VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk of the year hands down

Discussion in 'Hero and Jerk of the Day' started by fordman50, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. fordman50

    fordman50 New Member

    VA Governer declares war on clean deisel and Hybrids with new tax policy
    Bob’s McDonnell’s plan to cut the gas tax, keep diesel tax and fine hybrid users is wrong headed on so many levels that I don’t know where to start.

    1. This does not pass basic tax fairness test.
    a. Public policy 101 teaches us that those that consume the good should pay for it. This proposal spreads the road cost to everyone regardless if they use it or paid already for it in another manner.
    b. Double taxes poor that already pay point of service tax for public transportation
    c. Double taxes Cleans Diesel drivers (think VW TDI=55 MPG)
    d. Double taxes Hybrid drivers
    e. Triple taxes the cleanest and emerging TDI hybrids coming out soon

    2. This plan is horrible for the environment because has the unintended consequence of promoting gas guzzlers while suppressing cleaner technologies.
    a. Bad for Virginians respiratory health
    b. Bad for Virginia’s sky’s
    c. Bad for the Chesapeake Bay
    d. Bad for global warming.

    3. We need to do the opposite of Bob’s plan and RAISE the cost of gas and LOWER the cost of clean diesel.
    a. Doing so is a conservative market driven approach to reducing pollution.
    b. Doing so helps Virginia Businesses by lowering their operating cost as goods and services are mostly fueled by Diesel.
    c. Doing so promotes emerging clean diesel technologies such as TDI, Blue Tech, and Diesel Hybrids.
    d. Doing so promotes cleaner hybrid technologies
    e. Doing so dissuades the use of high polluting SUVs
    f. Doing so promotes car pooling and the use of public transportation with not only cleans our skies but has the added benefit of removing expensive congestion from our highways.
    g. Doing so is fair because the more you use our roads the more you pay its progressive.

    It is not socially responsible for Virginia’s Environment. People like me who drive a VW TDI and Hybrid get taxed twice while SUV drivers only pay sales tax. People like my friend Donald Holmes (an urban republican in Richmond) that does even own a car and just pays point of use fees for public transportation will now have to pay increased sales tax to pay for roads they don’t drive on so they get double taxed too. Diesel will now be even more expensive that gas as will Hybrid ownership so we can expect to see more SUVs and more greenhouse gasses in VA with this ill conceived plan while the poor and the environmentally responsible are penalized. If anything gas taxes should be treated like a luxury or sin tax because burning harms us all and that would drive its use down. Conversely clean diesel tax should be lessened to boost the superior technology AND to drive the cost of food and consumer goods down to help the economy. I seriously hope this plan is scrapped, please write your representatives.
    There is a reason why no other states have canned their gas tax, because is a BAD IDEA. Most states and countries are actually INCREASING their gas tax as conservative market driven solution
     
  2. CRT1

    CRT1 Newbie McNewbster

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    What is the proposal from the governor?
     
  3. ALS

    ALS Super Moderator Staff Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    Last thing I read was he wanted to raise the sales tax from 5% to 5.8% and eliminate the states fuel tax. I didn't dig into the piece deep at all just the first paragraph. So the OP might be right with his assertion.
     
  4. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    It starts a conversation, the first sentence of which is "but that's a stupid idea".

    As far as the OP's suggestion about lowering the tax on diesel:
    - It has more embedded energy
    - If the Jetta is anything to go by, the equivalent diesel cars are heavier and therefore cause more road damage than a standard gasoline vehicle. It's the same issue that hybrids have.

    I'd support adjusting diesel taxes down to match gasoline based on energy content, but not lower. Then index them (just like everything else) to create a more rational norm. Then adjustments can be made as needed for fleet economy changes and underlying cost changes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013
  5. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    Virginia already has one of the lowest state fuel taxes in the country, and even slightly raising the sales tax, its still pretty low. Removing the state fuel tax means that it will be cheaper to travel to Virginia, bringing more tourism dollars. Virginia has long known the benefits of low tax rates encouraging tourism. There are several shopping destinations in the state that bus people in from northern states with high sales taxes. Low fuel and tobacco taxes ensure that people stop in Virginia while traveling and spend money in Virginia as opposed to spending it elsewhere. As a hybrid driver and a Virginia resident of over 36 years, I really don't get the OP's point.
     
  6. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    Our Gov- a Republican-wants to eliminate the state income tax
    AND RAISE THE SALES TAXES to make up for it.
    Yeah-typical Republican-regressive taxes are fine- give the rich tax breaks to invest in China Brazil Pakistan- emerging economies!
    Our average sales tax is already about 8.8%(state local)-they want to tack 1-3 points on it- yeah a 12% sales tax!
    Maybe maybe they will keep the grocery medications exemptions-but takes more than meds and food to stay alive.
    Tax on Hybrids?? Typical Republican over reach-Rush Limbaugh type stuff-are they serious about that??
     
  7. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    Sales taxes are flatter and fairer, the more you consume the more you pay.. it also undercuts the underground economy and makes everyone pay their fair share..
     
  8. CRT1

    CRT1 Newbie McNewbster

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    This is not true. Sales taxes are about as regressive as you can get. The rich tend to consume less than the poor in terms of % of their overall income. Therefor the poor pay a much higher % of their income to sales taxes just to acquire the necessities.

    This is also not true. It encourages the grey market were people would avoid paying sales taxes by selling goods "under the table".

