C-MAX and Fusion Hybrid starting to get bad press

Discussion in 'Ford' started by Paymaster, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Bluejoey:

    I will create a new thread when I have more time :(

    Ford C-MAX vs. Toyota Prius v vs. Toyota Prius “Liftback”

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    Prius v in the side mirror with Prius liftback out the side window when leaving the Yuma rest stop. I liked this shot…

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    Prius liftback up front, v in chase. Crossing into AZ at dusk. A border patrol stop. 70 mph ECo Cruise

    [​IMG]
    Time to refuel at a Circle K in Phoenix.

    [​IMG]
    C-MAX Reful: 37.2 mpg - 359.7 miles - Fuel History and Coach.

    [​IMG]
    Prius liftback 47.1 mpg after 368.9 miles. Prius v displaying 43.6 mpg after 368.4 miles. 66 mph average speed for the drive!​

    Wayne
     
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The actuals are coming up...

    Wayne
     
  3. Paymaster

    Paymaster Well-Known Member

    Great pictures. So far the story seems to be as expected.
     
  4. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    Or maybe just change the "bad" in the name of this thread to "good".
     
  5. RichXKU

    RichXKU Well-Known Member

    not looking good for the c-Max :-/
     
  6. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I must have been thinking about Wayne's full-on test of the C-Max ( a different thread , maybe ) instead of this high speed joyride. A "real world" test means a lot to most people, I guess. I kinda like Wayne's World.
     
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Rich:

    Thanks!

    Edwin… Hmmm.

    Rich, unfortunately the C-MAX did not perform as well as I had hoped. After the all-out LA to San Diego drive, the C-MAX performed exceptionally well with a 67.2 mpgUS result yet when you “just drive it” it returns absolutely abysmal results???

    Edwin, I like my world better too!!! 70 to 80 mph speeds no matter the road is nuts!!!

    Ford C-MAX vs. Toyota Prius v vs. Toyota Prius “Liftback”

    2013 Ford C-MAX SEL - EPA rated at 47 mpgUS highway
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    C-MAX consumed 10.271 gallons... 37.2 mpg displayed with 365 actual miles traveled /10.271 gallons = 35.537 mpgUS actual.

    2012 Toyota Prius v - EPA rated at 40 mpgUS highway
    [​IMG]
    Prius v consumed 8.953 gallons... 43.6 mpg displayed with 365 actual miles traveled/8.953 gallons = 40.768 mpgUS actual.

    2012 Toyota Prius liftback – EPA rated at 48 mpgUS highway
    [​IMG]
    Prius liftback consumed 8.430 gallons... 47.1 mpg displayed with 365 actual miles traveled /8.430 gallons = 43.298 mpgUS actual.​

    With a 99% all-highway drive and driving like everybody else without a care for fuel economy, the C-MAX proved what most current owners have unfortunately discovered. It simply falls way short of its EPA highway figure.

    With the above, this particular Ford C-MAX I rented from Avis in San Diego ($55/day is not a bad deal imho) fell short by a significant 24.4%.

    This compares to the 2012 Prius liftback with the heavier 17 in wheels and tires the package 5 adds and that was pulled out of the LA Press fleet which fell short by just 9.8%.

    Than we have the Prius v. I knew after my first drive during the preview in Half Moon Bay, CA two years ago that it was something special and it proved its worth. On this very high speed all-highway drive with an average speed of 66 mph, the v achieved 1.9% better than its EPA highway rating! This was an impressive result in my book.

    All told, Ford’s EPA submitted results will surely be scrutinized. In the real world, the 47 mpgUS highway pronouncement should probably be just 35 to 37 mpg instead of the 47 mpg currently displayed within their adverts and on C-MAX Monroney on dealership lots across the country.

    I still have a lot more testing to complete but at least the all-highway shootout is finished including the pics.

    Rich (Paymaster) just informed me there is even more detail in the C-MAX Trip meter display providing all of the information in an easy to understand display. Sorry I did not get that and instead took 4 pics to convey the same.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  8. Paymaster

    Paymaster Well-Known Member

    Well it doesn't show you the coach. It is nice to see that for those critics that would say the poor mileage is because you didn't drive it right. According to the coach it couldn't have been much better.
     
  9. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    That Ford no-cap thing is nasty.. does anyone have a diagram of how its built?
     
  10. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    I just want to know if aerodynamic drag is the sole difference between a C-Max and a Prius
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Rich:

    I included the single Coach screen in the refueling C-MAX collage in post #161 above.

    Here is a larger shot of the same including the temp and time.

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    C-MAX at Phoenix refuel - Coach and 42 degrees F at 08:05 PM​

    Is there more than that after the trip screens? I will have to look the next time I liven up the C-MAX.

    Herm, Aero drag of the C-MAX and Prius v are "supposedly" nearly equivalent at 0.28 to 0.29 IIRC. I will have to look that up later.

    Wayne
     
  12. Paymaster

    Paymaster Well-Known Member

    One good thing for the C-MAX. At least it's Fcd isn't as far off as either Prius. Nearly 4 mpg for the liftback. That is pretty bad.
     
  13. Paymaster

    Paymaster Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I saw the coach picture earlier. I just was referring to the comment about the 4 pictures instead of 1. The trip screens don't show the coach at all or the history but they can show MPG and gallons used. Here is a picture I took earlier.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013
  14. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Frontal area is what I was going after.. how much of a difference does it make at these high levels of fuel economy?
     
  15. bluejoey

    bluejoey no cars > fewer cars > heavier cars

    I wonder if the EPA will take appropriate action and revise Ford's numbers, the way they did with Hyundai. Ditto with the Fusion hybrid.
     
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Herm:

    The v is approximately 2 in. thinner and 2 in shorter although both feel similar from within. The EPA certification uses aero drag (Cd x frontal area), not just Cd, for the dyno loading. Cd of the v is 0.29 and the C-MAX is 0.30.

    Bluejoey, according to the Ford PR folks I have spoken with, the C-MAX earned a solid 47 across the board on the EPA testing regimen. If it achieved that number on the EPA tests, it did but from an owner’s perspective, it sure is falling short whether said owner drives a higher percentage of city or highway.

    Wayne
     
  17. RichXKU

    RichXKU Well-Known Member

    What else are the PR folks going to say?
     
  18. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    So the C-Max has about 4 square inches more frontal area.. does not seem like it would make much of a difference.
     
  19. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Is that based on actual measured drag of the car under test, or claimed Cd×claimed frontal area? What air density do they assume in calculating the dyno loading?
     
  20. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Having trouble with algebra, Herm?
    (H+2)×(W+2) is not equal to (H×W)+4.
    (That's assuming "thinner" meant narrower, and "shorter" meant lower. If not, I'm confused, too.)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2013

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