Honda November 2013 US Sales Down 0.1% + 2014 Accord Plug-in Hybrid Review

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] Like a broken record, the Accord, Civic and CR-V sales are both large and balanced.

    [​IMG]Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG - Dec. 3, 2013

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 - $40,570 to start including D&H while providing 13-miles on the plug and a 47/46/46 mpgUS city/hwy/combined rating when on gasoline. Picture taken in a rare San Diego rain.

    First off, the review. The all-new Accord is more modern, more efficient, safer (IIHS Small Overlap class leader) and far better equipped than its predecessor. And unlike the IMA based Hybrid from 2005, this all-new PHEV/HEV (Plug-in hybrid electric vehicle/hybrid electric vehicle) variants provide a significant improvement in fuel economy over the non-hybrid Accords.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Exterior

    A two tiered hood crease slopes down into lower chrome surround of the blue reflective single bar upper grille and large opening lower 2 bar grille with an unusually large Honda H front and center. The PHEV incorporates a vastly different grille than the rest of the Accords. Thin wrap around projector LED headlight lenses with accentuating LED DRL surrounds along the bottom and side providing a nice emphasis to the front end. I really liked the LED headlights reach, sharp cutoff and color at night.

    The profiles accentuated character line running from the central front fender flare upwards through the door handles and wrapping around the rear taillight lenses is new for Accord. A lower sill cutout feature line coming up through the rear quarter panel provides an attractive profile. Standard fare for the class.

    To the rear, the rear deck lid has an edgy crease into the chrome garnish adding an upscale appearance.

    Aerodynamic details include an all-new nearly flush windscreen, flush-mounted wipers, under-body “fixes” and aero tabbed rear corners that improve fuel economy.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Sedan Interior

    Comfortable and easy to control.​

    The seats arrive with softer foam under gray cloth in the center and suede like bio material along the edges. The leather wrapped wheel feels good to the hands although could use a bit more padding beneath.

    Suede like seat edge bolsters and soft cloth center are comfortable.​

    Where the interior falters is the headrests and driver side door armrest. Instead of supplying a multi-adjustable head restraint like that on the 13/14 Fusion for example, the Accord’s is set to far forward making lengthy drives somewhat uncomfortable. The geometry makes for an impressive crash test rating but not so much on the comfort front. The door armrest width was to thin to rest my arm on comfortably.

    Dual-zone auto climate, simplified controls and instrumentation, larger and higher resolution displays plus larger fonts make everything easier to understand at a glance.

    The 2014 Accord PHEV like its non-hybrid counterparts incorporate soft touch plastics in the upper dash and a “pewter like” bezel around the central vents and radio controls. The mid-height dash trim is a high quality looking shiny trim extending from the left of the steering column into the door trim up to the handles on the left and across the passenger side into the same door trim on the right.

    Rear View Camera

    Inside w/ grid lines and outside actual distance separation. Excellent!​

    A full-color 8 in Multi-Information Display (i-MID) is the display control for the Accord PHEVs electronic functions including the standard rear view backup camera. The exclusive LaneWatch feature that instead of a little lighting up icon on a mirror shows the passenger side of the car in full on the 8 in display or half of the display in case of route guidance is being displayed whenever the right turn signal is activated. At first I liked it although after a few hundred activations, a simple LED light may have been less distracting. Cool but a solution looking for a problem that has been solved by less costly means from other manufacturers.

    Front and Rear Seating roominess

    One of the most comfortable rear seats I have sat in thanks to the longer lower seat bottoms, reclined rear seat backs and
    legroom aplenty including less angled knee articulation vs. any of its competitors! Snapped while inside a 2014 Accord Sport​

    The new Accord’s interior 103.2 cu. ft. of passenger volume provides excellent room both front and rear. The PHEV sacrifice arises from the smallish 8.6 cu. ft. trunk, just over half that of the non-hybrid 15.8 cu. ft. trunk.

