The 47 mpg Rated Honda Accord Hybrid Challenges

Discussion in 'Honda' started by xcel, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Luke:

    Other PHEV owners are experiencing the same with the colder temps as well. Very normal.

    Wayne
     
  2. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Thanks very much for that info since I wasn't sure how much decrease was normal.

    Not sure how it warms up the ICE during EV operation in cold temperatures (and there's no temp gauge) but it does seem EV range drops most right after cold start.
     
  3. hunter44102

    hunter44102 Well-Known Member

    has Honda been issuing firmware updates for the PHEV or HEV? I'm curious if they are making any fixes or improvements
     
  4. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    There was only 1 software update a month ago which fixed potential damage to actuator I believe under certain conditions.

    I get now typically 70-80 mpg for my 47 mile trip. Lot better than I anticipated since I assume EV range would be around 13 mi but I get about 18-20 mi (using slow acceleration).

    I only wish there would be software update to show combined MPGe or at least kWh used since electricity is not always free.

    Consumer Reports reported they didn't get great mpg with their Accord Hybrid but they didn't say how much. I think probably because of cold temperatures and second they don't drive as careful (but arguably like most people would drive).
     
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    Consumer Reports manages to get terrible mileage with every hybrid they get their hands on.
     
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Consumer Reports beat up on the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrids fuel economy rating and general attributes.

    Honda Accord Hybrid Delivers Class-Leading Fuel Economy, But Falls Well Short Of EPA's 47 MPG Estimate

    To which I say some cars need an EPA haircut. Others do not. The Accord Hybrid is one that does not.

    Here is CRs story:

    Consumer Reports FE tests show the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid delivered impressive overall fuel-economy, tying the smaller Honda Civic Hybrid and just below the top-performing Toyota Prius hatchback.

    But…

    The Accord Hybrid's 40-mpg performance on Consumer Reports combined city and highway tests make it a class leader for fuel economy among midsized sedans. Testers found the Accord Hybrid has a very impressive hybrid system that smoothly transitions between battery and engine power. To save fuel, even at highway speeds, the engine willingly shuts off as soon as drivers lift their foot off the gas pedal.

    But Consumer Reports' engineers caution that buyers expecting their car to the EPA's figure of 47 mpg posted on the window sticker might be disappointed.

    Jake Fisher, director of automotive testing at Consumer Reports:
    Prior Consumer Reports tests of the Ford Fusion Hybrid and C-Max Hybrid found a significant shortfall between the EPA's estimated highway fuel economy figures and those in CR's own fuel economy tests.

    Although the Accord Hybrid delivers improved fuel economy over the non-hybrid version, the Hybrid falls short in ride comfort, emergency handling, and quietness[/quote]. As a result, the Accord Hybrid scored lower overall in Consumer Reports' tests than the non-hybrid four-cylinder Accord while costing about $6,500 more.

    CRs made no mention of the feature differential between the base when they made the pricing statement.

    Accord Hybrid with the eCVT- $29,155
    Accord Sport w/ the CVT - $24,515

    Difference = $4,640.

    The 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid adds over the Sport the hybrid drivetrain, LaneWatch passenger side camera and central display, Rearview Camera with Dynamic Guidelines vs. Static Guidelines, Proximity key with Push Button start, Power Windows with Auto-Up/Down Driver's and Front Passenger's Window vs. the Sport’s Drivers side only, back lit vs. non-back lit Steering Wheel-Mounted Cruise, Audio, Phone and i-MID Controls, and Heated, Body-Colored Power Side Mirrors with Integrated Turn Indicators.

    The Sport includes a Fold-Down Rear Seat that the Hybrid does not due to battery location. Both include the center armrest with integrated cup holders.

    Wayne
     
  7. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    They only got 32 mpg in city driving and 47 in highway. Not sure how they got 32 mpg only?

    Regarding price difference they also say without explaining you never earn that difference back in decent amount of time. However how do they know how many miles you drive each year? Then there's another article saying you better buy diesel since that gets closer to EPA and will get promised highway. But they should not look at what is closer to EPA in % but how relative these vehicles compare in their real-world combined mpg. 40 mpg combined Accord is still better than their 35 mpg combined BMW diesel. But yes if you only drive highway the BMW will have higher mpg (49) according to their test but is lot more expensive as well so that's moot point. None of that is mentioned.

    Several issues I have with CR on this as they are misleading not just public but also apparently other sites like Automotive news who said 'lackluster review' yet Consumer reports subtitle says stellar fuel economy. So maybe they watched CR short youtube video which never mentions any fuel economy numbers and starts video it's like a disaster movie (but at end of video he retracts that?!).

    In addition CR as always make also some mistakes or misleads. For example they say the PHEV is 10K more than base hybrid. Well at least acknowledge it's 5K extra touring model. Then they say federal rebate is $2500 but it's really $3600 and never mention any local state incentives that might be there. Then they say PHEV range is supposedly 13 mile but they never tested and they imply they doubt it gets that.

