Hyundai’s IONIQ HEV, PHEV and BEV Preview

Discussion in 'Hyundai' started by xcel, Dec 25, 2015.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I went out again to try and complete the steady states. I completed the 50 and 55 mph long loops but on the return of the 60 mph loop I ran into yet another vehicle overturned which all but shut down the 5. Damn it, I have 3-overnights and 7-hours into trying to get these and all I have is 50 and 55 mph results to show for it. Damn it to hell!!! I will give it one more try tomorrow night but 7-hours are wasted and I will possibly waste another 3-hours tomorrow night if something gets in the way of data collection on the 5 during the overnight hours.

    I5 Accident this morning

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Regarding what I did get, they look damn good but not enough to complete the non-calibrated graph. The full tank calibration run begins this coming Wednesday.

    Uncalibrated results for both 50 and 55 mph look like this:

    Temps were HOT as in 81 to 89 degrees F and winds were out of the East at about 10 mph while undertaking the NB and SB long segment runs.

    Remember that the Ioniq Blue is setup as close to perfect as one can get a car. Alignment is dead on within spec, she had a fresh oil change just 1,000 miles ago, a full tank of good fuel, and the high temps early this morning are surely providing a little boost to the results. I just do not have an offset from a calibrated drive in it yet to compare.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue - Incomplete and uncalibrated Steady States:

    85.7 mpg at 50 mph and 76.8 mpg at 55 mph.

    Compare the above with the Prius Prime and Two Eco Prototype.

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
    Jay and BillLin like this.
  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Thanks for these, Wayne! The numbers were much better than I expected given the somewhat disappointing results in the Ioniq LTD:

    [​IMG]

    The Ioniq Blue redeems the Ioniq. I think the Ioniq Blue will pull way ahead of the Prii as the speeds increase. The temps were high for your run but the wind was fairly stiff too. The apparent wind will be nearly head on in both directions. The big question mark for me is why the massive difference in steady state FE between the Blue and LTD?
     
    BillLin and xcel like this.
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    The Limited is surely overwhelmed by those 17's. We saw a somewhat steep fall off with the Elantra Limited and its 17s vs. SE w/ its 16's and especially the ECO with the 1.4L GDI-T Kappa and its 15" alloys with low RRc tires. That Eco blew out its EPA to levels unseen since the 2012 Passat TDI.

    I am assuming the Ioniq Blue's aFCD is dead on which remains to be seen. Big question mark here... The Limited was found to be slightly positive which I cannot provide enough kudos to Hyundai for.

    Based on the EPA alone, the 59-mpg highway rated Ioniq Blue has a +9.3 percent EPA differential vs the 54-mpg highway rated Ioniq Limited. I am betting the SEL with the 15s and Limited with the 17s were commingled to come up with the 54 mpg highway rating. In reality, the Limited is a 52 mpg highway rated vehicle vs. its 54 mpg highway rating from the 67.5 mph crossover as derived from its steady states. That is a 3.7 percent falloff from its EPA.

    The Ioniq Blue trims non-calibrated 50 and 55 mph results recorded this morning vs the Limited's are approximately 18 percent higher. 85.7 mpg vs 71.5 mpg (+19.9%) and 76.8 mpg vs 66.0 mpg (+16.4%).

    The following additions are no better than educated guesses. The alignment is possibly worth an additional one percent, fresh non-break-in oil probably adds another one percent, the Limited's 10 percent ethanol laced fuel vs. the diluted down to 1.5 percent ethanol concentration in the Blue probably adds two to three percent, and the high temps probably add another one percent. Taking the most optimistic additions of the above, 15.3 percent plus the Limited's 3.7 percent optimistic EPA highway account for the 19 percent delta. Again, assuming the Blue trims aFCD offset is right on and the back of the envelope guesses on setup are correct?