    Cargo Volume

    The 8.6 cu. ft. trunk holds more than a grocery cart worth of goods but not much more.​

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Infotainment

    The full-color 8 in display houses the Bluetooth HandsFreeLink phone interface, Pandora and aha internet radio interface plus an SMS text messaging feature. The lack of XMSirius on a car costing more than $40,000 confounds me. A new available Audio with touchscreen display and the Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System with Voice Recognition and FM Traffic is also available. Pairing and uploading the phone book from a Motorola RAZR MAAX HD to the Accord PHEV took less than 2-minutes. My first SMS text message while driving was read aloud and I was supplied with 5 pre scripted short messages in which to reply by selecting 1 – 5. All in, the Accord’s high end Infotainment is the first vehicle in which all of the high tech interactions worked as advertised.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Drivertrain

    The 2014 Accord PHEV is powered by Honda’s two-motor hybrid system utilizing a 124-kilowatt (kW) electric traction motor that also acts like a continuously variable transmission (e-CVT) mated to an atkinsonized 141 hp and 122 lb-ft. of torque 2.0L i-VTEC I4. Electric-only operation is supported by a 6.7 kWh Li-Ion battery with regenerative braking provided by an all-new electric-servo braking system.

    The two-motor hybrid system allows the Accord PHEV-11 powertrain to transition almost seamlessly between all-electric EV drive, gasoline-electric Hybrid Drive; and direct Engine Drive. I say almost as you can feel the torque hole and reapplication of power during the transitions.

    Along with EV and HEV operation, the Accord PHEV allows you to save your onboard charge for later use when it may make more sense. For low to mid-speed highway travel, there was little reason to save it. For higher speed highway, save the stored charge for your slower speed city drives using the HV button behind the shift lever on the center lower console.

    The Accord PHEV defaults to EV mode after a charge and will remain in full-electric mode until the SoC necessitates the automatic switchover to gas/electric hybrid operation. At higher speeds and engine loads, the gas engine kicks in as needed to provide additional power.

    While the PHEV-13’s range is supposed to allow just 11 miles, on three full charges, the Accord PHEV-13 allowed an excellent 21.0, 19.9 miles, and 23.3 miles allowing almost double its EPA range with an average 21.3 miles on a single full charge when pushed. Even allowing Marian driving her normal work commute allowed 13.8 miles and she is an EPA combined driver. Her Prius PHEV-11 allows approximately 15 miles before ICE fire for a comparison.

    All-Electric Range

    23.1 miles (23.3 miles actual) to single charge run out.​

    The Accord PHEV took about 2 hours and 45-minutes to charge from flat off a 120V plug though the onboard 6.6 kW charger. From a Level 2 charger, I experienced a full charge from flat in just 50 minutes.

    I was unable to connect to the car through the free HondaLink EV smartphone app since it would not allow me to register it under my name. It was a press fleet vehicle after all.

    Another interesting attribute is that it is the first production car in the U.S. to meet the new, more stringent LEV3/SULEV20 emissions standard, and will also qualify for single-occupant carpool-lane access in California.

    2014 Honda Accord - New Chassis for improved Ride, Handling and Safety

    The 2014 Accord chassis consists of 55.8-percent high-tensile strength steels improving body rigidity, crash worthiness and reducing weight (improves ride and handling in most instances, interior quietness, performance and efficiency). They were designed with the company’s latest Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE-II) body structure designed specifically to improve frontal crash safety and to excel in the IIHS’ new small-overlap frontal barrier crash test.

    Other additions include a steel and aluminum front subframe, electric power steering (EPS). The EPS allows easy turn in/handle at parking lot speeds but is bit overboosted at Interstate speeds creating a vague steering feel. In addition, like most midsize offerings, 14 Mazda6 and 12/13/14 Passat not included, there is an inner rear wheel lift at higher turning speeds in mountainous terrain that does not inspire as much confidence as it could.

    On the noise front, the Accord PHEV while on the ICE and climbing steep grades is not all that quiet.

    Turn in was decent, throttle tip in was not overly aggressive or soft with or without ECO mode engaged and the brakes felt strong with an aggressive regen to softer mechanical braking transition feel.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV Safety

    The 2014 Accord PHEV arrives with the greatest range of active and passive safety features in Honda history.

