'13 C-Max Energi

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by GaryG, May 5, 2013.

  1. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    I have now documented a 33.3 mile range with photos http://fordcmaxenergiforum.com/gallery/image/273-photo-24/ on my C-Max Energi. The EPA gives the Energi a 21 mile range. I used 5.7KW's during the trip, and now have a 219 Lifetime MPG with 1,660 miles. I've ran the A/C 100% of the time at 70 -71F degrees, but sometimes I precondition the cabin while charging. This allows cooling the battery and cabin before a trip.

    Love this car!

    Gary
     
  2. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    That's awesome. What was the SoC and battery temp after the 33.3 miles?
     
  3. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Thanks, the SoC was at 21.?% as seen in the right side of the photo on my SGII. The Energy will go into gas/electric hybrid mode at 21% SoC, so EV range is 21 - 99.9% SoC. After preconditioning the cabin during charging, my battery was at 98F degrees when I left on the trip. The battery got to 102F during the trip and went back down to 98F degrees at the end of 33.3 miles. The engine will not let the battery drain below 14.5%. Of course, when the engine starts at 21%, the cat must heat to light-off before you can glide in EV again. That doesn't take long and I can go EV in the glide during P&G. Once the engine heats up, you can even drive a little in EV above 16% SoC, but not long before the engine starts again. MG1 can only charge back to 21%, so you can't charge back into the pure EV mode of the battery without plugging-in again.

    Gary
     
  4. dr61

    dr61 Well-Known Member

    I'm going to start reporting some FE figures for our C-Max Energi since it had about 3200 miles on it several weeks ago. These figures are for highway trips since our urban fuel usage has been near zero, all plug-in energy from our solar panels.

    On August 12 we started a 2200 mi trip from Redding, CA to East Glacier, MT and return. We mostly drove at or below speed limits on rural roads (55-60 mph), and cruised at max. 65 mph on Interstates (1/3 of roads). I used some mild hypermile techniques on two-lane roads when not on cruise control, including DWL. I mostly used CC on the Interstates. My wife drove about 40% of the miles and mainly used cruise control and no other techniques except gentle braking. The return legs from Colombia Falls MT to Arlington, OR had rather high headwinds. AC was used on Auto, 73F, for about 80% of the time. Load was two passengers, two large suitcases, 3 smaller bags. We started at 700' elevation, drove over many high passes including Logan Pass, 6600', and back over the Continental Divide at Marias Pass.

    Overall error in the car's MPG figure compared to hand calculation is now 2.1 %. I used hand calculations for the trip except that the last leg of 449 miles I'm using the car's display of gallons used (still lots left on the tank).

    Total gallons: 49.5, total miles 2207. Overall MPG: 44.5. We used up an initial 5.5 KWH charge and a brief refill of 2 KWH part way in Spokane, WA (mostly used up the charge in EV mode in towns). Adjusting for the miles from 7.5 KWH used, overall MPG from gas only is 43.9.

    I'm happy with this (compared to EPA 41 MPG highway rating), and I think it will improve with further break-in and improved driving techniques on our part. The car drove very well on mountain roads, with excellent steering, and it had good passing and hill climbing power when needed.
     
  5. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Very respectable results, Dave. Good job to you and the wife. Considering
    the head winds, hill climbs and brief (I imagine) passing, I'd even say great!

    Were you able to use charge sustaining mode with a good amount of battery
    capacity in reserve? i.e. is the option available? And if so, do you think that
    helped?

    Thanks,
    Bill
     
  6. dr61

    dr61 Well-Known Member

    We used what is called 'EV Later' mode (equivalent to charge sustaining) for all highway driving, and changed to EV mode for driving in towns (although sometimes forgot to switch...). After we got a partial charge in Spokane (at city hall), we ran the battery down to about 10% in Glacier Park while driving slowly through road construction zones up Going to the Sun Road to Logan Pass (6600'). Then we drove down to East Glacier at 4800' and the battery was recharged to 60% by regeneration! We saved that charge for town driving during the drive home. Wish there were more charging stations near the hotels we stayed at!

    I'm making it a habit to request installation of charging stations at each hotel we stay at.
     
  7. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Bless you! :)

    My sister started checking the timeshare resorts she frequents
    for charging stations. Disappointing, and when available, they
    tend to extort large $/hour with some minimum hours.

    I'm waiting for the fast DC chargers Nissan is allegedly installing.
    <my face is turning red!> I really shouldn't hold my breath.

    Cheers,
    Bill
     
  8. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Just passed 300 lifetime MPG in my Energi. I'm averaging about 30 miles on a charge when I don't do a lot of stops for shopping, lunch and that sort of thing. Still have 3/4 of the dealer fill and have about 2300 miles on the car.

    Looks like the IRS has raised the tax credit for my '13 C-Max Energi from $3750 to $4007, http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/30D.-...ric-Drive-Motor-Vehicles-–-Ford-Motor-Company which is welcome news to my ears. I also get 30% (max $1000) of my cost for installing my level 2 (40amp) charging station on my property. That's another $400 totaling a $4,407 tax credit for the 2013 tax year.

    Gary
     
  9. trogecj

    trogecj Member

    Gas from the original fill? Wow!:eek:
     
  10. BillLin

    BillLin PV solar, geothermal HVAC, hybrids and electrics

    Boy, I'll say... truly amazing! The right car for your type of driving.
    If I may... Volt-like, but with cargo space and a lower price.

