Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-13 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

Discussion in 'In the News' started by xcel, Jan 21, 2013.

  1. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    Thanks Wayne for detailed experiences so far:). Here are some of my findings/comments with my Accord PHEV:

    - Although price is 40K I get 5K incentives which brings price down to $35K. It's fully loaded so comparable to the $35K hybrid model. The bigger difference is trunk space but I'm fine with using back seat if I ever need it:). The HOV lane access does make a diff for me.
    - 2 weeks ago it seems Honda increased the EV range from 17 to 21 miles. Not sure if that was intentionally or mistake. Or maybe just some computational change, not sure. It's back to 17.5 miles now.
    - I use chargepoint to find locations but with the limited range and efficient HEV mode I only really recharge at work or when I happen to be at our local shopping center where it's free (takes 38 minutes at 110V)
    - I get always 17-19 miles EV range by pushing the HEV button at right times. At lower speeds I use the EV only range but I noticed when in HEV mode it still will use EV for accelerating (unless maybe you keep power at 1-2 bars)
    - Although setup is very similar to Hybrid I do get often more than 2-3 miles recharge in stop & go traffic. So I could imagine Hybrid to get little bit lower mpg in certain situations (also going downhill for few miles)
    - Navigation works pretty well for me including FM traffic. But not sure if that's because I'm in North California and directions are less complex. It shows me here even lane information.
    - If there's one thing I wish Honda would change then it's the seats. Leather seats would have been easier to maintain
     
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  2. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    I see the same thing with the PHEV: at 65 mph the instant mpg shows low 40's but I noticed it's charging at times even at cruising and it goes in and out of EV mode (about every 30 sec or so). So average should go up but I found it impossible to accurately test mpg without long flat roads.

    I don't understand the price differences mentioned. I think it's lot closer (if you only look at MSRP) Look at this comparison:

    - Fully loaded Camry Hybrid: $34,960
    - Honda Hybrid Touring: $ 35,695

    - Base Camry Hybrid: $ 27,910
    - Base Accord Hybrid $ 29,945

    Content is probably bit different. Accord has lane view watch monitor and LED lights. Not sure about base models. Then again you can get bigger discount with Camry but eventually that will happen with Accord as well since it's newer vehicle.

    I don't miss Sirius/XM as I just use a 32GB USB flash drive and you could use Pandora to stream music from your phone. The FM traffic is free and it works fairly well in my area. With XM you'd have to pay (and smartphone is still better so wasn't too interested in paying for it). Then again I can see if you prefer listening to XM/Sirius you'd miss it.
     
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  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Luke:

    Thanks for the experiences with yours. The NAVI has Lane Assist and Junction View but it is not as snappy or easy to follow as Garmin’s with the same. I really miss the PSL shown but am still learning about its capability so it might be in the setup.

    Regarding the competitors pricing, it is the discounts that can be had with the TCH and HSH. $23K for the HSHs and $24K for the TCHs is pretty easy to find right now.

    Here is the last 357.4 miles displayed (360.3 miles actual) per the multiple day aFCD display.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-11 Review

    [​IMG]

    The Current was me driving a short distance locally, driving to SDSU and Qualcomm Stadium for a college football game afterwards last night on two complete charges.

    The 1st Prev was Marian driving her commute to work, to a restaurant, and back home in the rain on one charge.

    The 2nd Prev was the drive from San Diego to LA, looping around the LA area and back with 3 complete charges.

    The 3rd Prev was Marian driving her commute from work without a charge.

    In a few hours I will be performing one of my least favorite tests as I head out to knock out the steady states in the Camp Pendleton area. Winds are predicted to be less than 5 mph and temps after 11:00 AM PST are expected to climb to the mid 60s.

    Wayne
     
  4. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    That's 357.4 miles on 4 gallons of gasoline (89 mpg) and about 18 kWh (about $2.16) of electricity. Nice.

    /Bring on the steady states! I love (reading about) those!
     
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  5. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    How can you tell it's 18 kwH? I wish I would be able to see that information (I think Fusion does show EV miles driven).

    Unfortunately PG&E charges me 31 cents per kWh. I guess punishment that I'm low energy consumer on a tiered plan. I could switch to time of day plan but calculations shows it wouldn't save me anything unless I'd charge more. Only consolidation perhaps is that CA energy mix is little bit greener.
     
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  6. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    ... but my favorite! That simple test, along with the EPA city, provides very good clues what we can realistically hope to get from a car.
     
