C-MAX and Fusion Hybrid starting to get bad press

Discussion in 'Ford' started by Paymaster, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    In a total rush but the Prius liftback city maximum completed as expected with a pegged aFCD. I have the liftbacks 50, 55, 60, 65 and 70 mph results. Off the top of my head incorporating the aFCD, odometer and temp compensation offsets, the liftback achieved around 57.5 mpg at 60 mph. Heading out in the C-MAX now.

    Wayne
     
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The C-MAX steady states at 50, 55, 60, 65 and 70 mph are complete.

    The C-MAX and Prius liftback are back on their way to San Diego as I begin the Prius v's steady states.

    Top of my head calcs including the aFCD and Odometer offsets + the Temp compensation show the C-MAX achieving approximately 47.6 mpgUS at 60 mph.

    I may not have time to report the v's as I may just leave for San Diego when I finish... Or not ;)

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  3. CmaxVsPrius

    CmaxVsPrius Moderator

    How much is temperature compensation? If I'm getting 39 in my C-max now at 25 degrees...

    Your 57 Prius vs 45 C-max at 60 mph are about 5-10% higher than my experience. Still, it shows again that the C-max mileage has been exaggerated by Ford.

    I'm crazy happy if I get 57 in my Prius on a tank in the summer. If I get 45 in my C-max, I'm kicking myself for buying the Ford.
     
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Just completed the Prius v steady states from 50, 55, 60, 65 and 70 mph so all three are now complete as far as data collection is concerned. From the top of my head, the Prius v pulled a respectable 53.3 mpgUS at 60 mph including the negative aFCD and odometer offsets plus the current temperature compensation.

    Ford C-MAX vs. Toyota Prius v vs. Toyota Prius Liftback

    Final tally for the 60 mph calibrated results are listed below although there may be some small errors as I have not entered any of this into a spreadsheet yet.

    2012 Prius liftback pkg. 5 – EPA rated at 48 mpgUS highway: 57.5 mpgUS
    2012 Prius v-3 – EPA rated at 40 mpgUS highway: 53.3 mpgUS
    2013 Ford C-MAX SEL – EPA rated at 47 mpgUS highway: 47.6 mpgUS

    Now time for a quick blast to San Diego tonight. I have to turn in the rental C-MAX by 02:00 PM tomorrow so I will try and complete a “just driving them around town” back to back for a std. city comparison and provide their 0 to 60’s. The C-MAX feels really strong so I suspect it will walk away with that one.

    CmaxVsPrius, I use 0.25% for every degree below 70 degrees F. The Prius liftback’s steady states were completed in 50 degree F temps, C-MAX in 49 to 46 degree F temps (use 47.5 degrees F) and the Prius v’s steady states were completed in 43 to 45 degree F temps (use 44 degrees F).

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  5. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Using the 60 mph data and under the premise that the lift back has an "accurate EPA highway" at 48 mpg,

    then, the relative "accurate EPA highway" ratings for the other two would be:

    Prius v: 44. (44.49)
    C-max: 40. (39.74)

    /curious to see the spread at 70 mph
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
  6. CmaxVsPrius

    CmaxVsPrius Moderator

    I took my 2013 C-max to the Ford dealer today because the large LCD on the dash went blank a few days ago. That meant no backup cam, nav, or other touch controls. They gave me a Ford Explorer to drive for now. I only got 19 mpg in the city. But I do like the fact they issue a rental on the spot.

    Ford has a really big problem with all the advertising that says the C-max beats the Prius V in MPG. And with people being told they can buy a C-max and beat the Prius V. Or even being told they can achieve the 47 mpg rating on any sort of consistent basis. I guarantee to you the a Ford salesman showed me a picture on his smartphone of the dash readout from a C-max showing 47 mpg when I was asking about the milage claims during my shopping. Then we went out and drove it and got 40 mpg. Yes, I still bought it because I was impressed with the good ride, the interior, and the possibility that it might get at least 45 after break-in. Oh, yes, the salesman did tout after break-in improvement.

    Anyway, Wayne's numbers from out west jive with my C-max vs Prius experience. And my C-max is in for it's second repair.
     
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Carcus:

    Just got home form taking the C-MAX back to Avis at the San Diego airport. I had the Garmin line up a 100% city route and followed the Prius v out for the first half. Swapped and followed the C-MAX to its final destination. The C-MAX had a much better showing but still missed the v on the same all city 23 mile route???

    More later.

    Wayne
     
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I added the Prius liftback city maximum to the earlier post.