    2014 Accord PHEV aces the new IIHS Small Overlap Crash Test – This is the test to get right and the all-new Accord takes the prize.

    Passive-safety features include just six airbags, including dual-stage front, side and side curtain airbags. New SmartVent side airbags reduce the risk of excessive airbag deployment force and eliminate the need for the Accord's previous Occupant Position Detection System (OPDS).

    Active safety includes the latest four-wheel discs with Electronic Brake Distribution (EBD), Brake Assist (BA), a 4-channel Anti-lock Braking System (ABS), Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with Traction Control (TC), and a Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS), all standard. Hill start assist is also now standard on the Accord and a welcome addition for those of us that drive sticks. It holds the cars brakes for approximately 2-seconds or until you have developed some forward momentum while sitting stopped on an uphill. In practice it works great.

    The Accord PHEV includes Forward Collision Warning (FCW) and Lane Departure Warning (LDW) and Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) standard. All appear to be not only distance but also rate based. If a car was accelerating away while you were still too close in heavy stop and crawl, the FCW system would not brin up the brake indication and beep. Similarly the ACC acted similarly. From minimum to maximum distance, it provided what appeared to be 1.5 to 3 seconds distance between you and the vehicle ahead. Both worked excellent with the ACC adding a ton of regen as it slowed the Accord down quickly. The only time it got a little confused was when a vehicle would over take you through a turn. Your lane was clear ahead yet the ACC would spot the vehicle in the next lane over as you went through the turn and would softly slow the car below your preset speed.

    Like most LDW systems, the Accord’s is a PIA for those of us that ridge ride almost on a continuous basis. The on-off beeps became annoying so I turned it off. For most of the population that are not knowledgeable of this safety practice, it will work as intended.

    Recently the 2013/2014 Accord Sedan and Coupes of all variants earned 5-stars on the tough National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) crash tests.

    Regarding the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the Accord walloped the mid-size class as it scored a perfect Good rating across the board including the extremely violent front small overlap crash test as shown in the video. The IIHS “Top Safety Pick +” means something again and the Accord is at the head of the class when it comes to occupant safety. You simply cannot find a safer car in the class.


    2013 Honda Accord Sedan - NHTSA Crash Test Rating

    Can you think of anything that performs better? If so, consider it.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Fuel Economy Results

    If you are a light on the pedal driver, there is nothing currently available in all of North America that is as efficient. When we think of the most fuel efficient HEV/PHEVs available, the Prius HEV, PHEV and Prius c should be first on your mind. The new kid in town feels just as if not more fuel efficient up to about 55 mph. Beyond that speed, the Prius family shines albeit with their own quirks of ownership.

    I picked up the 2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 with a full tank and 7.9 miles of EV range showing. I drove 16 miles before the EV range dropped to 0.0 and the ICE first lit off in charge sustaining mode. I drove another 2 to 3 miles to make sure.

    The initial fill up/top off saw the Accord consume just over 4 gallons, 2.7 after first click. The 2014 Accord PHEVs 12.2 gallon spec tank probably holds closer to 15 gallons from empty to top off. The PHEV-13 with no charge depletion mode capability is essentially an Accord HEV other than the PHEVs extra weight and slightly lower overall EPA of 47/46/46 mpgUS city/highway/combined vs. the HEVs 50/45/47 mpgUS city/highway/combined rating. The PHEV has a 1 mpg higher highway rating although driving both back to back over a two week period, I did could not discern where that extra 1 mpg highway occurred.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 First Charge Sustaining Mode Drive

    Initial top off at a Shell on Manchester Blvd. and the I-405 in Inglewood, CA.

    98.3 miles from Inglewood Shell to the Encinitas Shell.

    The I-405 was shut down near Long Beach and detoured down Studebaker to 2nd street and back to the I-405 adding a few miles of city. I saw the aFCD breach 85 mpg in that stretch before falling back to the low 80’s when finishing off the last 50 + miles on the I-405/I-5.