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  7. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III


    Yes there's no PSL. I don't think many car navigation systems have that (maybe Audi with their road scan?). My smartphone does have it and no doubt Garmin or smartphone are better systems (except when losing GPS like a garage or in city maybe).

    Although you get discounts with Toyota it must have some effect on residual value (and they have higher fleet sales compared to Honda as well). That said Honda will get into discounts also after 2-3 years in their model cycle.

    I wish Toyota would switch back to 4-5 year model cycle. Next Prius is now expected 2015 according to Toyota latest interview:-(. It's almost like they are taking a break after their success.
     
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  8. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    I don't know that it was 18 kWh. I was just surmising off of Wayne's 6 charges and his guess at 3 kWh/charge. You'd need a meter at the wall to know for sure.

    Car and driver said 3.6 kWh.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-honda-accord-plug-in-test-review

    .31c/kwh …. YOUCH! You'd be better off not plugging in.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
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  9. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    I see. I get between 3.6 - 3.7 kWh per charge so I guess it was around 22 kWh.

    I hope one day Honda shows EV range and EV miles driven in both EV and Hybrid mode. That would be very useful. Right now I just shows gas used and not how much kWh was used. There's no eMPG display either.

    To clarify I do pay 13c/kwH up to certain baseline volume which is quickly reached. So when it's 130% baseline I pay 31 cents. I'm clearly below average in electricity usage so kind of stupid that about everyone hits this rate when they add EV charging. You can switch to day/night but then it would be more expensive for me.

    At 31c/kWh it's still roughly same price as gas but at work it's about 7c/kWh.
     
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  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Luke:

    You know your kWh used each charge once you measure it with a Killawatt once or twice. We will have to use C&Ds results for now but I really do not trust anything they do as a mag that has been in business sometimes still loses its ability to do the simplest math.

    At 3.6 kWh, the Accord PHEV-11 draws a approximately 20% more power than the Prius PHEV-11 which IIRC, consumed 2.92 kWh from flat to fully charged while at my home earlier this year. I will have to look it up.

    Wayne
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I experienced some strange activity for the steady states but not entirely unexpected given the excellent results this week and both Luke’s and Jessie’s experiences at 65 mph +.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Review

    [​IMG]
    19.7 miles (19.9 miles actual) on this charge to 0.0 miles EV range but still 3-bars of SoC left?​

    The SoC dropped to 2 bars almost immediately after I began accelerating hard to move back onto the I-5 from the maintenance lane while the ICE spun up about .4 miles later while climbing. I stopped at a Shell between leaving and losing the charge as I had a low tire pressure warning showing. Right rear was down 8.5 psi. :(

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 – Maximum Effort Drive

    [​IMG]
    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-11 - Maximum effort - 106.3 mpg over 16.5 miles displayed - 104.5 mpgUS over 16.6 miles actual.​

    I found a really nice somewhat flat 5.5 mile round trip city loop in the San Diego area. The elevation delta from beginning to end was only 50’ which for this area is almost impossible to find. It took me a year to find it but I know where to do my city testing. :)

    This result was after 3 Round trips from no charge (2 bars to 2 bars) SoC.

    What is interesting is this is the second Midsize that has breached triple digits with the 13 Passat TDI also easily breaking that number last fall.

    As it stands, the 2013 VW Passat TDI stands leading the pack at 114.5 mpg, the 2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 (in charge sustaining mode) is second at 104.5 mpg, the 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid is third at 93.5 mpg, the Toyota Camry Hybrid is fourth at 78.9 mpg and the 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid (2013 C-MAX Proxy) is fifth at 72.1 mpg.

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 – Grocery shopping

    [​IMG]

    I was a little concerned about this one given the Accord PHEVs cargo volume is spec’ed at just 8.6 cu. ft. As you can see, a full shopping cart easily fits showing it is a very usable volume. However, the pack and charger take up a lot of space.

    Regarding the steady states, I have the 50, 55, 60, and 65 mph results in both directions collected but on my last Southbound 65 mph run, I saw the northbound lanes were being jammed up by the random Border patrol stop. I am thinking about heading out tonight to get the 70 mph bi-directional results and finish off the chart.

    Let’s just say the Accord PHEV-11 darn near clears 70 mpgUS at 50 mph and falls precipitously to 55 mph where it takes on a more standard rolling off the edge as speed increases chart.

    You can achieve pure EV at 75 mph and under with no torque but is kind of useless above 70 mph as there is far to much Motor RPM and current needed to provide any power to use it. Even a glide is tough at those speeds.

