482,000 VW TDIs Produce 5 to 35Xs the NOx Beyond Federal Emissions Requirements

Discussion in 'Volkswagen' started by priusCpilot, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    So glad to here JunkWagen will not be selling anymore! I'll be surprised if the Sky-D shows. I wounder if it will still make 177hp?

    MY Prius C does it all for me still and get's me 50+mpg easy no matter how hard I drive. I also have a 2000lbs tow capacity. Only went to 1250lbs so far and it had no problems climbing mountains or descending on B mode. Anymore and I would like brakes on the trailer. In the future ill be adding a roof tent and everything I need inside the car to go on long trips while pulling my jetski.

    You know what would be awesome though? A Sky-D CX-3 Hybrid!
     
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  2. BillLin

    BillLin MASS: 2018 Bolt EV and 2017 Prime

    Not a wagon, but wouldn't the Mazda6 do? Hope it's the 2.2 and not something bigger...
     
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  3. radtech

    radtech Active Member

    I have a 2015 Passat TDI and I leaning on taking the money $$$ and just driving the wheels off the car. Is there anyone that has started the process? What are the prospects of these two mods they are proposing?
     
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  4. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    The Mazda 6 would be a great candidate to receive that engine. The 3 would be fine with a smaller diesel. We'll be watching what actually happens.
     
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  5. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Monday, December 19th, 2016

    [​IMG] A settlement for Canadian owners has been determined. It still needs court approval in late March, but some details have been revealed. Owners who sell their vehicles back to VW will receive the wholesale value from September 18, 2015, as independently determined by Canadian Black Book, Inc, plus a bonus of between $5100 and $8000.

    More details can be found at VW Canada Settlement

    The wholesale values are not listed on the settlement website, but somebody with access to the Black Book has looked them up.

    The values can be found at VW TDI BlackBook Values

    Pay attention to the mileage deduction tab, as this will likely come into play for vehicles that averaged more than 24k km / year. At this point in time, there is no way to know the exact buyback prices, but the spreadsheet should give an idea for what to expect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
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  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Mike:

    Excellent information!!!

    A Detroit area friend turned in her 14 Jetta SportWagen TDI yesterday. Beyond the first three months, she never was to happy with it since it was experiencing a few electrical gremlins. Having to call Service for jumps multiple times in an essentially brand new car would tick anyone off. She received close to $24k and had purchased a used 13 Subaru just a few weeks prior knowing what was coming.

    I spoke with a 15 Passat SE TDI owner in a Loews parking lot yesterday. He is still ecstatic about the car and especially its efficiency. A recent RT drive from San Diego to San Francisco to see relatives over Christmas netted 52 mpg. He is a bit ticked off about the whole process however. He still loves the car but it cannot be sold, cannot be traded in, and cannot be kept here in Calif. due to the Smog check and registration flag after this year.

    I loved the Passat and Jetta TDIs and will miss them dearly. Not that the 1.8L TSI with the 6-speed MT or 6-speed AT is a bad drivetrain or anything - it is not - but it does not stand out in the segments like the VW 2.0L TDI. There was a 46 mpg highway rated Passat waiting in the wings for us here in the U.S. for the 2017 MY but it was shelved apparently for good as was the rest of the 2.0L and 3.0L TDI lineup. :( In particular, the Audi Q7 and VW Atlas need that 3.0L TDI.

    Wayne
     
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  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Tuesday, Dec. 20, 2016

    [​IMG] VW Reaches Agreement with U.S. Environmental Regulators to Resolve Civil Claims Related to 3.0L TDI V6 Turbo Diesel Engine Vehicles In The U.S.

    VW AG and Volkswagen Group of America, Inc. (VWoA and together, Volkswagen) announced that they have reached an agreement with the United States Department of Justice (DOJ) on behalf of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the State of California, by and through the California Air Resources Board (CARB) and the California Attorney General, to resolve civil claims regarding approximately 83,000 affected 3.0L TDI V6 diesel engine vehicles in the United States.

