lights continued. The IMA light came on after a few weeks. Before the accident, I was going to upgrade the stereo, new tires, new battery. Costs nearly as much as the car was worth. Now, what to do?

    I finally bought a new Sonata hybrid. It may not be quite as efficient, but you don't have to bust your balls to break EPA. Lifetime warranty on the battery. Yeah, I miss the 60 mpg commute capability. But the ride and comfort is a major improvement. The rear seats fold down when you need some room back there.

    When I really miss my trusty HCHII, I just turn up the radio a bit and enjoy the tunes.

    I know decisions like this suck. It will get better.

    Good luck,

    Bob
     
  7. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    Again, he's under warranty for the next 3-4 years, 60K miles. The above link is the letter and TSB reference.

    As far as the patch goes, if it's for the battery management, it shouldn't cost more than $0. Secondly, it's actually a good thing. It modifies the BCM to manage the battery pack more like the Prius with a more shallow discharge. It should improve life and not significantly affect mileage.

    Lastly, since I didn't say it bluntly... take a copy of that letter to the dealer and demand a new battery. The diagnostic steps for that code is to replace the battery pack. They should have done it. I'd also ask for your money back on the update.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  8. rhwinger

    rhwinger Well-Known Member

    When my first battery was replaced, the warranty for the replacement battery was considerably less than 3 years, 60K miles.
     
  9. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    rhwinger, I get the feeling you and I aren't communicating effectively.

    You have an 06. He has an 09. Battery warranty for ALL 09-11 in ALL states extended to 10yr/150K miles as of Mar, 2015.

    An 09 is under warranty for approximately 3-4 years from NOW.

    An 09 with 70,000mi per the OP is under warranty for another 80K miles (I mis-typed 60K above).

    His battery is under warranty, and it will be so for the sooner of 3-4 more years and 80k miles. Am I missing something?
     
  10. rhwinger

    rhwinger Well-Known Member

    1.) djeff: 'I have a 2009 HCH with 70000k very clean. I bought the car march 2010. The IMA battery went bad in 2012 and Honda replaced it under warranty.'

    2.) and 'i have been told the replacement IMA battery pack only has a 1 year warranty?'

    I understand that the original warranty was extended to 10 years/ 150K miles, and that there is only 70K on the car now. When my first IMA battery was replaced, at the 75K mile point, the warranty for the replacement IMA battery was something like 36K miles/just a year or two.

    I can't say for sure, but it may be that the warranty for the 2012 replacement IMA battery may be different, which is what djeff is being told in 2.). I realize the 10 year point for the car would be 2019. The dealer could very well be wrong on the 1 year replacement IMA battery warranty. Sounds like someone at Honda America could clarify.

    Thanks and sorry for any confusion.

    Bob
     
  11. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    Ah... I see the distinction.

    It is my understanding that simply replacing a part under warranty does not supersede the original warranty, i.e., it doesn't matter how many batteries they put in or how long they last. They are on the hook to replace batteries until the warranty period is up.

    Additionally, parts replaced under warranty do not extend the warranty, i.e., you get one replaced 1 month before the warranty is up, and it craps out two months later, you're out of warranty.

    At the time of replacement, there may have been concern due to the age/mileage. I wasn't making that distinction.

    Steve
     
    rhwinger likes this.
  12. all_about_the_glide

    all_about_the_glide Well-Known Member

    It might take a pack every other year to get some of these cars past the 10y 150k mark. Knocking on wood that my Bumblebee Battery or Bumblebee the Co. keep operating for at least 4 yrs (that's the term of the warranty). It will be my daily driver for the next two years, then my not quite driving age kids will get their feet into it.​
     
  13. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    When I'm talking longevity issues, I'm talking Honda. I have some insight into the lengths to which Bumblebee goes to ensure quality balanced builds for maximum life, and I have no concerns about their quality or longevity.
     
  14. all_about_the_glide

    all_about_the_glide Well-Known Member

    @ S Kieth- I have high expectations , as well, after more than a little research that's why I went with Bumblebee...plus they were nice and very helpful over the phone and email. But in this economy in this world...you never know.
     
  15. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    As well you should. I have had many personal conversations with the owner, and all signs point to his longevity. If there are Insights and Civics out there that need packs, he will be around.

    Steve
     
  16. all_about_the_glide

    all_about_the_glide Well-Known Member

    Even given that's brand new and me trying to stay out of it to minimize energy conversion losses...it performs like a much bigger pack: long sustained levels of real assist while accelerating on to the interstate, swallows regen from descents and exits whole, all while smoothly blipping from 5 to 8 bar. If I have my choice of cars and not a lot of stuff or people to haul around Im taking my Honda over the Prius.
     
    rhwinger likes this.
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    That seems a very sensible interpretation. I wouldn't put it past Honda or the dealerships to argue though, lol.
     
  18. djeff

    djeff Member

    Here is my update!
    Honda Canada did eventually send me an email survey for feedback on my service appointment, so i was being too cynical on that specific topic. I sent Honda a very honest & scathing email, it went to Honda Canada. I mentioned how many other car companies are improving their electric and plug in cars every yea. I told honda how i waited for the Honda Accord plug in, for 2 years. What a joke that turned into. I told them it was just a compliance car. not even put up for sale in Canada. Now they have now stopped selling it. I also mentioned VW emissions corruption etc. I said Honda better get their act together, in regards to hybrids, electrics, plugins. And i said much more, anyway back to the IMA battery.

    The service manager replied quite fast, his reply is as follows.
    ( if the IMA battery issue leads to where the IMA battery requires replacement, there is a warranty extension for this. This warranty extension provides you with a total of 10 years or 240,000 kilometres, whichever occurs first, coverage, from the warranty start date. The warranty start date on this unit is January 11, 2010. You would have received a letter from Honda Canada on this warranty extension in January or February of 2015.)

    I told him i never actually received such a letter, he said it will still be available to me. I asked if the warranty extension has a fee attached to it, he was evasive.
    On tuesday the IMA battery light is back on. I said to the dealer it was no surprise to me. When i told the service manager that the IMA light was back on, he said he would recommend battery pack replacement to Honda Canada. We did talk on the phone, he about dealers have to tow the line in regards to Corporate policy's on repairs and replacement, and that my email to Honda was valuable. I am cautiously hopeful.

    I like the car, but eventually i want a plugin, or maybe a Tesla, yeah maybe Tesla after that warranty win, lol. I think when it is all resolved i will sell the car and lose a little money on the sale. Its not like this issue will get better long term.

    Thank You everyone for your advice, it is extremely helpful, and i am very grateful. With the family challenges that are not appropriate to post here, it is crucial we have a reliable vehicle. As per your suggestion i will ask for a refund on the software update. The car is booked to back into the dealer this tuesday. I will keep you posted.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  19. S Keith

    S Keith Well-Known Member

    Glad to hear back from you. Thought we were talking to crickets.
     
  20. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Thanks for the update , djeff. I've never owned a Honda hybrid , but had many new and used Honda's over the years. I am a fan of Honda. If they could convince me that they can build a competitive DURABLE hybrid car , I'd buy one.
     

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