    RPM@60 mph showed 2,170 RPM and CC has a +/- 1 mph softness built into it to handle ascents and descents. Not as much as the HCH-III unfortunately but anything is better than nothing imho.

    Wayne
     
  12. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    I'm thinking the 240v charge electronics on most of the other plugged in cars has been more efficient than the 120v, … so there's something else to factor in.

    / on the 65 mph+ ss mpg's, I'm afraid the Accord hybrid's small displacement ICE will start to get beat down a little bit here(?).

    Wayne,
    104.5 mpg is, of course, outstanding... But I wonder if more experience with this new drivetrain (ie better understanding of Honda's software) might yield even higher results?
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
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  13. jcp123

    jcp123 Caliente!

    Fantastic! Makes me wonder why plug-ins haven't been the predominant form of hybrids so far? Does it really cost that much for an inverter/transformer/whatever? I sell 12v to 110/120v inverters at work for $20. And it gives me hope that a prediction I had long ago - that normal-looking hybrids will lead the charge for getting hybrids into the market vs. space-shippy things like the Prius - might yet come true.
     
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  14. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    Great info:). I never knew exact mpg at each speed and looking forward to the graph! I suspected around 70 mpg at 50 since I got about 63 mpg at 55 (but it's hilly here).

    The pure EV cutoff threshold I found is 65 mph. When I have some EV left I have to drive at or below 65 mph otherwise I cannot drain EV completely. That said at 60 mph the EV battery drains so fast that I try to avoid that at all cost.
    Also EV SOC display is not linear: once it gets to 0.0 it will only jump back to 1-2 EV miles after recharging decent amount and display is not refreshing anymore until it got some decent amount of state back.

    With Chargepoint I get detailed reports. See below for 240V charging. I wonder why is Honda using only 55% of capacity? I understand it's about preserving batteries but seems bit low.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    Only 55% of total capacity? Wow! They really want to make sure they don't f@ck things up this time. Let's see the 5 to 10 year test on this from everyone to know if they got it right!
     
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  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Review

    [​IMG]
    Rear View Camera - Inside w/ grid lines and outside actual distance separation.​

    I am not sure if this was ever studied before but I found it quite interesting as to how good the rear view camera was in the 2014 PHEV-13, HEV and conventional Accord.

    [​IMG]
    Outside seating suede and internal upholstery.​

    An unusual yet stylish addition to the base Accord PHEV-13. The seat was both supportive and ergonomic yet soft and high end to the touch. All in, I thought this was one of the most comfortable cloth seats I have had the pleasure to sit in. It could use a high end lower seat cushion extension like those in high end luxury cars but that is not in the Accord’s nature. All in, very comfortable.

    Wayne
     
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Last drive of the Accord PHEV-13 from San Diego to LA…

    2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 Review

    [​IMG]
    22.0 miles with 0.1 miles of AER left on single charge.​

    At 0.1 miles of EV left and 22.0 miles out with a nicely sloped downhill down the I-5 to take… Take the long glide of course. ;)

    [​IMG]
    23.1 miles (23.3 miles actual) to single charge run out.​

    After three full charge to run outs. The first full charge allowing 21.0 miles, the second 19.9 miles and the third at 23.1 miles, the PHEV-13 is allowing almost double its range with an average 21.3 miles on a single full charge when pushed.

    [​IMG]
    100.0 miles (100.8 miles actual) from Home to the Press Fleet drop off at 90.7 mpg (89.1 mpg actual).​

    With the 23.1 miles of range from this mornings charge, the actual mpg on gasoline for the final 77.7 miles was 77 miles/(100.8 miles/89.1 mpg) or 68.7 mpgUS.

    Not as good as we have recently experienced but not bad for 46 mpgUS rated automobile.

    [​IMG]
    Swapping the 2014 Honda Accord PHEV-13 out for a 14 Accord HEV.​

    Wayne
     
  18. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    That is one fine looking auto! Seems to deliver in all aspects. Great Family size auto as well. H
     
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  19. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    Did you finish your steady state tests yet Wayne? Also suede in a car interior where it can get wet does not seem like a good idea. I imagine Honda is protecting it somehow though?
     
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  20. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    Re: Honda’s 2014 Accord PHEV-11 Dives Deep into CARB LEV-III

    I don't think these are suede. These are bio-fabric seats made from corn. I called Honda if I could use a Scotchguard protector and they didn't know as it might cause issues since these are special bio-fabric seats. I'd rather had the option of leather seats in that case...
     
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