    First drive result

    Shell on Leucadia Ave. and the I-5 in Encinitas, CA. -- 98.3 miles/1.218 gallons = 80.7 mpgUS actual.​

    Like most Honda’s, the Odometer is just under 1% short of actual and the averaging fuel consumption display (aFCD) reveals a total under report of 1.7%.

    When pushed to its limits in 60 to 64 degree temps and no wind, I do not believe the 14 Prius HEV or even my own 13 Prius PHEV-11 (48 and 49 mpg highway respectively) could achieve the same? It would be really really close and the Accord is a much larger, capable and better equipped car. Still not quite as capable as the 43 mpg highway rated 12, 13, and 14 VW Passat TDI with a stick or B-segment Prius c, the Accord PEHV-11 as an HEV would quite literally bury the 13 and 14 Fusion Hybrid and Energi PHEV, 12, 13 and 14 Camry HEV and 11, 12, 13 and 14 Sonata HEV. That is saying something although for $39,780 incl. D&H, it is a bit too expensive for actual consideration other than those willing to pay up for HOV lane access.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 – Maximum Effort Charge Sustaining Mode Drive

    106.3 mpg over 16.5 miles displayed - 104.5 mpgUS over 16.6 miles actual.​

    The 5.5 mile round trip city loop in the San Diego area consisted of an elevation delta from beginning to end of only 50’ which for this area is almost impossible to find. The above result was after 3 Round trips from no charge (Charge Sustaining mode) and 2 bars to 2 bars SoC.

    As it stands, only the 2013 VW Passat TDI can best this result while throwing the book at it. The Accord is far easier to drive in this realm.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Review – Why a PHEV? Because of this.

    First full charge begins just off Del Mar Heights Road and Carmel Country Road in Northern San Diego. 21.5 EV mile range
    displayed after the previous nights 80.7 mile charge sustaining mode only drive from LAX to Northern San Diego.

    Charge Depletion EV mode disappeared after 20.8 displayed miles/21.0 actual miles.​

    The Accord PHEV-13 like the Prius PHEV-11 and Volt still had another .5 + miles of AER left before first engine start.

    100.1 mpg after 90.4 miles displayed -- 98.4 mpg after 91.1 miles actual.​

    Somewhere around the 90 mile out mark from Northern San Diego on the way to the Nissan of Downtown LA just down from the LA Convention Center and the LAAS, the Accord PHEV-11 dropped below 100 mpg.

    Arriving at Nissan of Downtown LA for a charge after 110.4 miles displayed/111.3 actual miles and 96.2 mpgUS displayed/94.6 mpgUS actual.​

    The above explains what a simple PHEV-11 can do for a 100 mile commute.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Speed vs. FE

    The PHEV and HEV are like no other vehicle we have seen in the past with Honda P&G'ing its Li-Ion at low to mid loads. Topography and higher Loads see FE diminishing quickly as speed increases above 55 mph.

    Temps for the 50 to 65 mph Northbound and Southbound Speed vs. FE data was 66 – 67 degrees F with winds of 5 to 10 mph from the Northwest. The 70 mph bi-directional data points were completed in 56 degree temps with no discernible wind after traffic in Southern California had cleared.


    Linear analysis shows the Accord PHEVs EPA highway of 46 mpg (14 Accord PHEV) was crossed at 67.6 mph. Not bad and very representative.

    Above 70 mph, the Accord PHEV and HEV fall below 40 mpg rather quickly. They will still best their hybrid and non-hybrid midsize counterparts but will be owned by the turbo diesels.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Conclusions

    First off is the price. For an additional $4,875 over the 14 Accord Hybrid Touring, you gain an onboard 6.6 kW charger, another 5 + kWh pack capacity, and a charging cord. You lose almost 4 cu. ft. of trunk space, leather seating, XMSirius SAT Radio, and a power sunroof. That is a lot of extra $’s for 11-miles of AER.

