Hyundai’s IONIQ HEV, PHEV and BEV Preview

Discussion in 'Hyundai' started by xcel, Dec 25, 2015.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bill:

    Good catch as I did not know they had released the PHEV pricing until this evening!!!

    At some recent point in time, Kia secretly revealed their 2018 Niro PHEV-26 pricing.

    2018 Kia Niro PHEV-26

    [​IMG]

    MSRP/Premium over Niro HEV
    • Niro PHEV-26 LX - $27,900.00/+ $4,350
    • Niro PHEV-26 EX - $31,500.00/+ $5,550
    • Niro PHEV-26 EX Premium - $34,500.00/+ $2,600 <-- Niro Touring
    Destination and Handling: $940.00

    The 2018 Niro PHEV-26 qualifies for a $4,543 Fed tax credit resulting in a slight premium to the EX but a discount for the LX and EX Premium vs. Niro Touring.

    Options

    Aurora Black Pearl Paint - $395.00
    Snow White Pearl Paint - $395.00

    Aluminum Door Scuff Plate: $100.00
    Bumper Appliqué: $75.00
    Cross Bars: $285.00
    Carpet Floor Mats: $135.00
    Cargo Net: $50.00
    Cargo Cover: $150.00
    Mud Guards: $95.00
    Paint Protection Package: $200.00
    Wheel Locks: $55.00

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2018 Hyundai Ioniq PHEV-29 Pricing in Detail

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  3. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    That's a great price for the base model. Now let's hope that the base model Ioniq PHEV has comparable real-world fuel economy to the Ioniq HEV Blue/SEL. I really hope that the 16-inch tires and the heavier battery in the PHEV don't give it real-world fuel economy more akin to the Ioniq HEV Limited model....Wayne, any chance that you're planning to test drive the Ioniq PHEV soon (steady states, first-drive, etc.)? And does anyone know when it's going to be released in the US?
     
    BillLin likes this.
  4. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    BillLin likes this.
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris:

    Soon, very soon. :)

    My local Hyundai dealership has four on their lot right now.

    [​IMG]

    I am still not seeing much in the way of discounts despite slow sales and Ioniq inventory building nationwide. The best was M-Plan pricing at some Midwest state dealerships for in-state purchases in the middle and again late last year.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin and Chris12 like this.
  6. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Things I have been wondering about this car lately:

    1. Depreciation: How much will the Ioniq PHEV depreciate as compared to the Ioniq HEV, Prius Prime, and 4th Gen Prius? Do plug-in hybrids tend to have a higher residual value than both regular hybrids and EVs? Lower? Somewhere in between? I've noticed on cars.com that many used Chevy Volts have taken a steep hit in residual value, as has the Nissan Leaf, while the regular Prius hybrid tends to retain its value, but this may have more to do with the Toyota brand reputation as compared to Nissan and Chevy than it has to do with plug-in hybrids, regular hybrids, and EV's in general.

    2. MPG and MPGE: If the Ioniq EV has the highest EPA mpge of any car in America (136 mpge), and the Ioniq HEV Blue has the highest EPA mpg of any car in America (58 mpg combined), and if the Ioniq PHEV is essentially a combination of these two power trains, why are the Ioniq PHEV's mpg (52) and mpge (119) significantly lower? At 119 mpge, the Ioniq PHEV is tied with the the Chevy Bolt, whose coefficient of drag is .308 and whose own company called its shape "a disaster for aero." Also, if I'm not mistaken, every other version of the Ioniq has a highway energy efficiency rating that is higher than its city efficiency rating, yet the Ioniq PHEV comes in at 53 mpg city, 52 mpg highway. Why is that?

    3. Real-world energy efficiency: what is it?
     
    BillLin and xcel like this.
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris:

    Regarding depreciation, the Prius PHEV Gen 1 and Gen 2 were never overpriced upfront. The Volt has always been priced sky high upfront with owners taking the largest depreciation hit. Many Volt evangelists tend to believe they are the early adopters even today despite years of BEV/PHEV availability and are willing to take the financial hit to their financial detriment. My only explanation anyway?

    Regarding MPGe, take the Monrony's City results with a grain of salt. The Volt, Bolt, Prius, Prius Prime, Ioniq, and Ioniq PHEV are all really really efficient. That said, the Prius and Prius Prime are more efficient as the ICE never needs to start to come up to speed vs. the Ioniq's ICE fire at the most inopportune time but both lack the midsize comfort and amenities against the Ioniq family offerings as pointed out previously.