    Wayne
     
    kbergene, Jay and BillLin like this.
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Its done other than the aFCD calibration. While yesterdays temps (81 to 89 degrees F) and winds (E at 10 mph) for the 50 and 55 mph NB/SB results are in different conditions than this morning's, at least we have some baselines.

    This mornings 60, 65, and 70 mph long segment runs occurred with temps of 73 to 74 degrees F and winds out of the W at 0 to 5 mph. Unfortunately there was sporadic light to medium rain for the 65 and 70 mph runs on one leg of each segment but there was little I could do about that. It may have skewed the 65 and 70 mph results 1 to 2 mph lower than they would normally have achieved but even the start finish of the rain was at different locations. This is typical of rain along the Southern Calif. coast and I have no way to compensate for it. I was compensating SoC gain or loss with the same offsets I used from the Ioniq Limited and they appear pretty solid. The Blue saw far smaller SoC swings on this long route (+/- 170 ft delta with the same start finish elevation) than the Limited did on the flatter (+/- 100 ft delta with the same start finish elevation) Wisconsin Steady State route I captured the Limited Trims Steady State data from.

    2017 Hyundai Ioniq Blue Trim

    [​IMG]
    Taken just moments ago after completing the Steady State data collection.

    [​IMG]

    Each of the 5 speeds were approximately .5 mph short of actual per the Garmin. Meaning you needed to be traveling 50.5, 55.5, 60.5, 65.5, and 70.5 mph per the speedometer to be traveling at 50, 55, 60, 65, and 70 mph actual.

    The 59 mpg EPA Highway crossover occurred at a calculated 68.9 mph indicating the 59 mpg highway rating is solid. It appears at first glance to be anyway. I will repost this with the fully calibrated result when I complete a full tank or multiple tanks beginning this coming Wednesday. Either way, the Ioniq Blue is damn efficient on the highway!!!

    About all for now as I have to get to bed but what the above shows is Hyundai owns the highway when it comes to maximum achievable efficiency from 50 mph on up in the Ioniq Blue trim. I suspect the 55/54 mpg city/hwy rated SEL would achieve very similar results if setup similarly as I did the Blue.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin, Jay and kbergene like this.
  5. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Very enlightening, Wayne. After much thought, I'm skeptical of your conclusion that the big difference between the Ioniq Blue and Ioniq LTD fuel economy is due to the wheels / tires. Case in point: The Honda Civic hatch LX and hatch Sport trims have identical city and highway EPA ratings even though the Sport is 50 lbs heavier and has 235/40 18s vs 215/55 16s for the LX. (I don't believe the EPA ratings here either, BTW.) Point is: if you were to swap wheels between the blue and LTD, I'm pretty sure the blue would still pound the LTD in FE. Something else is going on and I think it has to do with differences in the way the two hybrid systems are set up.
     
    BillLin and xcel like this.
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jay:

    You could be very well right and this is just an instance of me trying to fit a hypothesis to match the data. Maybe Hyundai provided a different throttle and shift map for the Limited that is a compromise between Eco and Sport modes? Under Steady State CC consideration however - Steady States are always undertaken in this manner, any difference related to those two parameters would be negated. I never use A/C during these test runs so that was not a factor either. I also did not notice much in the way of speed swings in Eco mode - allowing speed droop during any given climb - between the Limited and Blue either. Both exhibited no more than +/- 1 mph delta from the target and a tap of the CC + and - after a slight ascent/descent to maintain target speed was all that was needed.

    When I looked back at the Ioniq Limited's runs, SoC swing were significantly higher with less average elevation delta (WI +/- 100 ft) vs the Blue's (CA +/- 170 ft) long segment run. Why is that?

    Ioniq Limited SoC Changes within a given single run.

    (2) 3-bar swings
    (2) 2-bar swings
    (3) 1-Bar swings
    (3) 0-bar swings

    Ioniq Blue SoC Changes within a given single run.

