Scientists Concerned About Climate "Fixes"

Discussion in 'In the News' started by brick, Nov 26, 2014.

  1. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    [​IMG] Intentionally altering the atmosphere to cool the planet could have unknown consequences

    [fimg=LEFT][/fimg]David Shukman - BBC - November 25, 2014

    As if we haven't put enough junk into our atmosphere already --Ed.

    Schemes to tackle climate change could prove disastrous for billions of people, but might be required for the good of the planet, scientists say.

    That is the conclusion of a new set of studies into what's become known as geo-engineering. This is the so far unproven science of intervening in the climate to bring down temperatures. These projects work by, for example, shading the Earth from the Sun or soaking up carbon dioxide. Ideas include aircraft spraying out sulphur particles at high altitude to mimic the cooling effect of volcanoes or using artificial "trees" to absorb CO2.

    Long regarded as the most bizarre of all solutions for global warming, ideas for geo-engineering have come in for more scrutiny in recent years as international efforts to limit carbon emissions have failed. Now three combined research projects, led by teams from the universities of Leeds, Bristol and Oxford, have explored the implications in more detail.

    The central conclusion, according to Dr Matt Watson of Bristol University,... [rm][/rm]
  2. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Really ? We've haven't had any global warming for over eighteen years and they just can't stop the nonsense.

    Last year all we heard was how warm Russia was, well how about minus thirty two degrees Celsius on Monday.:p

    This from an article I read yesterday,

    In other words if you're not claiming in your research that there is global warming and it is caused by man, the money dries up. One billion dollars in free money and you don't think they wouldn't lie their asses off to keep that Gravy Train a rolling.

    Another article I read this morning the author called NOAA flat out liars with the numbers they are releasing on Global temperatures. Seems they have been getting caught over the last few months actually manipulating actual temperature data to suit the Global warming premiss.

    NOAA was stating that October 2014 was the hottest in history. Really, when atmospheric scientists looked at NOAA's own data it turns out that October was at best the seventh or eighth hottest in the last thirty years.
  3. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    We have had warming continue. 2014 is likely to be a record warm year. Denying the facts ALS, won't change reality. Those articles you are reading are written by paid shills, and they have nothing to do with reality.

    As to geo-engineering - yes it is very concerning. Nobody is planning on doing it. It is being considered, but there are many huge risks, and a good possibility that they won't "fix" global warming.

    The climate has continued to warm, and there is only one real fix. Which is to stop burning fossil fuels.
  4. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA


  5. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Funny with all this Global warming going on Arctic Sea Ice is at a ten year high.


    The Antarctica ice pack has been growing 1.2 to 1.8 percent per decade since the 1979.

    Plus both the Antarctica and Arctic ice cover is at least twice as thick as previously thought.

    worthywads, your GIF is based on a computer model not actual measured temperatures.

    Blue shaded area is IPCC computer climate models and the black line is actual measured temperatures.


    Here we see the IPCC computer projected temperature rise since 2005 and the real measured temperatures.


    So since 1900 global temperatures have risen 1.44 degrees Fahrenheit.
  6. basjoos

    basjoos Well-Known Member

    The climate during the second half of the 1800's apparently was warmer than it is now. If you read accounts written during that era where they mention what crop plants were found growing where, cold sensitive plants were being grown further north than they currently are.

    In Mark Twain's "Life on the Mississippi", he talks about oranges being common from Natchez, LA on south. That Natchez was the northernmost location where you could grow oranges outside without protection, and that from Natchez on south, oranges are commonly seen growing in towns and plantations. If you read a current LSU publication about growing citrus in Louisiana, it says there is no problem growing citrus from New Orleans and points south. That from the I-10 corridor (Baton Rouge) on south you can grow citrus, but it will get cold damage every few years, and that north of there you can expect to get cold damage on most winters. Natchez is in the northern half of this northern zone where the LSU publication says to expect cold damage on unprotected citrus on most winters. So in the 130 years from the 1880's until now, the northern limit of orange cultivation in Louisiana has shifted south 140 miles from Natchez to New Orleans.

    If you read "Escape of General Breckenridge" in a book by George Washington Cable, in a journal kept by one of the members of this expedition of high ranking Confederate officials travelling to escape from the United States at the end of the Civil War to a foreign country to avoid capture by federal officials. Their escape route ran from southern Georgia down through the tip of Florida and eventually to Cuba. He talks about collecting coconuts at abandoned homesteads in the Cape Canaveral area. Today you have to get down to around West Palm Beach before coconuts become common.