    Ford C-MAX vs. Toyota Prius v vs. Toyota Prius liftback

    2012 Toyota Prius liftbaCK Pkg. 5 – EPA rated at 51 MPG city
    [​IMG]
    99.9 MPG over 14.8 miles displayed. – 99.9 MPG over 14.5 miles actual.​

    Wayne
     
  9. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Wayne-thanks

    So the Prius V is about 5.5 mpg better at actual trip speeds
    and probably that much better on any HY trip with a normal driver.
    47.6 mpg not bad- but....
    Thanks
     
  10. Paymaster

    Paymaster Well-Known Member

    So Wayne, you did the comparisons with the rental C-MAX. What happened with the press fleet one?
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Charlie:

    Yup.

    Rich, the Press fleet C-MAX is in the lot. I get to drive it tomorrow for some pics :)

    Wayne
     
  12. F8L

    F8L Well-Known Member

    Wayne,

    Forgive me if you posted this somewhere but why did they give you a Lifetback equipped with 17" tires? We both know the 15" tires are more efficient and the odometer/speedometer should be closure to accurate with the taller 15" tires. If the Five came equipped with the Toyo Proxes A20 then the FE wouldn't have been too far off the numbers for the 15" tires but lower is lower. :)

    To further muddy things up, I have found the Energy Saver A/S tire to be extremely fuel efficient in the 15" sizes so I would think the 17" version would also be fuel efficient. What is going to happen to a CMAX owner when they swap tires to a non-LRR or pretty much any other tire that is less efficient than the Energy Saver A/S? Eek!
     
  13. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Ford C-MAX vs. Toyota Prius v

    [​IMG]
    22.8 mile all-city San Diego route with a 200 ft. elevation drop from start to finish.

    [​IMG]
    Prius v up front beginning at a Shell on Del Mar Heights road and I-5.

    [​IMG]
    Prius v up front to the driver switch at a Rite Aid on the corner of Balboa and Genesee in San Diego.

    [​IMG]
    C-MAX takes the lead.

    [​IMG]
    C-MAX up front all the way into the Avis at the San Diego Airport.

    Final All-City Drive Results

    [​IMG]
    Prius v (rated at 44 mpg city): 59.7 mpg and 23.0 miles displayed. 55.8 mpg actual over 22.8 miles.

    [​IMG]
    C-MAX (rated at 47 mpg city): 54.4 mpg and 22.4 miles displayed. 52.0 mpg actual over 22.8 miles.​

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi F8L:

    Regarding the Prius liftback package 5, it was the only Prius liftback available so I took it. And yes we know the 15's are more efficient ;)

    C-MAX owners that will eventually dump their Energy Savers for a higher rolling resistance tire are going to get burned at the pump. Today a set of new Goodyear Assurance FuelMax would supply similar FE with a bit more traction as well.

    By the time the Energy Saver A/S' will need to be replaced in a few years, there will probably be a lot of even lower rolling resistance tires with better traction to choose from. I hope so for all of our sakes anyway.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  15. F8L

    F8L Well-Known Member

    Thanks!

    :stickshift:
     
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi F8L:

    You are as always welcome!

    [​IMG]
    After checking the 2013 C-MAX SEL back into Avis after 4 days and 835 miles, I went on a little excursion.

    [​IMG]
    The Prius v with palm trees on a Bay in downtown San Diego. Poor light in the shadow of a building but I liked the backdrop.

    [​IMG]
    My son in a singles skull practicing in the same San Diego Bay. ​

    His entire 8-man team is not all back from winter break yet so the few that were there went out in the singles.

    I took that last shot at 20X zoom, the F-stop opened up a touch at 5.5 IIRC and the ISO at 200 with the SX260 HS in the late afternoon sun.

    Wayne
     
  17. priusCpilot

    priusCpilot George

    What a nice test run! Thanks Wayne and the crew!

    So you your self? What EPA numbers would you give for the C-Max real world?
     
  18. Carcus

    Carcus Well-Known Member

    Looks like it should have been rated 42/40/41 to me.


    /"My son in a singles skull practicing....." ---- that's cleanmpg right there... Where's the ball cap?
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  19. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Wayne- so the Prius V 5.5 and about 4 mpg better
    Normal driver the 5.5 mpg Hy is aboout it
    But maybe with a normal driver the Prius has Perhaps slightly more of a relative advantage?
    Al least the complaints indicate that?
    Thanks
    Charlie
    PS San Diego- very pretty looking-especially when it is windy, raining ,dark and cold( 48 is cold in Louisiana when humidity is 75%) here
     
  20. Prozac

    Prozac Well-Known Member

    Such a shame. While I know there are other reasons to buy the CMax other than fuel economy, this is going to be a serious black eye if Ford doesn't figure something out.
     

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