C-MAX and Fusion Hybrid starting to get bad press

Discussion in 'Ford' started by Paymaster, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    In the summertime , I always drive without shoes. But here that means maybe May 15 through September 30.

    I remember having warm feet. Someday in 2013 , they will be warm again.
     
  2. lolder

    lolder Well-Known Member

    I only do the no EV HVB current P & G when I want to make a bragging post about mpg. or I'm trying to get the current tank mpg. up to normal after my wife has trashed it.
     
  3. DopeEdogg

    DopeEdogg Active Member

    And another drive... taking one daughter to school, and dropping the other daughter off at daycare, and then home. It was a fresh drive after the car sat in the garage all night. It was about 60 degrees at the start of the drive.

    I admit, I do drive more " MPG friendly" than I ever did in my other non-hybrid car, but I am by no means "milking" it and slowing up traffic lol. This is a typical average drive around town. I am sure others can easily get similar results.. Just go the speed limit, no hard acceleration or braking, and good numbers will happen.

    [​IMG][/IMG]
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  4. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    With 28 Hybrid C-Max's' on fuelly they show 38.7 mpg.

    With the larger Prius V 211 cars show 42.3 mpg

    If you consider the C-Max is closer to the lift back then the V then those are at 49mpg for 359 cars.

    I wounder what Ford will do about this and the buyers as well? Will it be like the HCH Lawsuit or will they do a KIA/Hyundai deal??
     
  5. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Neither, unless Ford did a Hyundai and lied.

    The C-Max has worse drag and more power than a classic Prius.. it will never match it in economy unless you drive it like a Prius.
     
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I am working to procure a C-MAX for a massive test from Christmas to mid January in California. Ford's National Press Fleet manager told me the other day we will not see one in the Chicago Press fleet until late Spring at the earliest but they do have a fleet of them in LA. The E-mails have been flying back and forth all week all the while I scouted out a lengthy portion of I-5 through Camp Pendleton while I was (I still am as my flight has been delayed for at least two hours :() for the steady states (little wind and elevation profiles are consistent with I-94 near my home). A 15 to 20 mile run in both directions at each speed in 60 to 70 degree temps should yield a gold mine of solid information.

    For the aFCD calibration, how about a drive from San Diego to Las Vegas via Death Valley, to Phoenix or Lake Tahoe and back??? I have to get into the maps to see about those other two however?

    Wayne
     
  7. DopeEdogg

    DopeEdogg Active Member

    Awesome! I can't wait to see your results! If you drive through central CA I would be glad to drive my fusion along-side for some testing lol
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  8. DopeEdogg

    DopeEdogg Active Member

    This is straight from the 2013 Ford fusion hybrid's owners manual people ! ! ! lol

    [​IMG]


    So, my guess is that all the people "test driving" the Fusion/C-Max probably are in a new car with much less than 2,000-3,000 miles on it.

    Give it some time, These cars just came out a few months ago. It will most likely take me a good 6 months from now to get 3,000 miles on my car
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  9. CRT1

    CRT1 Newbie McNewbster

    DopeEdogg, This is true for all cars, not sure why it would be MORE true for the C-Max.
     
  10. DopeEdogg

    DopeEdogg Active Member

    Well, not necessarily MORE true, but just when people only put a couple hundred miles on the c Max/fusion and then say it is under performing, that's kinda an invalid statement...
     
  11. thunderstruck

    thunderstruck Super Moderator

    Knowing that this is touted as an economy car, and expecting that journalists driving the cars would be extremely aware of fuel economy, it would be negligent of Ford to give them brand new cars with tight engines. They better be handing out cars with 2 or 3K on the clock, and if not ask whoever is in charge "what were you thinking?"
     
  12. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    With the exception of Wayne no journalist is going to get good gas mileage.. So we expect at 20% boost in economy once the car hits 2000 miles?.. bull

    Ford should have put in an ECO mode that reduced power output severely, maybe even tie it to the speed.
     
  13. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Consumer Reports wades in:

    http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-ford-inflated-fuel-economy-20121206,0,1964927.story

    Consumer Reports says Ford Fusion, C-Max don't achieve MPG claims

    "Ford Motor Co. has been crowing about the huge fuel economy ratings of its Fusion and C-Max hybrids.

    Consumer Reports did its own tests and said it couldn’t replicate the 47 miles per gallon Ford is claiming for the city, highway and combined ratings for the vehicles.

    “After running both vehicles through Consumer Reports real-world tests, CR’s engineers have gotten very good results. But they are far below Ford's ambitious triple-47 figures,” the magazine, which operates its own testing center in Connecticut, said Thursday.