    You are 0 for 2, Herm. :p

    That said, I am in favor of shifting the tax structure toward sales tax and away from income taxes because it would encourage people to make more and save more.
     
  9. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    Jindal is a right wing ideologue
    He probably realizes it will run off the poor-drive down entitlement costs.
    Shift them to other states of course.
    Or, if things work out well-just starve them to death.
    He has reformed grade school HS education-a good thing
    But has absolutely slaughtered universities-and Medical Education
    Typical Rep stuff-Only po folks who will be able to go to college are those on the GI bill
    And "for profit" "universities" Devry Phoenix etc- are scamming that money -handing out worthless "degrees"
    so you'll have to serve in one of the pointless Rep wars(while their kids don't) to get ahead
    and then the for profits will STEAL your GI benefits
     
  10. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    Look CRT1, a poor person pays 14 cents tax on a $1.49 package of din-dongs, a rich person pays $1 million in taxes for that $10 million yacht they purchased.. the rich person created lots of jobs and the poor person just got a bit fatter and sicker.. which one do you want to promote?.. the din-dong eater should pay more since they are hurting themselves and society as a whole!

    Progressive and recessive taxes are just another label created by socialists. It distorts truth when your only argument comes from the dictionary written by the NYT
     
  11. CRT1

    CRT1 Newbie McNewbster

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    No sales tax on food, and 20% sales tax on yachts. Then the rich guys is making more jobs by supporting further government expansion and the poor guy gets fatter and sicker thus also creating jobs in the weight loss and heath care industries. Bam! Problem solved! You're welcome, America.
     
  12. aca2983

    aca2983 Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    1) This has no chance of passing
    2) He's trying to work the Nova vs. Rova angle since sales tax receipts are probably higher in Nova.
    3) This will win a few primary voters in New Hampshire.
     
  13. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    Around here , it also takes beer , fast internet , and gasoline. But actually , that's just a lifestyle "choice" for most people , including myself. You really just need food , and for some , meds.

    In a related story , Bob McDonnell just announced that Virginia plans to secede from the USA.
     
  14. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    That's wrong according to the survivalism I've seen: it's shelter, water, food.
     
  15. bluejoey

    bluejoey no cars > fewer cars > heavier cars

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    A fair thing to do would be to compare the same purchase, rather than vastly different ones (although there is some irony in hailing one individual for purchasing a $10 million boat while billions on our planet struggle to make ends meet and then going on to imply the individual purchasing $2 of sugar is the greater societal burden). Whether you're rich or poor, if you want to drink milk or buy a particular brand of cereal, bread, or other food that most people eat, it'll cost you about the same amount. The difference is that you'll have much more money left over if you're rich than if you're poor. For all their faults, most US governments understand this, which is why most state governments and the federal government use progressive tax structures.
     
  16. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    "although there is some irony in hailing one individual for purchasing a $10 million boat while billions on our planet struggle to make ends meet and then going on to imply the individual purchasing $2 of sugar is the greater societal burden"

    Irony but truth.. Those $10 million were not dumped in the ocean.. lots of people were employed, those employees in turn spent the money doing other things and so on.. while the ding-dong eater will eventually end up with diabetes and a heavy burden to medicaid or medicare.. that YOU will pay for.

    Do you see why we dont need to subsidize the ding-dong eater with lower taxes but we do need to encourage that yacht owner?.. Welcome to the Right side.

    Obviously I exaggerate for effect, but the principle holds
     
  17. bluejoey

    bluejoey no cars > fewer cars > heavier cars

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    ^ Most governments and economists realize that's not the truth. As I said, that's why the federal government has a progressive tax structure (as does nearly every democratic government on the planet), and also why most states (all but 7, I believe) have progressive tax structures. In fact, the person most economists consider to be the father of economic and capitalistic theory, Adam Smith, said as much hundreds of years ago:

    "The subjects of every state ought to contribute toward
    the support of the government, as nearly as possible, in
    proportion to their respective abilities; that is, in
    proportion to the revenue which they respectively
    enjoy under the protection of the state ….[As Henry
    Home (Lorde Kames) has written, a goal of taxation
    should be to] 'remedy inequality of riches as much as
    possible, by relieving the poor and burdening the rich.'"
     
  18. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    I think its detrimental to the social advancement of mankind, and promotes poverty by subsidizing it. We need to do the opposite but unfortunately democracy promotes progressive taxes, all that bread and circuses stuff... it is why uncontrolled democratic governments are unstable, sooner or later.
     
  19. CRT1

    CRT1 Newbie McNewbster

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    There are plenty of countries in the world that have no government "subsidization" of the poor and, alas, they have a lot more poor people than we do. Your over-simplified Repubilcan-speak is getting tiresome. Oversimplifying complex topics only drives thinking people away from your position, Herm.

    The key is providing the poor with the opportunity for social mobility by providing a base level of food, medical care, and quality education without making the dole so comfortable that you remove the incentive to work. This is a tricky line to walk and unfortunately Uncle Sam is a being too generous at the moment, IMO.

    One of the problems we have with the Right in this country is that none of them were alive during or care to think about a time when we did not have our social safety net. There is a reason that Right & Left got together and built these safety nets. We may have problems with these systems, but it is naive to think that we would be better off with 45 million (and 1 out of 3 kids) in this country starving in the street.
     
  20. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Re: VA Governer, Bob McDonnell wins Jerk on the year hands down

    I'm not saying that we let people starve on the streets with open sores.. just take them to a re-education camp for their safety.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013

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