Elantra Touring 2012 AT

Discussion in 'Start Your Journey Here' started by pressingonalways, Mar 27, 2013.

  1. hi all,

    I've been lurking around these forums for quite a bit trying to master the best MPG techniques. Unfortunately, I have not been satisfied with the results I have been getting. I have been averaging 25-27mpg. I live in NYC so I have lots of stop and go driving so perhaps my expectations are too high, but I would like to get similar results as WriConsult (http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39872) as we have basically the same car. He gets 34-36 consistently, although he has a MT.

    Here are the techniques I currently use:

    - Got a scanguage
    - DWL - I aim for 70-75 LOAD on the scanguage everytime I accelerate
    - FAS @ lights, I cannot do engine off coasting because I hear it will have negative effects on the AT
    - DWB
    - Pulse and Glide - pulsing @ 70-75 load up to 55 or 60mph, then gliding in neutral down to around 40-45
    - when coming to an immediate stop, I brake in gear to take advantage of DFCO
    - Tires at 40PSI

    Am I missing something or is it just that I am a city driver and I can't expect high MPG out of a non-hybrid car, especially not with AT? The max MPG I ever got in highway driving is 36-38mpg.

    Welcome to hear any feedback! Thanks everyone!
     
  2. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    Welcome to CleanMPG!
    In the NYC area, you will have your hands full finding the right mix of what will work for you to beat the EPA. It depends on traffic and terrain, and you will find your Elantra Touring AT responds better to some techniques while others show less promise.

    The Pulse and Glide you describe can work with the 55 to 40 mph delta when traffic allows, but with a *deep* ridge ride in the right lane. The parkways in our area are great for P&G, but make sure you're pulsing on the ascent and just prior to the peak is when you want to transition to NICE-on to glide over the top and down the hill and partially up the next hill before pulsing again.

    In heavier traffic, stick to DWL with a delta of no more than 5 mph.

    When accelerating, a load of 70-75 is too much. Load will likely be at or below 50%, but look for acceleration with a low number on the tach when the transaxle upshifts. Done properly, you want a gentle acceleration rate.

    Braking in gear is good to keep fuel cut on the table, but the ultimate goal is to avoid the brake pedal altogether. A good four second buffer is a good start (if out on the open road), as is light timing (in around town), and you want to keep brake usage to an absolute minimum.

    It's a good idea to review Beating the EPA and the main points to focus on in our area are anticipatory focus, light timing, ridge riding and DWB - all of which should be invisible to other drivers when done properly.

    Where in the NYC area are you? There are few CleanMPG'ers in your area and help shouldn't be too far away.
     
  3. Thanks for the welcome! I'm in Brooklyn, NY.


    I try to also keep the tach low, but isn't accelerating too slow counter-productive to good fuel economy? Don't I want to get to the highest gear as efficiently and fast as possible (low RPM, 70-75% max torque?). I used to try to accelerate really slow, keeping tach at 1600-1800 and it would take me 30 seconds to go from 0 to 50. Now I accelerate as hard as I can while keeping the tach as low as possible (2000-2300 rpm) and easing off a bit around the gear changing speeds to try to get the transmission to upshift.


    Does ridge riding really give that much benefit? I just try to avoid the potholes. :)


    What's the target load when you try to DWL in heavy traffic?


    I read the article on beating the EPA, but NYC lights change really quick, stay red too long, and the streets are too short to have any room to coast and wait for the light to turn green. :(
     
  4. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    You really need to meet up with Maxx, then. He'll show you more in 5 minutes than he can tell you online in 5 hours. I can vouch for him, we've traveled together. He's a good guy and you'll enjoy the visit.

    I don't drive a hyundai but what I do in my Odyssey is shoot for a moderate 1800-2000 rpm accelerating. Not too fast, not too slow. I'm not the fastest or the slowest from a light.
     