    On the looks front, it is not sitting at the front of the pack as the Mazda6 and Fusion take that accolade. Accords have not looked class leading in at least 3 generations but that is just me. It does however provide the highest resale and one of if not the highest reliability. Great seating front and rear and excellent ergonomics except for that headrest geometry and arm rest. The limited rear trunk volume is another consideration in your quest for the best midsize. The Accord PHEV is also a bit on the noisy side under harder acceleration or high load although if you rarely drive in that realm, it will not be an annoyance.

    On the Fuel Economy front, the Honda engineers nailed it. Except for the higher speed fall off, nothing is going to touch it and only the Passat TDI can best it once pushing into the higher speed realms. If you are considering either the Accord PHEV or the HEV, take a few test drives. If you are a 1 to 3 bar on the power meter driver, you will be extremely satisfied. If you are a 2 to 4 bar on the power meter driver, you will probably exceed the EPA but not by much. If you are a 3 to 6 bar on the power meter driver, you will be disappointed and I would recommend you look elsewhere for a more cost effective fuel saver.

    When considering safety, no other affordable midsize provides the accident avoidance technology and crash test safety that the 2014 Accord lineup does. Crash test safety should always be high on everyone’s list for a family automobile. This may in fact be worth far more than the premium Honda is charging for the Accord PHEV-13 over any other manufacturer in the segment?

    $40k for a midsize no matter how fuel efficient and with this short all-electric range (AER) rating is going to severely limits its uptake as its year to date sales figures have shown so far. The midsize segment is defined within the $21 to $28k range and $40k is just too far out of reach for most shopping the segment to consider. Expecting to receive much of the $4,900 premium over the HEV at resale time in 5 + years is also a stretch.

    The Accord PHEV-is one of the best midsizes ever offered with the caveats above. If like the rest of the PHEV offerings $5K is taken off the sticker and adding in the incentives still available for PHEVs, it might make for a nice addition to your own stable.

    Remind me to shorten these reviews up a bit on the next go around. :rolleyes:

    Honda’s November 2013 Sales Overview

    Earlier today Honda reported November 2013 U.S. total sales of 116,507 units, a decrease of 0.1 percent compared with record November 2012 sales. Year-to-date sales reached 1,390,057, an increase of 7.8 percent. Honda by itself saw November sales reach 101,948, a decrease of 2.3 percent when compared to November of 2012. Acura posted sales of 14,559, an increase of 18.9 percent compared to November 2012.

    Honda’s November 2013 Sales Highlights

    The CR-V set its second consecutive monthly record for November, with sales of 23,509, up 5.3 percent over November 2012. The Accord was Honda's best-selling model in November with sales of 27,093, up 3.2 percent for the month and up 10.6 percent for the year versus 2012.

    Honda Division year-to-date sales have now topped 1.2 million, up 7.9 percent for the year.

    ModelNov-13Nov-12Nov-DSR % changeNov-13 YTDNov-12 YTDYTD-DSR % change


    Civic Hybrid1,031530+87.0%7,0076,644+5.1%
    Accord Hybrid530NANA553NANA

    Accord PHEV-1368NANA488NANA

    Honda Totals116,507116,580-3.9%1,390,0571,290,011+7.4%

    The daily selling rate (DSR) is calculated with 26 days in November of 2013 and 25 in November of 2012.
    Year-to-date, the DSR is calculated with 282 days through November of 2013 and 281 days through November of 2012.

    Top 10 – November 2013 US Automobile Sales Leaders

    RankMakeModelNov-13Nov-12Nov-DSR % change
    4RamRAM Pickup29,63524,337+17.1%

    The daily selling rate (DSR) is calculated with 26 days in November of 2013 and 25 in November of 2012.​

    Top 10 October 2013 Sales items of note: The Camry moved ahead of RAM for third and fourth place respectively. The Accord and Civic swapped for 5th and 6th positions respectively. The Altima moved from 10th to 7th while the Corolla fell from 7th to 10th position. CR-V maintained its 8th position while the Fusion reappeared into the top 10 moving into the 9th position. The Escape dropped out of the top 10.

