Charging Mats Seen Boosting Market for Electric Vehicles

Discussion in 'In the News' started by atlaw4u, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. atlaw4u

    atlaw4u Well-Known Member

    [​IMG] Plug-in is not a bad solution; we just see this as a great opportunity to really improve the experience

    [FIMG=LEFT]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2011_Nissan_LEAF1.jpg[/FIMG]Mark Clothier - BLOOMBERG - June 26, 2012

    One reason electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles have hit the market with a thud is that there are strings attached. Models such as the Chevrolet Volt and Nissan Leaf are tethered. Drivers need to plug in to recharge the battery.

    A number of companies are developing ways to cut the cord, to replenish the battery wirelessly with a mat that sits on the floor. Coils on the underside of the car engage the charger when the car is parked over them. The mats are plugged in while the car isn’t. Automakers and suppliers expect to have the chargers ready for sale around 2015.

    “The feedback we see from initial Volt and Leaf buyers is that, ‘Gee, these cords get really dirty; gee, these cords get all tangled; what a pain in the neck,’” Phil Gott, an IHS Automotive analyst specializing in power-train research, said in an interview. “A wireless charger truly gives you total freedom.”

    Automakers are looking to such vehicles to comply with regulatory pressure to boost mileage and pare emissions. However, electric and plug-in vehicles aren’t even considered by 96 percent of consumers globally, Deloitte LLP said in a survey last year.

    Price and driving range deter purchases, Deloitte said, and so does charging time, which ranges from three to more than eight hours. Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA), the electric-car maker that delivered its first wholly company-produced sedans last week, had said it’s close to announcing a plugged-in “supercharger” network that can re-power one of its cars in less than an hour

    Two Methods ... [RM]http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-06-27/charging-mats-seen-boosting-market-for-electric-vehicles.html[/RM]
     
  2. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    This is a good thorough article..
     
  3. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    We've already discussed this, but this is just awful efficiency. And that's what makes this a bad idea. When you're talking about transferring kw of power, even 5% power loss is a lot of wasted power. Wireless transmission of high power is neither safe nor practical.
     
  4. EVuser

    EVuser Well-Known Member

    As Jay says........we have been there done that and it isn't worth it. CA PUC and CARB will likely drive a stake into these watt sucking vampires.:flag:
     
  5. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    why would it be unsafe?, magnetic fields dont affect living things, look at the intensity of MRI scanners and yet they are used routinely.. I would imagine metallic parts of the car would pick up the stray energy. Including the fillings in your teeth.
     
  6. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    This is part 1 of 2. Part 2 is charging through a hard surface.

    If you can do both with reasonable efficiency that would help with public charging and siting chargers since it would make it much harder to steal or vandalize the chargers.

    Then, of course, vandals can still dump all kinds of crap onto a parking space to prevent parking but at least that would take more time to do and wouldn't cause expensive permanent damage.

    Some people would pay for them for the convenience, and for value calculations induction charging would just be another multiplier.

    As for a PUC banning them: not going to happen. They haven't banned 120V charging, which is much less efficient than 240V.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  7. Bike123

    Bike123 Well-Known Member

    We are willing to deal with gas and diesel pumps that leave smelly residue on our hands, but an electric cord in our own garage is a problem? Sounds more like someone trying to create a market for a product than a real issue.

    I don't see how it "gives me total freedom." The only thing I see it solving is how to ensure that at an outdoor charging station, someone doesn't unplug my vehicle, and plug in his own. In my own garage? Locate the charger well, and the cord isn't an issue.
     
  8. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    That stuff was marketing junk. I've never noticed any residue from gas pumps. If there's anything I suspect it's people residue. ;) I always thought the main inconvenience is time and standing out in the cold (we're almost entirely self-service) but it's not something I've ever measured. When Robert Llewellyn recorded charging, he found that it took 9 seconds to plug in. So, if we assume the same amount of time to unplug, it would typically be 18 seconds a day, assuming unobstructed access to the parking space.

    However, from a long-term perspective of maximizing ~PEV use, secure cordless charging would be very helpful. Not just for urban residential on-street parking, but also for taxi ranks where cars spent significant time, but aren't sitting still.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

    Magnetic fields do affect living things. That's why the door on your microwave oven is interlocked. Would you operate your microwave oven with the door open? Now imagine that the transmitter has >10 times more power.

    Just the RFI from someone operating one of these things near your home would make receiving signals from broadcast radio or television difficult or impossible.
     
  10. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Magnetic fields certainly do affect living things. MRIs are okay because the period of exposure is short. They're not as dangerous as x-rays, but those are all right for brief periods too, aren't they? Chronic exposure, even to much lower levels of the same radiation, can be much more dangerous.

    The hazard from EMF is a function of intensity, frequency and duration. We know duration will be long and chronic. What we're not being told is either the intensity or the wave frequency of the EMF from these chargers. Without knowing those things, we can't say yet whether they're hazardous or not. But they might be.

    And this stuff does matter. People are dropping dead from cancer left and right, as I was reminded this weekend at Tour Des Chutes, a LiveStrong fundraiser. I've lost two family members to cancer and have two who are currently in valiant struggles. Much of the cancer we're seeing these days is due to the toxic world we've created for ourselves, and we should make sure we're not adding excess EMF to that.
     
  11. RedylC94

    RedylC94 Well-Known Member

    Most of the effects of magnetic fields on living things are negative, depending on frequency (thus wavelength), but there's at least one useful aspect. Some animals use the earth's magnetic field to navigate.
     
  12. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    I think a lot has to do with the extended longevity that we all enjoy..
     
  13. seftonm

    seftonm Veteran Staff Member

    People have been plugging in block heaters in -30 degree weather for decades, plugging in an EV in a garage should be a piece of cake.
     
  14. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Ding ding ding! :thumbs_up:
     
  15. CRT1

    CRT1 Newbie McNewbster

  16. 300TTto545

    300TTto545 Well-Known Member

    I have never known anyone who plugs in a block heater ..... And I spent 7 years in upstate NY.

    The vast majority of people in the US do not use block heaters.
     
  17. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    That just means that while the very cold states will be fine EVs are going to expose all the crappy wiring down south. ;)
     
  18. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Improved healthcare and increased longevity do not explain most of the increase in cancer rates.
     
  19. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Really? I grew up in MN. Most people who had garages plugged their cars in, at least some of the time. My parents would usually plug one or both cars in if it was expected to drop below zero.

    Not that they needed to: most cars -- except Fords, for some reason* -- would still start in temps well below zero. But a block heater can make the difference between having warm air blowing into the cabin within a couple minutes, versus waiting 10 minutes for it. That's a lot of shivering avoided.

    * I've jump started more Fords in cold weather than all other makes combined. That was back in the 80s, so things may have changed since then.
     
  20. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    That should make it a popular convenience option in cold places, and the wireless mats should be a lot cheaper due to the lower power.
     

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