The 47 mpg Rated Honda Accord Hybrid Challenges

Discussion in 'Honda' started by xcel, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG]The larger and better equipped Accord darn near rivals the Prius liftback on the EPA… Maybe?

    [​IMG]Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG - Sept. 18, 2013

    2014 Honda Accord Hybrid – Will probably arrive with a steep $33 to $34,000 sticker just as Honda ups its previous estimate of 49/45/47 mpgUS city/hwy/combined rating to 50/45/47. It is now being built in Marysville with dealership availability early next month.

    The Honda Accord Hybrid uses Honda’s new Atkinsonized 2.0L i-VTEC I4 working in conjunction with a 124 KW traction motor and a 105-KW motor to charge the pack and possibly control the engine and vehicle speed depending on the architecture.

    Inside, the Accord Hybrid's well-appointed interior includes an instant fuel economy (iFCD), averaging fuel economy (aFCD), and an energy flow mimic to name a few. I am growing tired of the energy flow mimic/gimmick in hybrids as the only thing I find them useful for is a larger SoC representation. Hopefully its inclusion has finally run its course?

    Honda's LaneWatch blind-spot display, Lane Departure Warning (LDW), Forward Collision Warning (FCW), an 8-inch color i-MID display, perforated leather-trimmed seating surfaces, cloud-based HondaLink featuring Aha compatibility, seven-speaker audio system with Bluetooth streaming audio, Pandora interface and XM Radio, and a multi-angle rearview camera with guidelines are all standard. Of course standard will surely come at a cost. That has yet to be released?

    And fully equipped to satisfy even the luxury car buyers needs for the latest in ... well, everything.

    2014 Honda Accord Hybrid

    [​IMG]
    Not flashy but focused... On interior refinement, advanced infotainment, passive and active safety technology, and in particular, fuel economy.​

    2013 Honda Accord Crash Tests

    IIHS including the Small overlap: Aced as in a perfect score across the board!

    The 2014 Accord Hybrid features the same next-generation Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE-II) body structure as the 2013 Accord. Like the 2013 Accord, the 2014 Accord Hybrid is expected to earn top safety ratings including an NCAP 5-Star Overall Vehicle Score and a TOP SAFETY PICK+ rating from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS). That small overlap really separates the good cars from the bad ones imho.

    Regarding safety, the 2013 and by proxy, the 2014 Accord is absolutely beyond reproach with a perfect “best-in-class” IIHS small overlap crash test and overall result that none of its competitors can match.

    The 2013 Honda Accord Sedan was only one of two midsize sedans to earn an overall GOOD rating in the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) small overlap frontal crash test. Under the more stringent testing guidelines, the new small overlap frontal crash test is designed to replicate what happens when only a small portion of the front corner of a car collides with another vehicle or an object such as a tree or utility pole. Additionally, both the 2013 Accord Sedan and Coupe are among the first vehicles in the industry to earn the highest possible safety rating of TOP SAFETY PICK+ from the IIHS.

    Beginning with the 2013 Honda Accord, Honda is applying the second generation of Honda's Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE II) body structure to its models. This reinforced front frame structure provides further enhanced frontal crash energy management through a wider range of offset and oblique crashes. The result of these efforts provides the capability for the Accord Sedan to achieve a top mark of GOOD in the new IIHS small overlap frontal testing.

    The new IIHS test is more challenging, as it requires additional vehicle cabin structure and front structure outboard of the main frame rails. By re-engineering of the vehicle structure, Honda has added enhancements that minimize the possible adverse effects on handling and ride comfort, fuel efficiency and overall body vibration, while increasing the safety performance of the vehicle for its passengers.

    [​IMG]
    If some believe Honda is not putting forth it’s A-Game, they probably do not understand what the above results mean.​

    Standard safety equipment on all Honda and Acura models include Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) with traction control; an Anti-lock Braking System (ABS); side curtain airbags (some vehicles equipped with a rollover sensor as well); dual-stage, multiple-threshold front airbags; and a driver's side airbag.

    The good: It has a nice ride, really good handling, great stick action, and decent visibility, good performance (both straight line and FE wise) and it was comfortable.

    The bad: Like every midsize, the Accord has a low starting price but gets pricey real quick with just a few ticks off the trim or option list. Considering the current Accord Touring is priced at $34,270 including D&H, the Accord Hybrid could arrive with a similar steep price tag making it tough to move in viable numbers.

    Some Discussion on the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrids Fuel Economy

    What worries me most about the 2014 Accord Hybrid is its 50/45 mpgUS city/highway rating. We have seen recent drastic overstatements from the likes of Ford and their C-MAX and Fusion HEVs and PHEVs. Even the Jetta Hybrids 42/48 mpgUS city/highway rating is suspect but not to the same degree for most.

    On the last go around, the 2007 Accord Hybrid was equipped with a 3.0L V6 with 3-cylinder deactivation and IMA attached. The Monroney stated 24/32/27 mpgUS city/hwy/combined. It was proven over the long haul to be less fuel efficient than the much less expensive standard Accord 2.4L I4 with the 21/31 mpgUS city/hwy/combined rating. This was due in part to how IMA and VCM limited glide time rather than enhancing it.

    Fortunately Honda’s hybrid prowess in the compact segment (HCH-I, -II and now -III) even with the vastly out of date IMA system has almost always lead to far greater highway fuel economy “capability” then the EPA ratings suggest. I cannot think of a single local highway drive not allowing over 70 mpg from a –II and even the -III! The 2 motor Accord Hybrid has that same feel to it although a 3,500 + pound vehicle with a smallish 2.0L pulling Prius levels of fuel economy? I am still wondering how they did it.