    Then ratings are as confusing as ever. They go from 85 points to 77 to hybrid. They say stopping distance are long for hybrid. Yet compare to non-hybrid:

    Non-hybrid dry/wet: 136 / 148 ft = good
    Hybrid dry/wet: 137 / 142 ft = average
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  8. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    What mpg did they get in the CMax? How far short of EPA was it, compared to how far short the Accord was? We know their test produces low mpg. But on the same test, you should be able to compare one to the other.

    Edit: did the searching myself.
    Fusion hybrid: 39 mpg vs epa 47 mpg
    C-Max hybrid: 37 mpg vs epa 47, revised to 43
    Accord hybrid: 40 mpg vs epa 47

    So, the Accord outperformed the Ford hybrids on a "percent of epa" basis.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2014
  9. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    ?

    (37/43)>(40/47), slightly.
     
  10. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    More surprising are the full numbers:

    Accord Hybrid: 32/47/40 mpg
    Fusion Hybrid: 35/41/39 mpg
    C-Max Hybrid: 35/38/37 mpg

    So city much lower and highway much higher. Seems bit odd and certainly not my experience.

    Fusion hybrid got rating of 80 while Accord hybrid got 77. Accord acceleration is half a second faster, higher slalom speed, much shorter stopping speeds. So guessing explanation is supposedly ride where they'd feel every jolt. Weird enough my experience is opposite with PHEV which has softer suspension. Not sure if Hybrid is so much different.
     
  11. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    Consumer reports historically really likes cars with soft cushiony suspension. I like to take that part of their ratings and invert it. I much prefer a vehicle that responds to my input, and soon, rather than just taking it as a suggestion.
     
  12. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I haven't driven the Hybrid model but own the PHEV and that suspension is actually softer than the Accord Coupe I test drove. Could be all different but didn't see anyone else mention this.

    Yesterday they posted another article with this headline:

    http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...brids-come-up-short-in-fuel-economy/index.htm

    Omitting the word 'EPA' in the title misleads thinking it's not performing in real word. Is this intentional or they just hate hybrids? They got best ever combined mpg in this class and don't even say much about it.

    Also interesting how they try to use fueleconomy.gov to back up their mpg results saying the average is 42.4 (it's now 42.8). That's 7% more than their tests so basically they are underdelivering on their results. Second the median value is close to 44 mpg and 25% exceeded EPA. So what's going on at CR to deliberately not mention that?
     
  13. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Let's say that Consumer Reports doesn't "understand" hybrids. That's a little kinder than saying that they're clueless. They are , in my opinion , rather arrogant.
     
  14. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Actually looking at Honda's site I think $24,880 EX is closer since both have LaneWatch and push button start and 6 speaker AM/FM audio system (one diff is missing moonroof though).
    That would bring difference down to 4,275.

    128K miles you'd break even at $4 per gallon and CR (low) 40 combined mpg. But that also assumes you'd have 100% depreciation of the hybrid premium which is typically not the case.

    They published another article yesterday how hybrids fail to meet EPA (except CR-Z). They put that in the Hybrids/EV "guide"...
    First some of their test highway numbers actually exceed EPA and no mention of that. Second if you compare to fueleconomy.gov than you get some opposite results. E.g. Civic Hybrid gets 40 mpg in their test (!) while fueleconomy.gov shows 47.9 average which is higher than 44 mpg EPA. No mention of that but they do mention comparison for Accord (still 7% higher though).

    Arrogant or on purpose? It looks almost like manipulation.
     
  15. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I just got a personal record of 98 mpg for my 46 mile commute with Accord PHEV. Main reason was lot of stop & go traffic (about 25%). So my range is now between 65 - 98 mpg for this route and that just demonstrates the huge range you can get with a hybrid.
    So it seems difficult to come up with single mpg number for city driving. It really depends a lot on speed and how much regen you can get (ignoring factor that CR might do inefficient accelerations and hard braking).
     
  16. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Nice results, Luke. Most of us here know that these numbers can vary drastically from day to day because of many factors beyond our control. On my previous commute , I saw a range of 31-46 MPG.
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Luke:

    Fantastic commute!!! It is the perfect example of what a really nice hybrid drivetrain is for and what the PHEV is all about.

    Wayne
     
  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Although the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid has been available since Oct. of 2013, it is selling in far fewer numbers (9,229 sold from Oct. 2013 through July 2014) than expected.

    Although pricey, it is comfortable both front and back, extremely well equipped, is the safest midsize available, and very efficient. Just surprised at the poor sales results.

    It was nice to see one in the wild while behind the 14 RAM 3500s windscreen this afternoon.

    2014 Honda Accord Hybrid

    [​IMG]

    Wayne
     
  19. Airbalancer

    Airbalancer Well-Known Member

    Could it be the styling , that killing sales reminds me of a 10 year old Buick :D
     
  20. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I don't see dealers in north CA having one in stock and there appears to be less inventory then when I bought it 1 year ago. Maybe Honda will stop producing PHEV?

    I asked my local dealer for a quote (need to sell in 1 month or so) and he came up with only $25K (23K miles). On the other hand I saw another dealer asking $42K for used low mileage car (more than new?) but not sure what he got since it's gone now. So not sure what's it worth. Too bad I can't keep it and service it outside CA.
     

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