2009 & up xgauges

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by CarlD, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    After playing around with a 2009 MMH, it appears that the PCM is using the newer ISO format even though the TBCM and TCM seem to be the same as the first gen. The CHT didn't work, but I located the new CHT PID, as well as stuff related to the VVT, which possibly could be of use. The xgauge coding for the 2009 and up CHT is as follows:

    TXD: 07E0220334
    RXF: 046245030634
    RXD: 3010
    MTH: 006400400000
    NAM: CyT

    This is in C, for F the MTH changes to:

    MTH: 002D00100C80

    This may or may not give correct readings when the temperature drops below 0C, but will be good otherwise.

    There appears to be copious PIDs related to the VVT so I will see what I can find out about them when I get another crack at the MMH.

    The ABS module as well as the RCM also use the 14229 format. Geting DTCs for these modules will be different. Lateral acceleration is available from the ABS module now, though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  2. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    Maybe I should try this, because the CHT xGauge code listed on Scanguage's website does not work on my 2008 FEH.
     
  3. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    The 2009 CyT shouldn't work on a 2008. I assume you are just getting bad readings for CHT, not a blank display?

    The SG website has a few errors in the FEH xgauges, CHT for 1st gen FEHs is:

    TXD: 07E0221624
    RXF: 046205160624 (the 8 on the SG website should be a 0)
    RXD: 3008
    MT: 000200010000
    NAM: CHT
     
  4. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    I can't confirm this, but it appeared that the reading was off by a factor of 10. I have CHT working now, but it doesn't seem to be of much use to me. The CHT hits 180 relatively quickly, but the vehicle wont go to electric until FWT reaches 160.
     
  5. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    Yes, the error in the coding means the temp displayed will be one-tenth of the correct value. Changing the 8 to a 0 fixes that.

    CHT is what determines when the FEH can go EV. The CHT is measured with a physical sensor whereas the FWT is calculated from CHT and other things. The condition to go EV after start is a CHT of 190F. For 2009 it is apparently lower and for 2010 and up you can start off in EV.

    EDIT:

    Based on some observations with the CyT xgauge, the 2009 will go EV when CyT reaches 125F provided SOC is >42%, ECON is selected if A/C is on, etc. This is way better that the 190F for the first gens. With an EBH you could get to EV really quick in the 2009.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2012
  6. rfruth

    rfruth Well-Known Member

    Question - does the MMH (thus the FFH) PCM use the ISO format ?
     
  7. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    As far as I can tell, the Fusion and Milan Hybrid use the ISO 14229 format for all of the modules on the HSCAN bus. The CyT xgauge should work on those also.
     
  8. 08EscapeHybrid

    08EscapeHybrid Moderator

    I will have to pay attention... It seems that like clockwork, once FWT reaches 160, EV kicks in.
     
  9. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    Well, it looks like retrieving DTCs from 2009 and up will require a different method than I outlined previously, except for the TBCM and TCM in the 2009 and up FEHs and MMHs. For the Fusion and Milan, the old method won't work for any of the modules as far as I can tell. I have a need to figure this out in order to diagnose a 2009 Mariner Hybrid brake issue, so hopefully I can make some headway. It does appear that it will be more painful as the mode 0x19 DTC function in ISO 14229 is substantially different than the relatively simple mode 0x18 command in SAE J2190.

    EDIT:

    I have made some progress as I have used mode 0x19 to get the number of DTCs for the PCM and the ABS on a 2009. In this case there were 3 PCM DTCs and 7 ABS DTCs.

    TXD:07E0190108 for the PCM and 0760190108 for the ABS
    RXF:045905010000
    RXD: 3810
    MTH: 000100010000
    NAM:dtc

    This will work for 2009 PCM, ABS, OCS, RCM modules and all Fusion/Milan modules. Luckily the addresses for the modules haven't changed, with the exception of the TBCM for the Fusion/Milan.

    EDIT:

    I retrieved the first DTC from the PCM and the first DTC from the ABS module, although they are not too useful. P1000 for the PCM, which always happens when 12V is disconnected. Also U0452 from the ABS which is invalid data from Restraints Control Module. Even though the format for the DTCs was returned as ISO 15031, they were coded same as before, except for an extra byte of data. For example, the ABS DTC in raw form was C45229 with the final 29 representing the extra byte. From my other thread, C translates into U0 and the rest is essentially uncoded, 452.

    To retrieve DTCs you need to send a mode 0x19 command to the appropriate module, although using CMNDS will work for the PCM.

    For the PCM, enter the following in a CMNDS memory and hit SEND:

    1902FF
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2012
  10. bookemdanno

    bookemdanno Member

    This seemed like a more appropriate thread for my question.

    I just purchased a 2010 MMH (loving it so far, coming from a V8 Explorer) and after inputting some of the PIDs from your list into my SGII I noticed a couple of them didn't work. That's when I found this thread about the changes in the 2009 and later years. I got your updated CHT X-Gauge from above--works great.

    The old SoC X-Gauge still works fine on my 2010, as does TaV. I haven't tried LFT yet but intend to do that today. Any others you know of that need to be changed for 2009+?

    One that doesn't work which I would really be interested in taking a look at is the "% Power Sent to the Rear Wheels" since mine is 4WD. The PID I found is:

    TXD: 046122D128
    RXF: 046285D19628
    RXD: 3008
    Mth : 006400330000

    I found it in this post: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=342464&postcount=68

    But it doesn't seem to work (no value displayed). I double-checked all of the numbers and I have them put in right. Can you spot anything about it that looks wrong or needs modifying for 2009+?