    (1) 2-bar swings
    (6) 1-bar swings
    (3) 0-bar swings

    We also have the temperature differences during which the Steady States were completed between the two trims. Blue trim with temps from 81 to 89 degrees F for the 50 and 55 mph runs and 73 to 74 degrees F for the 60, 65, and 70 mph runs. The Limited was tested with temperatures from 59 to 61 degrees F. That is 2.5+ percent right there.

    All of this could be moot if the Blue trims full tank(s) calibration drive shows the aFCD to be significantly overstating results vs. actual.

    Wayne
     
    Jay and BillLin like this.
  7. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    Wayne, thanks for the hard work you do for all of us. Looking at your result for the Ioniq Blue I think this is the best mpg steady state speeds of any vehicle
    I have seen and perhaps you have tested. Looks like from your result Hyundai did not have their thumb on the scale when it came to the Ioniq mpg's for the EPA.
    I am now have a serious lean toward the Ioniq Blue for our 2010 Prius replacement....
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  8. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Hi everyone,

    I'm new to this forum, so first, thank you all for your very knowledgeable posts. Thanks to Wayne especially - I've been learning a tremendous amount since I found this site a few months ago, and the Steady States are particularly fascinating/helpful. They seem like they take a lot of time and effort, so thank you for everything that you do.

    I have several questions about the Ioniq Hybrid and upcoming Ioniq Plug-in, but I'll limit them to two questions at the moment.

    One, Wayne, I noticed yesterday that you originally recorded the Ioniq Blue's steady state mpg at 55 mph as 81-point-something, but then later corrected that to 76.8 mpg. Why the change from 81 to 76.8? A 9 mpg drop (85 to 76) between 50 and 55 mph seems like a pretty steep one - I would have expected this more between 65 and 70 mph, not 50 and 55.

    Two, these Steady States seem to further confirm that the Ioniq has the 4th Gen Prius beat in several areas: sticker price, exterior style, interior comfort, cargo space, user-friendly tech (though Wayne points out that the RCC in the Prius is better than in the Ioniq), warranty (Hyundai's bumper-to-bumper, powertrain, and hybrid battery warranties are all significantly better than Toyota's), mountain fuel economy (based on Wayne's 4,000 foot climb and descent in the Ioniq Blue a few weeks ago) and now, highway fuel economy. But I was wondering what people thought about two perhaps less tangible metrics.

    First, is there something to be said for the fact that Toyota has almost 20 years of experience making the Prius? I know that Hyundai has been making the Sonata Hybrid since 2011, and that the Ioniq shares the Kia Niro's powertrain, but if we fast forward 5-7 years into the future, is a 2017 Ioniq more likely to have problems than a 2017 Prius?

    Second, at least historically, Toyota has a much better reputation for overall reliability than Hyundai, regardless of the specific model. I know JD Power argues that this is largely a thing of the past, that Hyundai has caught up to Toyota and Honda in reliability and that today, any lingering consumer perception that Hyundai makes unreliable cars is basically outdated, and frankly wrong. At the same time, though, I've read that in recent years, some new Elantras, Sonatas, Tucsons, and Santa Fes have had problems with rust, sometimes even in the first 1-3 years of ownership. So I'm wondering what people think about rust. Are folks at all concerned that in 3-5 years the Ioniq could have rust issues? Could the fact that the sticker price of the Ioniq is $2,000 - $3,000 less than the Prius be simply because it uses cheaper quality metal and other materials?