    During the late 1800's there was a citrus industry in south Georgia, by the 1970's it was centered in an area just north of Orlando, but today you have to go south of Orlando to find the bulk of the citrus industry.

    So based on the written record from the 1800's in the southeast USA, it looks like we are having global cooling rather than global warming. Perhaps our current warming trend will raise the temps back up to where they were in the late 1800's.
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
  7. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    "97% of climate scientists, thousands of people who have done so much research, accept that human action has impacted global temperatures, but I choose to believe that they're all wrong or part of a massive conspiracy. People who have no training and have done no research say global warming isn't real. I choose to believe them."
  8. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

    Nope that is a graph of actual measured world temperatures. Your claim the earth hasn't warmed for 18 years means nothing, since over and over there are periods of flat temperature while there is a continued warming.
  9. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Well you better read this piece on your 97% of scientists agree. It seems that number is a crock of crap more like less than 1%.

  10. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    "I don't believe the 97% consensus line because I found this article by a member of the John Birch society. The article is well-researched: it relies on the author's own previous non-peer reviewed claims and cites an article by Berry Peiser that Peiser himself retracted."
  11. wxman

    wxman Well-Known Member

    The American Meteorological Society (AMS) surveyed its membership on the AGW issue a few years ago. The results of the survey were published earlier this year (July 2014)...

    According to that study, 52% answered "yes" to "Is global warming happening" AND "Human activity is mostly the cause", sample size = 1821.
  12. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    To join the American Meteorological Society, you don't have to be a meteorologist or even have any training at all.
  13. wxman

    wxman Well-Known Member

    To be a full member you do.

    And according to the paper I linked...

    [Page 1031, "Methodology" - bold emphasis added]
  14. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Pardon me--my mistake.

    Still, I don't put much stock in what members of the AMS believe, given the fact that the vast majority of their members polled for the study don't do climate science and haven't looked at the research.
  15. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    The fact that Antarctica is "growing" in the winter does NOT contradict anthropogenic climate change. There is now more evaporation - because it is warmer - and this leads to more precipitation; both rain and snow.

    If you think that anthropogenic climate change is a conspiracy, then you are discounting science as a whole. You cannot pick and choose among the parts of science you "believe" in. In fact, one doesn't "believe" or "not believe" in science.

    Science is our best understanding of reality - all of it. When you deny climate change - you deny reality.
  16. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Global warming has gone beyond science into the realm of political bickering. I actually therefore believe approximately 0% of any "science" done on the subject for either side.
  17. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    This will probably sound rude, but your position, which you probably think of as an independent one, has been sold to you by the denier (or, ahem, "skeptic") movement. The side that denies AGW doesn't produce science; they produce misinformation. Time and again, meta-studies of the peer-reviewed work done by climate scientists shows overwhelming agreement that human action is changing the climate. The link provided shows you those studies and how they break down, that the resistance to the scientific consensus comes from people working outside the scientific community without any background of expertise.

    Imagine for a moment if someone started posting in these forums claiming that hypermiling was all a crock, that any studies suggesting it works were made up by people with an agenda, whatever that agenda may be. We would mock that person; if he kept posting, eventually we'd get tired of it. Now imagine that he hacked into Wayne's emails and started quoting them out of context to "prove" there was some conspiracy among us to lie that hypermiling works.

    Because that's what's been happening for years to climate science. Scientists do peer-reviewed work that gets ignored because they don't have a PR team; in the meantime, unqualified bloggers say it's all a conspiracy, there's no consensus, and when they get called out for their errors, they don't correct them, they don't apologize, they just move to a different tactic.

    Ultimately, it's tiring for many reasons--among them having to come back and refute the same misinformation every few months when these "debates" arise. But also because it's a failure to take responsibility, to acknowledge the fact of the matter and say, "What can I do?" I'll admit I don't do enough--I like to fly down to see my family a couple of times a year--but I try to do what I can. And if doing what I can means refuting the same old lies and distractions every few months on this forum, I guess I'll keep doing it, because a lot of otherwise smart people have bought into a set of lies so foolish that they should be embarrassed.

    Yes, I'm on a high horse. No, I don't care.:bananalama:
  18. dr61

    dr61 Well-Known Member

    Thank you Booferama. I was too tired to answer again...
  19. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Hey, somebody has to put on the banana suit and saddle up. I'm just lucky I look good in a banana suit.
  20. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    It may yet be true. But when politicians get involved, it gets tricky. Both because politicians famously talk out of both sides of their mouths, and because the gub'ment money spigot is turned on, prompting plenty of marginally or completely disinterested or qualified people to crawl to the teat and churn out equally marginal conclusions for a quick buck. You and I pay for this. Thank a politician.

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