    Wayne
     
    Chris12 and BillLin like this.
  8. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    xcel likes this.
  9. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    xcel and puddleglum like this.
  10. puddleglum

    puddleglum Well-Known Member

    I think this is always a problem for dealerships and a risk for the first owners of new technology. It's magnified with EV's because they are such a vast departure from what most techs are familiar with. Even the ones that have some knowledge are still going into uncharted territory. Add to that the engineers that designed it probably have no concept of the effects of extreme cold on that new tech so they're no help. Getting to the root of the problem is time consuming and costly and nobody wants to pay. Warranty rarely pays for diagnosis in my experience. Sadly, the brave souls buying the new tech are left being the guinea pigs.
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  11. alster

    alster Well-Known Member

    I'm still waiting for a real world review on the Ioniq Plug In. I have heard that its more like a hybrid than a Volt, as the Volt runs on 100% pure electric
    and the gas engine does not kick in to obtain extra power. Also I would like to see if the Ioniq Plug in does get 52 mpg in hybrid mode as well....
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  12. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Fair point about the experience level of the staff in the dealership service departments. That's why I don't trust them beyond simple (DIY possible) activities and field replaceable unit swaps.

    As an engineer, I'd give the design and development engineers the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure they have environmental chambers for testing if not the occasional field trips to the naturally frigid regions for further testing and evaluation. My suspicion tends toward management rushing the car out the door, or setting unrealistic schedules.

    One sample is hardly enough to indict the entire car model, but why aren't there more available for the 'other green states' let alone California? Also, given the issues encountered by multiple, early Ioniq EV adopters with cold weather charging for example, one may be concerned whether the higher volume Ioniq plug-in hybrid will have the same issues, although that model has had more baking time with the later introduction.

    No matter how much I like a car on paper, these problem reports cause concern. I know the reports we've seen on a single Chevy Volt owner experience have tainted my view of the Volt. I still like the Volt on paper and the bulk of the owner reports are good, and there is a large volume of vehicles behind the positive reports. No volume to speak of with the Ioniq EV.

    By the way, I've had the 2013 Leaf in very cold conditions (similar to those in the article about the Ioniq EV) without issue. And I haven't seen any reports of other high-volume EVs with simple charging-in-the-cold problem as in the article.

    I thought I saw some multi-day test drive reports... Even with the larger battery and supply current to the drive motor, the Ioniq plug-in seems more like the first generation Prius plug-in in the way it would fire up the engine with a heavier foot. Gas mileage is probably similar as well. Regarding keeping it in EV mode, the Volt does so by design, and happily, the Prime does so most of the time as well. Right now, with side-by-side-by-side comparisons of the Ioniq/Niro/Prime available on dealers' lots, the Prime still feels like a better bet for me. (cost, reliability, 'EV-ness') Looks and style are secondary to me.
     
    xcel and puddleglum like this.
  13. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Bill, the Ioniq BEV is fairly popular in the Scandinavian countries. A quick check of the Ioniq forum doesn't turn up a lot of hits that would indicate the problem with Jordan's Ioniq is typical of all Ioniq BEVs. No cold weather charging problem here:


     
    xcel, puddleglum and BillLin like this.
  14. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    puddleglum and xcel like this.
  15. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Wayne, sorry if this is a repeat question, or if you've already answered it elsewhere, but do you have any plans to do steady states and/or a calibration drive for the Ioniq PHEV any time soon?
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Chris:

    That could be a while as they are just arriving in fleets now. Given the EPA, I suspect it will perform just like the Limited Trim Ioniq.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  17. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    Really, like the Limited and not like the SEL? That’s too bad. I know the Limited produced some disappointing steady states. I was kind of assuming/hoping that the PHEV would be roughly comparable to the SEL, given your short first drive of the PHEV in EV mode (and because the Prius Prime, even with its heavier battery, managed to best the Prius 2 Eco - I wonder why Toyota was able to do that with their plug-in but Hyundai wasn’t?)
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.
  18. C_ita

    C_ita New Member

    Hello, my name is Claire! I am apart of a group of undergraduate marketing students at San Diego State University, working to learn more about the eco-friendly car market (e.g. full electric, hybrid, plug-in hybrid, fuel cell vehicles). We need feedback from people interested in, and owning, clean vehicles.

    We would greatly appreciate it if you would take a couple minutes out of your day to take our survey, https://sdsubusiness.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_6hDMyMyTBdN7Q7H. Your participation will enter you in a raffle to win a $30 Amazon Gift card. We would love your input, thanks!
     
    xcel likes this.
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The Hyundai Ioniq and Accent were recognized by C&D with Editors' Choice Awards

    Hyundai’s quality across a diverse vehicle lineup has once again been demonstrated as the 2018 Ioniq and 2018 Accent were named among Car and Driver’s Editors’ Choice awards for the Hybrid and Subcompact categories respectively.