    Thanks again everyone for your insightful posts. I know basically nothing about cars, and before I found this site in June, I thought that cars just "got" a certain mpg - so you all have been teaching me a lot.
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  9. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Also, since I'm asking for so much information, it would probably be polite to provide some about myself and why I'm asking:

    In June, my 2001 Civic finally died with about 150,000 miles on it. I ended up replacing it with a used, certified pre-owned, 2016 Civic LX with 9,000 miles on it. For what I'm used to, this is basically a new car, and since I was able to pick it up for 16K, it didn't really make sense to me to spend 6-7K more on an Ioniq Blue. But I was feeling bad afterwards that I didn't buy a hybrid, so I started researching how to improve my mpg in the Civic, which brought me to the Civicx website, which eventually brought me here. I drive 80% highway, 20% city, and I live just outside NYC where there are a lot of 50 mph parkways that are perfect for maximum highway mpg (when there isn't traffic, which is kind of always). So far, I've been averaging 48 mpg overall (I use the "double click method" at the gas station, and then just divide my indicated trip meter miles by the gallons consumed). My best single-trip mpg is a drive from NYC down to the New Jersey/Delaware border (100% highway miles) where I averaged 60 mpg indicated, speeds averaging between 55 and 62 mph. Tires were at the recommended 32 PSI, and since I'm not really good at hypermiling yet, all I do is use cruise control everywhere, and I do this kind of training-wheels version of DWL where I use the CC buttons on the steering wheel to drop my speed 3-5 mph when I go up hills.

    Decent though 48 mpg in a non-turbo Civic may be, I've recently been considering trading in my Civic for either a Prius Prime or an Ioniq Plug-in. I don't really have a great reason other than that, while 48 mpg is cool, 85 mpg is cooler. And the federal tax credit, NY State EV tax rebate, and dealer discounts would put the plug-ins in my price range, while the regular hybrids are still too expensive for me. From my own back of the envelope calculations, with all these discounts, either plug-in hybrid would pay for itself in about 5 years.

    All in all, I really want to like the Ioniq, and I'm particularly hopeful about the Plug-in version. I have this weird, kind of unwarranted brand loyalty to Honda - I've only ever owned Civics and Accords (my first car was an '89 Accord hatchback) - so the idea of switching to Hyundai is kind of a big step for me. But I think the sad truth is that Honda just isn't interested in making an excellent compact hybrid that can compete with the Prius or the Ioniq; instead, they seem to be moving more in the direction of making decently fuel efficient, 4,000 pound luxury battleships. The more I read about the Clarity Plug-in, the less I like it ($35K, 7 gallon tank, only 42 mpg gasoline only). I know there are rumors of a 2018 compact Honda hybrid, but we'll see.

    Anyway, for me it's going to come down to the Ioniq Plug-in vs. the Prius Prime. I have high hopes for the Ioniq Plug-in (though I'm a little nervous about the fuel efficiency with those 16 inch tires). As I said, I drive mostly highway miles, so the Ioniq Plug-in seems like a better choice for me than the Prius Prime, and while I really do like so many things about the Prius Prime, the rear end of it just looks like a really gross pair of puckered lips. I don't generally care about the looks of a car, but if I'm going to spend 20+ K on something, I can't look at those lips every day for the next 10-15 years.

    Thanks again, and sorry for the long/double post.
     
    BillLin likes this.
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris:

    Thanks for the detailed information, questions, and your work in the Civic!

    I screwed up the 55-mph math two nights ago as I quickly looked into my Steady State notebook and posted the wrong results for 55 mph at around 03:00 am. I caught and corrected it early this morning when completing the entire regimen of speeds and FE for the Ioniq Blue graph. I am prepping to take the Ioniq across the country on Wednesday morning and have tens of hours of other items I am working on leaving me a bit sleep deprived right now. In fact, I am heading out to complete the same on my short segment runs with an 18 Camry LE Hybrid in just a few minutes so must keep this a bit short.

    Regarding reliability, nobody will ever go wrong with a 4th gen Prius or Prius Prime with its noted bulletproof reliability. The Hyundai warranty will keep you under an umbrella just in case however. We picked up a 17 Sonata Hybrid Limited earlier this year and the warranty is what made the difference vs. a Camry or Accord Hybrid. The Pano roof is what brought my wife into it actually. Former Accord owner here so I understand the Honda family mentality. The 17 Accord Hybrid with similar equipment and lack of Pano roof was just too expensive to consider vs. the Sonata Limited Hybrid for us. I am a big fan of the 10th gen Civic with that 1.5T in all its various form factors and trims as you probably know as well. The performance AND efficiency really make it a standout.