    The agreement, in the form of a proposed Consent Decree, is subject to the approval of Judge Charles R. Breyer of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, who presides over federal Multidistrict Litigation (MDL) proceedings related to the diesel matter in the United States. The proposed agreement would allow Volkswagen to recall more than 75 percent of affected 3.0L TDI V6 vehicles to bring them into compliance with the emissions standards to which they were certified, if appropriate modifications are approved by EPA and CARB.

    As disclosed by the Court, Volkswagen has also reached agreement with the Court-appointed Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee (PSC) on substantial aspects of the monetary relief that eligible owners and lessees would receive, and the parties are working to resolve the remaining issues. Details of these discussions remain subject to a confidentiality order of the Court. The Court has scheduled a status conference on Thursday 22 December at 11am PT for the parties to report on progress towards a resolution and set a deadline of January 31, 2017 for the parties to submit a formal agreement to the Court.

    Hinrich J. Woebcken, President and CEO of Volkswagen Group of America, Inc.:
    Under the terms of the proposed Consent Decree, Volkswagen has agreed to:
    • Recall approximately 63,000 affected 2013-2016 Model Year Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche 3.0L TDI V6 vehicles with so-called Generation 2 engines to bring them into compliance with the emissions standards to which they were certified, if appropriate modifications are approved by EPA and CARB.

    • If Volkswagen is unable to meet this requirement, it will offer to buy back or terminate the leases of these vehicles and may also seek approval by EPA and CARB to offer customers a modification to substantially reduce their nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions.

    • Buy back or terminate the leases of approximately 20,000 affected 2009-2012 Model Year Volkswagen and Audi 3.0L TDI V6 vehicles with so-called Generation 1 engines or, if approved by EPA and CARB, modify the vehicles to substantially reduce their NOx emissions so as to allow eligible owners and lessees to keep them.

    • Contribute $225 million to the environmental remediation trust that is being established under Volkswagen’s 2.0L TDI settlements in the United States to fully mitigate the lifetime NOx emissions of the affected 3.0L TDI V6 vehicles.

    • As part of its agreement with the State of California, Volkswagen will also pay $25 million to CARB to support the use of zero emissions vehicles (ZEVs) in the State.
    The terms of the proposed agreement will be effective and final only after approval by the Court. At the earliest, approval will occur during spring of 2017. Affected 3.0L TDI V6 customers do not need to take any action at this time, and can visit VW Court Settlement for more information.

    By its terms, the proposed Consent Decree announced today is not intended to apply to or affect Volkswagen’s obligations under the laws or regulations of any jurisdiction outside the United States. Regulations governing NOx emissions limits for vehicles in the United States are much stricter than those in other parts of the world and the engine variants also differ significantly. This makes the development of technical solutions in the United States more challenging than in Europe and other parts of the world, where implementation of an approved program to modify TDI vehicles to comply fully with UN/ECE and European emissions standards has already begun by agreement with the relevant authorities.
     
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  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Wednesday Feb. 1, 2017

    [​IMG] VW Reaches Settlement Agreements with Private Plaintiffs And U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) On 3.0L TDI V6 Vehicles In The U.S.

    VW AG and VW Group of America, Inc. today announced that they have reached proposed agreements to resolve outstanding civil claims regarding approximately 78,000 affected 3.0L TDI V6 diesel engine vehicles in the United States.

    Two agreements have been submitted to the Court for approval: (1) a proposed class settlement with private plaintiffs represented by a Court-appointed Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee (PSC) on behalf of a nationwide class of current and certain former owners and lessees of eligible 3.0L TDI V6 vehicles; and (2) a proposed Consent Order submitted by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC).

    Proposed 3.0L TDI Settlement Program

    Under the 3.0L TDI settlement program, VW has agreed, among other terms, to provide cash payments to all eligible members of the class, and take the following specific actions:
    • Recall and repair, free of charge to the customer, approximately 58,000 affected 2013-2016 Model Year Volkswagen, Audi and Porsche 3.0L TDI V6 vehicles (so-called Generation 2 vehicles) to bring them into compliance with the emissions standards to which they were originally certified, if an appropriate Emissions Compliant Repair is approved by U.S. regulators.