    The 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid is now being built alongside the award winning 2013/2014 Honda Accord at Honda’s Marysville, Ohio facility. Both the 2013 Honda Accord Sport with the 6-speed MT and 2013 Accord LX with the CVT have provided some rather decent mid-60 mpg lengthy drive results in Southern California. This level speaks volumes as to the capability of the powerful DI 2.4L mated to the wide ratio CVT. When the 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid arrives, it will be the highest fuel economy rated midsize sedan available in North America with an EPA fuel economy rating of 50 mpg city! That is right there with the much lighter and smaller Prius.

    The 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid is the first Honda hybrid vehicle produced in Marysville, and joins the Greensburg, Indiana-built Civic Hybrid as the second Honda hybrid model built in the U.S.

    We will just have to see as the shadow of the Passat TDI continues to hang menacingly over the latest Japanese hybrid offerings regardless of their stated EPA figures. The new Accord Hybrid is going to be good no matter the outcome of the battle with the Super Diesels and I for one cannot wait to find out if it has the “Right Stuff.” :)
     
  2. ksstathead

    ksstathead Moderator

    This new HAH is very interesting, though beyond my needs. Hopefully it is for real on mpg for those needing more space and amenities than I.

    On the TDi front, in my mind it may boil down to primarily highway roles going TDi and city/combo drives going full hybrid/PHV. With EVs picking up steam subject to range limits.

    I do too much local driving to use an oil-burner effectively. (That is to say, to justify one in the fleet.)
     
  3. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I'd find an excuse for lots of road trips if I had a sweet diesel in my fleet.

    But this Accord Hybrid........... I hope that Honda can deliver what we expect from them.

    And we expect a car that can beat the heck out the EPA without trying.
     
  4. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    WOW that is great numbers.
     
  5. Bruce

    Bruce cheapskate

    My sentiments exactly.

    The numbers don't add up for me -- they're claiming Prius numbers for something that's built like a tank, isn't nearly as aero and requires a more powerful drivetrain. Where are they making up the difference?

    Perhaps they'll test out to the claimed numbers, but the real world is likely to have a lot less (or negative) margin.
     
  6. Prozac

    Prozac Well-Known Member

    I will hold judement on the numbers until a few are on the road. While not very exciting to look at, the standard amenities are top notch. Of course, this will all come with a price tag that would have most of us waiting a few years until there are some used models available.
     
  7. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    This is one car I am looking forward to hearing more about. I couldn't afford one but am hoping that those mpg numbers may hold true. If there is one company that can come in with a clean sheet design that beats the rest, I would bet that it is Honda. Hopefully it does prove to be a big step forward in some way. It had better be good at that price.
     
  8. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    I too expect Honda to be more on point for mpg than *certain other automakers*.
    But arrgh! That price. All those "features".

    How long to pay back the upcharge for these?

    And what of the non-luxury buyers? I guess they're not worthy of mpg. :rolleyes:
     
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    A friend from FB posted a short response this this.

    James Hamel:
    Andrew, Honda unfortunately has always covered up its hybrids with the big $ price and a long list of its latest amenities standard. Too bad because the midsize segment price range is still $21 to $28k. Pushing into the $30K to $35k range does not provide a hybrid premium payback even though that is not what the focus should be. It really is however.

    Wayne
     
  10. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    Yes they have. :( Not just the hybrids. In 2005 they added the VCM V6 to the Odyssey, but only as an option to the top-trim model. In 2012 they made it standard, but added a 6-speed transmission, again only for the top trim. The Civic Hf isn't a stripped-down econocar, but a mid-priced trim option.
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Andrew:

    Yup. The HF is another that frosts me a bit. The Civic LX should have all of the HFs under body panels, aero wheels of some type and low RRc tires on it too :(

    Wayne
     
  12. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Toyota will let you buy a Camry Hybrid in two flavors. While they don't have the huge EPA numbers like the Accord Hybrid , they pack a lot of bang for the buck.
     
  13. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    AND......... Honda should sell a proper Civic HF with 6MT - sky-high gearing.

    Will it happen ? We can all guess the answer to that.
     
  14. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    And hat's off to them for that. Also VW with two trim levels of TDI now.
     
  15. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Unfortunately VW still makes Jetta TDi buyers pay a $1,535+tax bump as the Jetta TDi's base is the SE+Connectivity. And their DSG is an $1,100 MSRP premium on top of that. So, for the vast majority of drivers the Jetta TDi MSRP would start at $24,300.
     
  16. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Well , the vast majority of American drivers can't or won't drive a proper manual transmission , and they're accustomed to paying for it. Either that , or they don't think about since their Malimry only comes with automagic. The Jetta TDI is still reasonably priced.
    Of course , it's got the inferior yestertech engine , so the Thinking American would buy the Passat TDI today. EA288 TDI Golf , anyone ?
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The first dent in the Accord Hybrids rather remarkable armor may have just occurred?

    Consumer Reports -- 2014 Honda Accord Hybrid First Drive:
    Wayne
     
  18. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    Bye bye Accord.
     
  19. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    bye bye , Consumer Reports
     
  20. Prozac

    Prozac Well-Known Member

    I will wait until I have seen a few more reports on this car. At this point, I would have to wonder how much break in will factor in. It seems that with such high tolerance these days, engines don't really sing until about the 10k mark.
     

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