    November 2013 B-Segment Sales Rank
    1. Nissan Versa - 8,327
    2. Chevrolet Sonic - 4,712
    3. Ford Fiesta - 4,642
    4. Hyundai Accent - 4,641
    5. Honda Fit - 4,140
    6. Fiat 500 - 3,075
    7. Kia Rio - 2,474
    8. Mazda2 - 724
    9. Toyota Yaris – 712
    November 2013 C-Segment Sales Rank
    1. Honda Civic - 26,291
    2. Toyota Corolla - 22,434
    3. Chevrolet Cruze - 18,200
    4. Hyundai Elantra - 16,751
    5. Ford Focus - 15,239
    6. Nissan Sentra - 11,664
    7. VW Jetta - 8,876
    8. Mazda3 - 7,756
    9. Dodge Dart - 6,486
    10. Kia Forte - 4,423
    November 2013 D-Segment Sales Rank
    1. Toyota Camry - 30,386
    2. Honda Accord - 27,093
    3. Nissan Altima - 24,604
    4. Ford Fusion - 22,839
    5. Hyundai Sonata - 16,595
    6. Chevrolet Malibu - 14,405
    7. Kia Optima - 10,871
    8. Chrysler 200 - 5,621
    9. VW Passat - 8,876
    10. Mazda6 - 3,641
    November 2013 Pickup Sales Rank
    1. Ford F-Series* - 65,501
    2. Chevrolet Silverado* - 34,386
    3. RAM* - 29,635
    4. GMC Sierra* - 14,362
    5. Toyota Tacoma - 12,601
    6. Toyota Tundra - 10,010
    7. Honda Ridgeline - 1,353
    8. Nissan Titan -1,180
    * Includes HD pickups

    November 2013 Hybrid Sales Rank
    1. Prius Liftback - 9,801
    2. Prius c - 3,001
    3. Camry Hybrid - 2,994
    4. Fusion Hybrid - 2,769
    5. C-MAX - 2,398
    6. Prius v - 2,227
    7. Avalon Hybrid - 1,532
    8. ES 300h - 1,393
    9. RX 450h - 1,105
    10. Civic - 1,031
    11. CT 200h - 1,002
    12. MKZh - 852
    13. Accord HEV - 530
    14. Insight - 402
    15. CR-Z - 295
    November 2013 Electric Sales Rank
    1. LEAF - 2,003
    2. Volt - 1,920
    3. Prius PHEV - 1,100
    4. C-MAX Energi - 941
    5. Fusion Energi - 870
    6. Focus Electric - 130
    7. Spark EV - 87
    8. Accord PHEV - 68
    9. RAV4 EV - 62
    10. Fit EV - 23
    November 2013 Segment Ranking items of note:
    • In the B-Segment, the Accent moved ahead of both the Fit and 500 to 4th, 5th, and 6th respectively. The slow selling Mazda2 moved ahead of the fading Yaris.

    • In the C-Segment, Elantra passed the Focus for 4th and 5th spot respectively. Sentra moved ahead of the Jetta to 6th and 7th position respectively.

    • In the D-Segment, the Passat moved up one spot passing the Chrysler 200 for 8th and 9th position respectively.

    • In the Pickup segment, there were no position changes from October.

    • In the Hybrid segment the C-MAX moved ahead of the Prius v for 5th and 6th positions respectively. The just released Accord HEV moved up from 15th to 13th ahead of the slow selling Insight-II and CR-Z.