    • Buy back or offer trade-in credit of equal value for, or terminate the leases of, approximately 20,000 eligible 2009-2012 Model Year Volkswagen and Audi 3.0L TDI V6 vehicles (so-called Generation 1 vehicles) or, if approved by U.S. regulators, modify the vehicles to substantially reduce their nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions so as to allow eligible owners and lessees to keep them.
    VW has agreed to pay up to approximately $1.2 billion in benefits for the 3.0L TDI settlement program, assuming 100% participation in the program, a 100% buyback of all eligible Generation 1 vehicles and availability of an Emissions Compliant Repair for Generation 2 vehicles. Volkswagen expects to be able to bring affected Generation 2 vehicles to the same emissions standards to which the vehicles were originally certified.

    VW will begin the 3.0L TDI settlement program as soon as the Court grants final approval to the settlement agreements. At the earliest, approval will occur in May 2017.

    Potential claimants under the class settlement do not need to take any action at this time. Individual class members will receive extensive notification of their rights and options (including the option to “opt out” of the settlement agreement) if the Court grants preliminary approval of the proposed class settlement at a hearing scheduled to take place on February 14, 2017. More information about the proposed 3.0L TDI settlement program can be found at VW Court Settlement.
     
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  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Wednesday Feb. 1, 2017

    [​IMG] [​IMG] Bosch reaches settlement agreement for diesel vehicles in the U.S.

    Bosch has entered into a settlement agreement with civil claimants in the U.S. in order to settle the most substantial part of the civil law proceedings pending in connection with VW, Audi and Porsche diesel vehicles that were sold in the U.S. The corresponding documents have been filed overnight with the competent U.S. court, the United States District Court for the Northern District of California. The settlement agreement was concluded with the Plaintiffs’ Steering Committee (“PSC”) on behalf of proposed settlement classes.

    The agreement would settle the claims of consumers and dealers of used vehicles against Robert Bosch GmbH, its affiliates, employees, and directors concerning VW and Audi diesel vehicles with 2.0L engines for model years 2009 through 2015 and VW, Audi, and Porsche diesel vehicles with 3.0L engines for model years 2009 through 2016. For this purpose, Bosch will pay a total amount of USD 327.5 million (approx. EUR 304 million). By entering into the settlement, Bosch neither acknowledges the facts as alleged by the plaintiffs nor does Bosch accept any liability.

    Dr. Volkmar Denner, Chairman of the Management Board of Robert Bosch GmbH:
    The settlement agreement now reached requires the approval by Judge Charles R. Breyer, who conducts the nationwide multi-district proceedings in which numerous civil law actions have been combined. In a hearing scheduled for 14 February 2017, the Court will consider to grant preliminary approval of the settlement agreement. The class members will then be informed of their rights and options. It is proposed that the Court considers final approval of the settlement agreement in early May.

    The settlement agreement concerns only civil law claims. As it has done since allegations have first been made public, Bosch will continue to defend its interests in all other civil and criminal law proceedings and to cooperate comprehensively with the investigating authorities in Germany and in other countries.
     
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  10. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    At this point just about all of the TDI Sportwagens (and there were many) have disappeared from the parking lot at work. Interesting observation: most appear to have been replaced with either a Crosstrek or an Outback. Somehow that makes sense?
     
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  11. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I went by the TDI graveyard in Naperville and they are all still there. About thirty cars. What will happen to them ?
     
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  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Edwin:

    I hear they are headed to the crusher ... :(

    Wayne
     
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    February 1, 2017

    [​IMG] VW AG proposed agreements to resolve outstanding civil claims regarding vehicles with 3.0L V6 turbo diesel engines covers Porsche including all Cayenne Turbo Diesel models.

    Regarding the Cayenne Turbo Diesel in particular, Porsche will:

    Recall and repair, free of charge to the customer, all Cayenne Diesel vehicles to bring them into compliance with the emissions standards to which they were certified, if an appropriate Emissions Compliant Repair is approved by U.S. regulators; and provide restitution payments to all eligible owners and lessees of Cayenne Diesel vehicles.

    Porsche will begin implementing the 3.0L V6 turbo diesel settlement program as soon as the Court grants final approval to the settlement agreements. At the earliest, approval will occur in May 2017.