    2018 Hyundai Ioniq PHEV-29

    [​IMG]

    The Ioniq was recognized for its three distinct powertrain choices, including: electric, hybrid and plug-in hybrid, as well as class-leading efficiency that maintains a fun-to-drive experience. The Accent has been honored due to its distinctive design, fuel economy and redesigned interior. Both vehicles also feature dynamic design elements and an available suite of safety and infotainment features that highlight Hyundai’s commitment to a great driving and ownership experience for its customers.

    Car and Driver’s Editors’ Choice awards are selected by combing through the hundreds of vehicles they test and review each year to highlight the standouts in each class. In-depth criteria including the results of their Buyer’s Guide in-depth testing, track performance, and value, help to narrow their choices to segment leaders, helping buyers decide which models are worth their consideration.

    Wayne
     
    BillLin likes this.
  20. Chris12

    Chris12 Well-Known Member

    I live in the New York City area and test drove an Ioniq PHEV at a Hyundai dealership in the Bronx a few days ago. A few reactions.

    1. EV mode: I've read countless car reviews of the PHEV which say that the ICE turns on needlessly and unexpectedly in EV mode. This was 100% not my experience. Sure, I was driving the way I normally drive, which is economically, but I drove the car in EV mode for 5 miles (3 in the city, 2 on interstate Route 95), and at no point did the ICE turn on when I didn't want it to - in fact, the only time it did turn on was when I tried to make it turn on, which I did by literally flooring the gas pedal on a long and straight highway-off ramp. But in the city, I got the car up to 35 mph without the ICE turning on. On the highway, I got the car up to 65 mph without the ICE turning on (I couldn't go any faster because there was moderate traffic on 95), and I did this by accelerating up to 65 more rapidly than I usually would when merging on to the highway - I didn't mash the gas pedal, but I was trying to approximate the highway acceleration of a "normal" driver, and the car still stayed in EV mode. So, at least with my own driving style, I couldn't really see the ICE coming on in EV mode other than in an emergency acceleration situation, or perhaps going up steep hills (I didn't test drive on any real hills). This was a pleasant surprise, especially since I was expecting the opposite.

    2. The brakes: I was a little unnerved by how much distance it took to stop/slow the car down. Braking distances felt, if not dangerously long, then much longer than I'm used to. This was especially surprising since the car is so small. To be fair, this is the first PHEV I've ever actually driven, so perhaps it's just a matter of getting used to a PHEV's longer stopping distance due to the heavier traction battery, but my wife owns a Honda CR-V, whose weight is basically comparable to the Ioniq PHEV, and I swear the Ioniq PHEV still has a longer stopping distance. Maybe it's a combination of the PHEV's heavier battery and its regen braking causing a split second delay in the actual, mechanical braking, but I've driven Priuses before, and the Ioniq PHEV's braking distance would definitely take some getting used to.

    3. The seats: I found the seats to be uncomfortably firm and thin. There didn't seem to be much padding at all. I'm 5'10", 180 lbs, and not a particularly fussy person. In almost all driving weather, I can get by using the HVAC rarely to not at all. In restaurants, I've been known to read the menu for 5 seconds and then order whatever, just to get it over with. But the Ioniq PHEV's driver's seat was uncomfortable enough that, if I were to buy one, I would definitely buy some memory foam padding or something to put over the seat, as well as the head restraint. The head restraint especially felt like I was leaning my head against a plaster wall. This would be very annoying over 150,000 miles. I drive a 2016 Honda Civic right now, and compared to the Ioniq, the Civic's driver's seat feels like a Lazy-Boy recliner.

    4. Efficiency: on the Ioniq's center screen, I had trouble finding meaningful data on my efficiency during the EV mode test drive. Perhaps I need to spend more time studying the manual, but the only thing I could find was two graphs: one MPG graph whose left axis only went up to 45 MPG, and there was a green bar which told me that I had achieved greater than 45 MPG (this was less than helpful because since the ICE never turned on in EV mode, I had achieved infinity MPG); and a second graph whose left axis was confusingly labeled 'kW' and not 'kWh.' But I couldn't find any info which could tell me my average mi/kWh over the 5 mile drive, or any measurement of how much electricity I had consumed during the 5 mile drive. On the one hand, before we started the test drive, the car's EV range display said 9 miles, and when we returned it said 6 miles, so I had effectively squeezed 5 miles out of 3 miles of estimated range. But I'm not sure this really means anything as the car's estimated 9 miles of range was most likely based on the dealership's extremely, almost criminally inefficient driving of the car before I showed up (on one screen, I saw a previous trip MPG measurement which said 22 MPG - I don't know how you could get 22 mpg in an Ioniq even if you were trying to waste gas; you would probably have to let the car idle for hours?).

    Anyway, has anyone has similar reactions to the Ioniq PHEV's seats and brakes? And is there some measurement in the car's central (or driver's side) display which tells you 'lifetime' and 'single-trip' mi/kWh and/or MPG averages?
     
    xcel and BillLin like this.

Share This Page