  5. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    Depending on the route within Brooklyn and the time of day, you are trying to cover some of the most congested roads in the country. That isn't an excuse to surrender but rather a challenge to do the best you can in a very hostile (in the context of fuel economy) environment.
    A low tach trumps any LOD number on the gage. When creeping in town, go for the lower tach number. When a brisk 0-50 run is needed, fake-shifting as you describe and then keeping an eye on LOD to keep it high but not so high that you get a downshift is about the best you can do. If you need to do more than a couple of these 0-50-0 runs in normal commuting, you should probably reconsider your route because there is a lot of energy loss in these sudden changes in speed.
    Ridge riding offers a greater margin of safety because it places your car out of the 'normal' position in the lane, and makes your car more visible to inattentive drivers.
    In heavy traffic, there is no fixed target for LOD because it changes constantly based on terrain, speed, engine rpm, and several other factors. In heavy traffic, the goal is to maintain an ample buffer ahead and keep rolling no matter how slow the forward speed needs to be to keep the car moving rather than stopping completely. Check instant mpg and you should see Your Touring will offer 15mpg or more at between 5 and 10mph - not great but it's much more than the zero you get if you zoom up to the obstruction ahead, step on the brake to convert kinetic energy to heat, and then sit there at 0mpg.
    You are spot on with the description of Brooklyn commuting. Wayne and I were driving into Manhattan yesterday to deliver the Spark press car to a garage and then walk up to the auto show. He was reiterating that the NYC traffic is worse than what he sees in Chicago and even in southern California. The goal is to "Beat the EPA", of course, but in local conditions, running E10 winter gas, dealing with the cold wet weather we've been having lately, and choosing a sub-optimal time to drive are all going to create the perfect storm of obstacles.

    The goal is not to give up, no matter how bad the commute might be. Even under the worst possible conditions, techniques can be applied to mitigate the effects of traffic, terrain, or even temperature. what would otherwise be a dismal mpg result can be improved, and even marginal improvements should be pursued.

    You can also read The Sonata On Trial to see how not quite hitting EPA city can sometimes be a victory in the context of extreme conditions that are far worse than the official dynamometer test.
     
  6. Thanks Maxx for all the great tips... Though I haven't had time to reply, I have been thinking about them and trying to apply them when I have been driving around. I'm happy to report on my road trip, I got 37.4MPG to my tank!! (the touring is rated for 23/30/26 combined) so I think the techniques are paying off...

    Back in the city though, the new techniques aren't really do much better than how I was doing last year during the same time period... I am beating EPA by 1 or 2 MPG, but I was already doing that last year...

    Column1Column2Column3Column4Column5Column6Column7Column8Column9Column10Column11Column12Column13Column14
    DateCommentsLandFootA/CTraf %City %Sub %Hwy %Hwy SpdMPGMilesGal.Cost
    06/23/13flatlighthvy20305456527.3317.811.644.07
    05/27/13flatlightlight10305556527.8340.312.245.55
    05/11/13flatlightlight0515806531.7298.99.430.12
    05/11/13flatlightlight015946537.4329.08.829.00
    05/09/13flatlightlight055906532.2388.11238.52
    05/05/13flatlightnone201010606532.0269.38.426.92
    04/21/13flatlightnone203010406526.4342.212.944.00


    http://www.truedelta.com/my-garage/mpg-143999

    the +30mpgs were all during my roadtrip when I went to Virginia. 37.4 was on my return trip from VA to NY down I81 so I got better fuel efficiency because I was going to lower elevation.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 4, 2013
  7. tribosessive

    tribosessive Well-Known Member

    Best mpg 36 combined with mild hypermiling techniques before I had ever heard of the word "hypermiling;" LRR tires (GY Assurance FuelMax); factory fill oil replaced by Red Line 0W20; had to be lots of moly in there; residual from FF and plus RL is a high moly oil; purchase date: 3.01.2012; current odometer: 131,706. miles. best mpg probably with 5MT-50mph highway; you've probably maxxed out mpg; try Sustina 0W20, TGMO 0W20, or Mazda w/moly 0W20 and premium LRR tires to squeeze out another 2 mpg; great work, buddy; talk to mod WriConsult.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2013

  8. Yeah, I'm thinking about switching out to LRR tires when I finally switch from my original tires... I was thinking about Bridgestone Ecopia EP422 or Michelin Primacy MXM4 with GreenX. How do you feel with the FuelMax tires? I heard that it produced a lot of cabin noise and the grip wasn't so good. My first choice right now would be MXM4 as the price is better than the other two.
     
  9. tribosessive

    tribosessive Well-Known Member

    I think it's road noise. That seems to have been the case both previously with the fuel max tires, and now with some bargain priced Kumho LRR's. xcel liked the Continentals used in the recent gwr run. The fuel max tires made a definite difference in mpg as did the Sustina motor oil. I want to emphasize that the oils I mentioned are significantly lighter than even Mobil1 0W20 AFE. I used Sustina and Good Year Assurance fuel max for 60k miles and have a good grip on what happens, to wit a healthy 3% mpg increase. I applaud your efforts and look forward to your future reports.
     
  10. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    I use Fuel Max on my Prius. (15" wheels). Running mid 40s PSI I've found them solid on the dry, fine in snow but a bit loose on the wet.
     

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