    Porsche owners and lessees do not need to take any action at this time. Individual class members will receive extensive notification of their rights and the terms being offered to them (including the option to "opt out" of the settlement agreement), if the Court grants preliminary approval of the proposed class settlement. The preliminary approval hearing is scheduled to take place on February 14, 2017. More information about the proposed 3.0L V6 diesel settlement program can be found at VW Court Settlement.

    Combined with the proposed agreements announced in December 2016 with the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ), the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and the California Air Resources Board (CARB), the principal issues associated with the Cayenne Diesel will be behind us. Of course, all these agreements remain subject to the approval of Judge Charles R. Breyer of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, who presides over federal Multi-District Litigation (MDL) proceedings related to the diesel matter.

    Porsche looks forward to continuing its cooperation with every relevant authority to recertify and retrofit all Cayenne Diesel models during the coming months.
     
  14. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    I imagine that if it's financially worthwhile to VW, some will be fixed and re-sold.
     
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  15. wxman

    wxman Well-Known Member

    If many of the VW TDIs are ultimately crushed, it may cause more environmental damage than if they were just allowed to stay on the road.

    According to Argonne National Laboratory's GREET model, manufacturing a new vehicle (a Golf TSI in this case) would produce 6,604,026 grams of GHG, 27,700 grams of VOC, 27,683 grams of CO, 9280 grams of NOx, 1920 grams of PM2.5, and 33,800 grams of SOx.

    Assuming the cheating Golf TDIs emit NOx at a rate of 1.5 grams per mile on average ("real world" according to the ICCT/WVU report), the NOx emissions produced during manufacturing a new Golf TSI would be offset in about 5,200 miles (assuming the Golf TSI averages its PZEV-certified emission level of NOx). However, all other emissions produced from manufacturing a new vehicle would never be offset, and for the most part, would actually increase with each mile driven by the gasoline equivalent.

    So, it would generally be better to just allow the cheating TDIs to be retired through attrition. Scrapping/crushing/recycling otherwise perfectly functional cars makes no sense from a strictly environmental perspective.
     
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  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Just adding a few more placeholders...

    Last November, U.S. VW brand chief Herbert Diess said, "VW will never sell diesels in the U.S. again." Instead, the company will be shifting its powertrain R&D dollars to electrified vehicles.

    Wayne
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    February 23, 2017

    [​IMG] VW Europe making good progress in its TDI retrofit campaign

    VW has successfully retrofitted approximately 3.4 million turbo diesel vehicles to date; these are vehicles with the EA189 engine type and displacements of 2.0, 1.6 and 1.2Ls. Around 1.4 million German vehicles are included in this total.

    The statistics indicate another relationship. Vehicles that received official approval for the retrofit in the Spring of 2016 have already received the software update with few exceptions.

    According to the latest figures, well over 200,000 customers/week worldwide have been updated. In Germany the figure was up to 100,000/week. The company expects a strong increase in work completion figures in upcoming weeks, especially in Germany.

    The VW Group has received all required official approvals for the retrofit from the German Federal Motor Vehicle and Transport Authority for diesel vehicles with the EA189 engine type and EU5 type approval.

    Reactions from dealers and customers are very positive, because dealerships were very well prepared for performing the technical measures on affected vehicles. Feedback so far indicates that the service measures are running smoothly, and the vast majority of customers are satisfied. The more than 20,000 customers surveyed about the software update gave the service performance an average grade of 1.5 – on a scale based on school grading from 1 to 5, where 1 is the best.
     
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  18. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    There is now a vehicle value estimator on the Canadian settlement information site. A VIN is required to estimate the value.

    https://www.vwcanadasettlement.ca/en/

    The settlement opt-out and objection deadline is March 4. Approval hearings are scheduled for March 22 and March 31.
     
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  19. radtech

    radtech Active Member

    Are there an threads or web sites that report the impact of the software upgrade to the engine performance? Are the losing MPG's and if so what is the average? I plan on keeping my TDI and driving it to the grave. I'm surprised there haven't been posts made to this thread already.
     
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  20. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Check on TDIClub. I just read briefly, but the people who have done upgrades on their Gen 3 TDIs have not noticed any significant differences. But so far the upgrade is only half complete, they still have to complete the other half at a later date.
     
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