    In the Consumer Reports tests, the Fusion hybrid delivered 39 mpg overall and 35 and 41 in city and highway conditions, respectively.

    The C-Max hybrid achieved 37 mpg overall, with 35 and 38 for city and highway.

    “These two vehicles have the largest discrepancy between our overall mpg results and the estimates published by the EPA that we've seen among any current models,” the magazine said."
     
  14. DopeEdogg

    DopeEdogg Active Member

    I don't buy it.... I only have around 400 miles on my car, I easily get over 35mpgs. Easily! My average lifetime MPG is at 42 MPG right now, a little off from 47, but every time I drive the average lifetime MPG goes up.... city driving i get anywhere from 50-60 mpgs... I don't care who says what... I am going off my own car and my own driving style
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  15. Paymaster

    Paymaster Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  16. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    CR tests the hwy mileage at a steady 65
     
  17. CRT1

    CRT1 Newbie McNewbster

    DopeE, That is great that you are getting good mileage and are happy with the vehicle. That is not what is at issue. This is true for others here as well with the new C-Max/Fusion.

    The concern is that if folks like you that are soft-shoeing this car are only barely getting EPA on average, then the vast majority of the public will not even get a whiff of EPA.

    EPA was adjusted downward in 2008 so that it essentially matches the mean driver's experience for most cars on the road, if this turns out to not substantially be the case for the Fusion/C-Max, Ford will have a PR problem on their hands.
     
  18. DopeEdogg

    DopeEdogg Active Member

    [​IMG]

    Just saying... and I think 78 is more than the 47 advertised :)

    No light footing the throttle, maybe just where I live I can drive efficient, usually around town its almost exclusively on EV mode
     
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi CRT1:

    Good point and spot on.

    DopeEdogg, your lmpg is the one to watch while you continue to learn your FFH-II both inside and out. 3 mile runs at 80 mpg with 75 + % in EV is not a good indication as a 47 mpg rated vehicle should be seeing 60 to 80 mpg results around town every time and an easy 50 + mpg out on the Interstate at 65 + mph. I have driven the previous generation FFH to over 80 MPG for an entire tank (1,445 + miles to be exact) and it was relatively easy to do. The new Gen-III eCVT drivetrains appear to lack that capability even though they are rated more than 25% higher?

    [​IMG]
    2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid at the Fusion Hybrid Challenge in Alexandria, VA.​

    The break-in non-sense reported in the manual is just that, non-sense. 1 mpg, sure. 10 or more mpg, not even close. We have driven far to many brand new vehicles far beyond their EPA for break-in to have any real detriment.

    Since the short lead in CA when Ford ran a fuel economy challenge with the journalists on hand, I felt there was something "fishy" about the C-MAX's EPA. 19 mph avg. speed and only a 61 mpg result was the best that the journos could muster? I was not there so I can only go by second hand reports. A Prius v, hatch and c are punching out 90, 100 and 120 mpg respectively at those speeds.

    When Paymaster and I went out in his C-MAX, we may not have hit EPA at 60 mph but it was not that far off. Meaning the C-MAX still provided good fuel economy but not what the EPA numbers would suggest for most including those of us here.

    I want to see you, Paymaster and Rmncast continue to achieve better fuel economy because you paid a healthy premium for your 47/47/47 mpg Ford’s. Having to push the cars to break the EPA should not be needed as it is not in anything else we have "ever" driven.

    Ford made inquiries into this issue here at CleanMPG two months ago. I also spoke with Ford about this last month giving them a heads up that there was a Storm coming in and they had better "batten down the hatches" in preps for a backlash far worse than anything they have experienced with SYNC to date. Lack of Fuel Economy means $'s wasted and there is nothing that pisses an owner off more than not providing even close to what was promised.

    43 to 46 mpg from a 47 mpg rated C-MAX and FFH-II for the average driver is not really a problem. 35 to 39 from the 47 mpg rated C-MAX and FFH-II for the average driver = big problem. 40 + mpg is great but < 40 mpg from a $25,000 - $28,000 to start midsize hatch or sedan with a 47 mpg sticker is not so much.

    All said, I am very looking forward to getting behind the wheel and generate some worthwhile data in the C-MAX and then FFH-II afterwards as there has simply got to be more available from these two vehicles.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  20. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    The days of easy hypermiling may be coming to an end, as manufacturers learn all the tricks and apply it to the EPA cycles.
     

Share This Page