    • In the Electric segment, the Leaf jumped two spots to lead the pack with the Volt now sitting in 2nd position. The Prius PHEV fell from the segment lead to 3rd. The Spark EV moved from 9th to 7th, the Accord PHEV moving up one to 8th, and the RAV4EV falling two places back to 9th. Nothing in this segment is selling particularly well.
    US Sales November 2013 vs. November 2012 Sales Ranks and Results for the top 14 Automobile Manufacturers
    1. GM November 2013 US Sales up 13.7% with 212,060 vehicles sold
    2. Ford November 2013 US Sales up 7.2% with 190,449 vehicles sold
    3. Toyota November 2013 Sales up 10.1% with 178,044 vehicles sold
    4. Chrysler November 2013 US Sales 16.1% with 142,275 vehicles sold
    5. Honda November 2013 US Sales down 0.1% with 116,507 vehicles sold
    6. Nissan November 2013 US Sales up 10.1% with 106,528 vehicles sold
    7. Hyundai November 2013 US Sales up 4.7% with 56,005 vehicles sold
    8. Kia November 2013 US Sales up 10.6% with 45,411 vehicles sold
    9. Mercedes-Benz November 2013 US Sales up 14.4% with 37,345 vehicles sold
    10. Subaru November 2013 US Sales up 29.8% with 36,621 vehicles sold
    11. BMW November 2013 US Sales down 0.4% with 36,327 vehicles sold
    12. VW November 2013 US Sales down 16.3% with 30,727 vehicles sold
    13. Mazda November 2013 US Sales down 4.3% with 20,754 vehicles sold
    14. Audi November 2013 US Sales up 13.0% with 13,636 vehicles sold
    November 2013 US Automobile Sales Rank item of note: MB climbed two spots to 9th displacing both Subaru and BMW to 10th and 11th place respectively.

    Through November, the Seasonally Adjusted Annual Rate (SAAR) was approximately 15.6 million vehicles. November SAAR is approximately 16.4 million vehicles, the best pace of the year and best Monthly SAAR since February of 2007.
  2. rhwinger

    rhwinger Well-Known Member

    Great write up Wayne. 83 mpg out of a vehicle in this size ?

    Coming up on 150K with my HCHII, thinking this might be the replacement when it's time?


  3. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I LIKE the long reviews !

    Thanks for all your hard work, Wayne.
  4. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Excellent review as always:). Love the mpg graphs. Couple of corrections:

    1) The EPA range is 13 mile, not 11 miles (I noticed CR also says 11 or 12 miles)
    2) Limited sales is because of limited production rather than price I think (just look at the Fusion Energi sales). Took me months to locate one.
    3) Cost premium calculation isn't quite complete without these 2 items:

    a) You forgot to mention the federal incentives of $3,334 and $1500 for CA so there isn't really that 5K premium for most people that you mention over Hybrid Touring
    b) KBB named the Accord PHEV 2014 having best resale value (yes I know it's probably a guess at this point). Regardless it's unlikely you'd lose more than the subsidized 5K at this point. See They rate it at 40% after 5 years (additional 6% over non-hybrid).

  5. volton

    volton Well-Known Member

    Waiting for CR-V with this technology
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Luke:

    Thanks for the mostly AER correction. In the previous 3 Accord PHEV stories I used the PHEV-13 figure. The EPA had it listed at 11 miles for quite some time IIRC. It is now showing 13 miles so that is where that came from.

    I also mentioned the incentives near the and of the review. The CA one is the only guarantee and the 8% on 40K only brings you back down to the same tax that would be paid on an Accord LX.

    When it comes to resale, last month I looked up the expected sales price for the 05 Accord EX-L and the 05 Accord Hybrid. IIRC, the delta was only $500 and this was KBBs own numbers. Like the all-electrics, the PHEV upfront premium is not appearing on the resale side due to massive discounting by the OEMs soon after release. Volt, LEAF, and Prius PHEV early adopters paying at or near retail really got hurt whereas later purchasers picked up relative bargains. I suspect Honda will do the same as they have to move electrics for CARB ZEV credits.

    All in the Accord has the most modern interior of any affordable midsize, it provides a known quantity comfortable demeanor, and as the fuel economy numbers achieved above show -- unlike the new Fusion and Fusion Energi with their made up EPA results -- the Accord can and will provide. Honda has indeed built a mostly serial hybrid better mousetrap which is a benefit to us all.

    Last edited: Dec 4, 2013
  7. Indigo

    Indigo Witch with wry sense of humor

    But getting a SUV would make you part of the problem, not part of the solution. It's much better to be part of the solution! :)
  8. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    Wayne your fill up at the Shell was on Manchester Blvd not Westminster?