    There's something magical about fuel efficiency in Jupiter, I think. :)

    Cheers,
    Bill
     
  11. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    The key is knowing how to hypermile, picking a great vehicle, and route planning. Another is living near the Atlantic coast and driving along the ocean. There are fewer stoplights, lower speed limits, and it's a scenic drive along Jupiter, Jupiter Island, Juno, Rivera Beach, and Palm Beach. Everything is either north or south, so I can take beach roads all the way down to South Beach in Miami and north to Jacksonville.

    I use my '11 Explorer mostly for highway driving because it can get upper 20's with the A/C, and is an excellent handling vehicle for those long hauls. My wife works 5 miles away and has a free Level 2 charging station in her parking lot. This gives me great flexibility of swapping vehicles and charging my Energi. She drives either vehicle, so planning the day around charging and routes makes it easy to save gas. Even with her driving the Energi, I still have a lifetime brake score of 98% for regen. The Energi brakes hard with regen in low gear, so I use that as my brake pedal.

    Gary
     
  12. CmaxVsPrius

    CmaxVsPrius Moderator

    In my area ford has a $3000 cashback on the C-Max Energi. At least one local dealer is also offering a $2000 discount on top of that. Then there is the $4000 federal text credit.

    The lowest price energi they have on the lot is about $33,750 list price. By my calculation that means you could own it for $24,750 plus the taxes and licensing.

    I believe they also offer 0% financing for 60 months even with the $3000 rebate.

    Contrast this to their lowest price C-Max SE hybrid they have on the lot at $27,680. That has no discount and $1000 rebate.

    So am I right that Energi would be cheaper than the hybrid? Even if they discounted that SE model $2000, which they said they wouldn't do.
     
  13. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    $3,750 tax credit, right? So "headline" price is $25k.

    However, you really have to look at the net price, including tax. Sales tax is normally calculated before the manufacturer rebate, so the net price is:
    (MSRP - dealer discount) * (1+tax) - mfr_rebate - credit.

    So,
    Energi: ( $33,750 - $2,000 ) * (1+tax) - $3,000 - $3,750
    C-Max: $27,680 * (1+tax) - $1,000

    Plug in your tax rate.

    Sweet deals in your area. Another car to be shopped nationally.
     
  14. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    IRS just raised the tax credit from $3750 to $4007 on the Energi.

    Gary
     
  15. CmaxVsPrius

    CmaxVsPrius Moderator

    First, the non-plugin SE they have, only one left 2013?, has 1600 of options. Lift gate heated seats... Anyway, the Energi is the deal right now. And they have 8 of them.

    If I used 5.5 tax rate, the Energi with tax would be about equal to the C-max SE before any tax. Since the Energi is an SEL trim at base, it has leather seats, fog lamps, backup cam, and some others options not on the SE model.

    And it is a plug-in with 16+- miles battery boost.

    Oh WTH, maybe I'll wait to see if they go to $5000 rebates.
     
  16. dr61

    dr61 Well-Known Member

    In the nice weather we are having now (no AC, windows open) we are getting 27 miles in EV driving around town.
     
  17. CmaxVsPrius

    CmaxVsPrius Moderator

    If the price were the same I would get the Prius, because you'll probably get better gas mileage overall. I can get 60 miles per gallon when I drive my Prius. I'm lucky if I get 45 when I drive my see CMax. The plug-in part will extend your range and give you better mileage on short commutes when you have the battery charged up. But once your commute is up over 40 to 50 miles, then you really rely on the hybrid part of the car, which is where the Prius just runs circles around the CMax.

    As far as comfortable Drive, the CMax has the advantage there. Smooth quiet and more passenger space in it. But the battery pack behind the seat sticks up a lot more than what you see in the Prius plug-in, which is flat behind the seat.

    I'm going to the Ford dealership today though, because I'd rather have the CMax plug-in than my regular CMax hybrid, and they have an extra two or $3000 as a rebate on them right now at the end of the year. I could pick up a ford for around 26K after tax credit. The Toyota would cost me at least 30K.
     
  18. Paymaster

    Paymaster Well-Known Member

     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  19. CmaxVsPrius

    CmaxVsPrius Moderator

    Ford dealer appraised my low mile high end SEL at $23K yesterday. I expected 25. They didn't want it at all. That's 25% depreciation in year one. I have to try a second dealer. They showed an $8500 difference to get an Energi with the 302A package. So that would be $4400 after tax credit.

    I am so put off by Ford and the C-max mpg farce, I'm ready to bag their hybrid and their brand. I'll keep my Prius for high mpg commuting and get a stupid normal car for this C-max replacement. On a dealers lot down the road I saw a 2013 Impala and a 2011 Mustang combined for less than the $30k pre tax credit price of the Energi.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  20. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    If it's paid for I'd just drive it, take whatever FE it gives you (has to be better than an Impala!) and write to Ford explaining why you will neither advocate for their brand nor purchase another. (Didn't Hyundai compensate recent buyers when they had a similar issue a couple of years ago?) No point taking the steep and unavoidable trade-in hit if FE disappointment is the major problem. Ford won't even notice, much less feel an impact if you buy something else.
     

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