    Getting back to the Ioniq, the Limited trim under performed a bit (2 mpg under its EPA highway rating at 67.5 mph) whereas the Ioniq Blue exceeded my expectations by topping the entire industry. That said, on a percentage basis, the 4th Gen Prius is still very strong. Meaning close on the highway and it will topple the Ioniq family in stop and crawl and light to light city work.

    Regarding pricing, the 17 Prius/Prius Prime can be picked up for less dollars today given the discounts and arrives with all the advanced safety equipment plus LEDs standard. If it were me, an Ioniq SEL with the Tech or similarly equipped upcoming Ioniq PHEV-27 with $5k off either would push it beyond the Prius/Prius Prime lineup imho. Meaning I could overlook the lack of LEDs and the less smooth RCC on the Ioniq for the more acceptable exterior appearance, much better tall driver ergonomics, and a generation ahead infotainment solution(s). Toyota's infotainment is really disappointing imho. Even with the latest in the 18 Camry. While driving the 18 Camry to the airport earlier today, it locked up with no hardware buttons working on the entire panel. I have seen similar infotainment malfunctions in numerous 2016 and 2017 Honda's as well.

    Regarding rust, I have not seen or experienced Hyundai rusting myself as there is a heck of a long warranty to cover that. Let us know what you find in that regard.

    Sorry for meandering. Too little sleep, too much work to do, and too little time to do it in. :(

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  11. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Wayne, thanks for that explanation. You make a good point about Hyundai’s warranty providing an umbrella in the event of any reliability problems. And I guess, as a business model, Hyundai’s longer warranties (compared to Toyota and Honda) can only really work as long as Hyundai cars don’t have long-term problems with reliability – otherwise, it would be a pretty expensive warranty program, especially considering that, one, Hyundai sells their models for less than Honda and Toyota, and two, this doesn’t seem to translate into greater market share (given that, I believe, Corollas and Camrys out-sell Elantras and Sonatas).


    I’m still a little surprised by the Ioniq Blue’s 9 mpg drop from 50 to 55 mph – the 2016 Civic Touring only drops 3 mpgs (58 to 55) between 50 and 55 mph – but 76.8 miles per gallon at 55 mph is still a fantastic number. This car is a monster on the highway, and I’m particularly interested in/impressed with its 45-60 mph fuel economy, given my own commute.


    As far as rust goes, I brought it up only because I’ve seen a few stories like this floating around on the internet:


    https://www.consumeraffairs.com/new...fety-and-rust-problems-once-again-040213.html


    The article’s from 2013, and is largely about 2006-2013 models, so I’m not sure if these problems are still happening in more recent models.


    Anyway, good luck with the cross country trip in the Ioniq Blue. Hope it’s another record breaker.
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris:

    Thanks and I have completed the trip including the offset. It is negative unfortunately but not much. I will repost the graph sometime this week when I am home in Calif.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Jay, Carcus and BillLin like this.
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    2018 Hyundai Ioniq a 2018 Green Car of the Year Finalist by Green Car Journal

    The Hyundai Ioniq was just named a Green Car of the Year finalist by the Green Car Journal. The Ioniq was recognized as a finalist among four other vehicles - 2018 Honda Accord, 2018 Honda Clarity, 2018 Hyundai Ioniq, 2018 Nissan LEAF, and 2018 Toyota Camry - in this highly competitive eco-focused segment. The winner will be revealed in the Technology Pavilion at the Los Angeles Convention Center on Thursday, November 30, at 8 a.m. PST.