    I'm sure you grabbed some Randy's Donuts across the street no?
  9. volton

    volton Well-Known Member

    Note that I drive a Gen 1 Insight, so believe I am part of the solution as you say. Our family car must be bigger and have some utility to haul stuff. A Hybrid CR-V with this technology would be a hot seller for Honda.
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    If a plug-in hybrid, and compact, SUV delivers great mileage, how is it "part of the problem"?

    A stumbling block for me with something like this Accord is it's cargo capacity. Not to mention Honda's abysmal record with hybrids.

    The SUV's hatchback configuration would be a big plus. The down side is lower aerodynamics, more weight, but hey...
  11. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    How would it be much/any different than a Prius V? They're almost identical size. Hybridize the CR-V and it'll be Honda's answer to the big Prius.
  12. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Point well taken on Honda's past hybrid rep, but their failures revolved around trying to get too much performance from NiMH batteries. Honda has dumped the NiMHs for their newer hybrids so maybe they've turned a corner.

    Wasn't this the hybrid drive system that was described by Honda as sort of a serial hybrid? Has there been any clarification on how the new hybrid drive actually works?
  13. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Yes. Haven't heard any issues so far with their Civic Li-on Hybrid but you still have a pretty good warranty. This is complete different setup from previous Honda IMA hybrids (it is serial). There's clarification on this site.

    I'd love to see AWD hybrid from Honda/Acura. It would give you space and good handling in snow. At one time RDX was mentioned as getting this hybrid setup. Not sure though when that will happen since things move pretty slowly at Acura nowadays (RDX '14 doesn't even have yet LDW,BSM or other Civic '14 features).
  14. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Did you just use "compact" and SUV" to describe the same theoretical vehicle ?

    The same drivetrain in a sedan or hatch would be more efficient and handle better.

    Unless , of course , one needs to sit up higher for some vague , perceived , "safety" reason.
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    The discussion is about the CR-V. A vehicle named such because Tall Civic Wagon would have been soooo appealing. If released today, the car would classified as a crossover.

    It has about 2 inches less ground clearance than the CX-5, and nearly the cargo space of the Prius v.

    Of course a sedan or hatch what drive better, but at the expense of cargo space, and outside pricy German brands, wagons still aren't great sellers. Just look at the efforts manufacturers make to get them labeled crossovers or even SUVs.
  16. all_about_the_glide

    all_about_the_glide Well-Known Member

    I'm with Edwin...crossover / SUV = mf'in junk from big box stores haul'in, jacked up station wagon, FSP.
  17. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Sure , wagons aren't great sellers. That means nothing to me , except that people in North America prefer FSP's. And an SUV/CUV is always an FSP compared to CARS.

    Thanks , all about the glide.
  18. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Same here. There's nothing admirable about making vehicles taller than they must be to provide appropriate ground clearance, headroom, and space.
  19. all_about_the_glide

    all_about_the_glide Well-Known Member

    The absurdity exists in lets say 90% of the perceived need for the is not inherent in the vehicle itself.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 7, 2013
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait Well-Known Member

    And a car always has less cargo space than a SUV. And they tend to have even less such space once hybridized.

    I entered the conversation because someone felt a compact SUV is an oxymoron. It isn't, and some can be the most efficient choice that meets a person's needs. Then throwing them in with the Tahoes, Expeditions, and Sequias as a FSP can undermine your arguement to outsiders. What do you think of a person describing a huge, 3 ton SUV in a report and then seeing the photo of the named SUV being a RAV4?

    Depending on their commute, a CX-5 will return near what a Civic would for the typical driver, while providing much more cargo and passenger space.

    Yes, a small wagon would be better, and a Civic wagon hybrid would be great.
    For us.
    But we are the minority. If the goal is to get the rest of the driving population to increase their fuel economy, then the manufacturers have to offer fuel efficient models that they are willing to buy and drive.

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