    2018 Hyundai Ioniq Blue

    [​IMG]

    A hallmark of the industry’s efforts to offer higher efficiency and improved environmental impact, the award reflects Green Car Journal’s examination of all vehicles, fuels and technologies in the space. Finalists are selected for their achievements in raising the bar for environmental performance based on efficiency, performance, ‘newness,’ affordability, and overall environmental achievement. The winner is selected through a majority vote by a jury that includes auto enthusiast Jay Leno, Green Car Journal editors, and leaders from other notable environmental and efficiency organizations.

    The Ioniq is the first eco-focused vehicle in the world to offer three distinct electrified powertrains on a single, dedicated vehicle platform – the Ioniq Hybrid, Plug-in Hybrid and Electric models. Hyundai’s approach for the Ioniq line delivers an uncompromising design and driving experience coupled with the latest in safety and convenience technologies, making it an appealing choice for a wide range of buyers...
     
    BillLin likes this.
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    2018 Hyundai Ioniq Wins Women’s World Car of the Year

    The 2018 Hyundai Ioniq, available in three electrified powertrains, earned the Women’s World Car of the Year Supreme Award – the top prize given by the all-female jury comprised of respected international automotive journalists. Jurors called Ioniq a “clear winner” among more than 400 initial contenders, and awarded the vehicle the top honor in the competitive Green Car category.

    [​IMG]

    The Ioniq is the first eco-focused vehicle platform in the world to offer Hybrid (HEV), Plug-in Hybrid (PHEV) and Electric (BEV) models. Hyundai’s Ioniq lineup delivers an uncompromising design coupled with the latest in safety and convenience technologies, making it an appealing choice for a wide range of buyers. For the awards competition, all three Ioniq variants were considered and treated as one car for voting purposes.

    The jurors called Ioniq “a clear winner” and a “standout” especially in a year of extremely tight competition.

    Ioniq also earned the 2017 Green Good Design Award from the Chicago Athenaeum: Museum of Architecture and Design and the European Centre for Architecture Art Design and Urban Studies, and has been named a Green Car of the Year finalist by the Green Car Journal.

    Women's World Car of the Year is unique world-wide. It is the only automotive award voted on exclusively by women. Judges in the WWCOTY awards are not voting for "a woman's car". Rather, they vote as experienced journalists, assess cars accordingly, and consider what they think women would like to buy. This difference makes the Women’s World Car of the Year Supreme Award one of the most unique in the industry.

    WWCOTY Voting Procedures

    Female judges for the Women’s World Car of the Year Awards nominate their preferences. This year 420 cars were on the first nomination list, whittled down to the top 60. Judges then vote on those cars by allocating points. Voting is by secret ballot and audited by international accountancy company, Grant Thornton, from their Auckland (NZ) office.

    #Ioniq
     
    BillLin likes this.
  16. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    Don't see a 2018 available on the Hyundai web site under vehicles. They have a 2018 plug in hybrid coming this fall, but that's it.
     
    BillLin and xcel like this.
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Thunderstuck:

    They are coming but not released yet. EPA has the HEV and BEV ratings for the 2018 posted now too.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  18. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    When are they going to be released? Unusual for a mfr to wait until it's actually 2018 to release the 2018's. Seems like it's usually in April, kind of like when Costco starts putting up the Christmas trees.
     
    Jay and BillLin like this.
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Thunderstruck
    :D :D :D

    Hyundai has released their hybrid lineup months into the new year almost to a tee. The 2018 Sonata HEV and PHEV are also being held back. They have a number of them at their Corporate campus - Sonata HEV/PHEVs and Ioniq PHEVs - but none are available to the public yet. I am not sure why they use that cadence with their HEV/PHEV lineup??? They sell the Ioniq PHEV overseas already too.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  20. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Moving on to the 2018 Hyundai Ioniq PHEV, I just saw the official specs on the Hyundai media site and they are now showing 29-miles AER.

    [​IMG]

    A nice Thanksgiving day present just weeks before it begins to reach dealership showrooms.

    Wayne
     
    Jay and BillLin like this.

Share This Page