    Or is that supposed to be the same X-Gauge as "Rear Wheel Clutch Duty Cycle %" on your spreadsheet? I notice that the TXD is similar but not identical. I didn't try yours yet--will do so later today. Mainly I just want to be able to "prove" that the 4WD is working as it should.

    Thanks again for keeping up with this chore for us guys/gals with the (evidently rarer) 2010-2012 FEHs. Much appreciated.
     
  11. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    I will check on the 4WD module for the 2009 and up. Perhaps it was changed to the ISO format as well in which case it will be different.

    Virtually any xgauge that starts with 07E022xxxx will be different for the 2009 and up as you found out with the cylinder head temp.
     
  12. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    In your TXD, do you actually have:

    046122D128 ?

    It should be:

    076122D128

    and the RXF should be:

    RXF: 046285D10628

    That is if the 4WD module is not ISO. A quick check is to try the following DTC xgauge:

    TXD: 0761220200
    RXF: 046205020600
    RXD: 3008
    MTH: 000100010000
    NAM: ABC

    If it displays a number, then the 4WD module is SAE and not ISO.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  13. bookemdanno

    bookemdanno Member

    I had programmed the info exactly how it was written in my post (which I copied verbatim from the other guy's post I linked right below it--guess he mistyped it).

    So I tried just changing the two digits you said were wrong (7 instead of 4 in the 2nd digit of the TXD and 0 instead of 9 in the 9th digit of the RXF) and still got no reading on that XGauge.

    I then edited it again to change that XGauge to the values you said to test with. When I did that I did get a 0 for the value but despite driving a bit in parking lot (F and R but no faster than 15mph) I never saw it show anything other than 0. It's my understanding with these vehicles that some power is always sent to the rear wheels. But I may be wrong about that. I know for absolute sure that I have a 4WD model (I have seen the rear differential with my eyes and the VIN decodes as a 4WD model).

    So I'm not sure if those results tell you anything or not.

    Should I try your "Rear Wheel Clutch Duty Cycle %" in your spreadsheet? Now that I know that 046 in the TXD was a typo and should have been 076 it's the exact same PID as in your spreadsheet. The difference is in the RXF and MTH. I don't know how critical those values are but on your spreadsheet here's the info:

    Rear Wheel Clutch Duty Cycle %
    TXD: 076122D128
    RXF: 0269446205D1
    RXD: 3008
    MTH: 07D000330000
    NAM: %RW

    Versus the RXF I was trying to use (with your correction): 046285D10628

    I guess it would help if I'd educate myself on exactly what RXF and RXD are. I know MTH is the "Math" the SGII uses to give you the value in the format you want (degC vs degF, meters vs km vs miles, etc.). I know TXD is the PID (basically) and NAM is the name.

    Oh also, I couldn't get LFT to display any value either. For that I was using (from your spreadsheet):

    TXD: 07E0220007
    RXF: 046285000607
    RXD: 3008
    MTH: 007D0010FC18
    NAM: LFT

    Thanks again for your help CarlD. If you can think of anything else for me to try I'll have lots of time this weekend to play around with it.
     
  14. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    Well, I am flummoxed by your results. If the test xgauge ABC returned a 0, that means that the 4WD model address is still 0761 and it is still SAE and not ISO. That xgauge actually looks for the number of stored or pending DTCs so I guesss it is good that your 4WD module has none. But if they didn't change the module addy or protocol I am surprised the corrected 4WD xgauge didn't show anything. Any xgauge that requests a PID from the 4WD module will have a TXD of the form:

    TXD: 076122xxxx


    As far as LTFT as a mode 0x22 DID from the PCM, I am looking into that. You could always use the mode 0x01 PID for this.

    TXD: 07E00107
    RXF: 044185070000
    RXD: 2808
    MTH: 007D0010FC18
    NAM: LF1


    The %RW xgauge should work, but I am wondering if it will....
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  15. bookemdanno

    bookemdanno Member

    OK, happy to report the %RW X-gauge from your spreadsheet works just fine. If I had just used that from the beginning rather than relying on (evidently bad) info from that other guy's post I wouldn't have ended up wasting your time here. Sorry about that CarlD.

    Except now I just saw your post here: http://www.cleanmpg.com/forums/showpost.php?p=70492&postcount=58 where you stated that the AWD X-gauge doesn't work. Is that outdated info or were you speaking of a different X-gauge?

    I tried the (0x01) LF1 XGauge you posted. How long should it take to display something? I took the car on a (very) short drive around the block and never saw a value show up for it, but maybe it needs something a bit longer. I've got a 1hour commute today so will check and see what it shows here this morning.

    Any other X-Gauges you would recommend my keeping an eye on? For the four spots on the display I think I'm going to display SoC, CyT, TAV and LFT (if I can get it working... if not then maybe instantaneous MPG).

    Thanks a million CarlD.
     
  16. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    That 6 year post about the AWD gauge is not relevant. I was shooting blind back then.

    The LFT xgauge I posted using the mode 0x01 command should work. It should have a reading right away. If it is blank you probably have a typo somewhere.

    My source at Ford dried up a couple of years ago so now I pretty much have to reverse engineer stuff.
     
  17. bookemdanno

    bookemdanno Member

    Right you are Carl. Stupidly I had selected LFT and not LF1 (duhhhh). Once I chose LF1 I got values ranging from 2.9 to 5.7. I've yet to figure out exactly what I should be looking for on that xgauge but I know I've been switching back and forth between E0 and E10 gasoline (trying to figure out if E0 is worth the price premium) so I think the computer (Long Term Fuel Maps?) is probably confused.

    I know I read a post from GaryG saying that older FEHs had more of a mileage hit from E10 gasoline than the newer (2009+?) ones. Since there is only one station around here selling pure gas and the price is about 20 cents higher than E10 I'm guessing I'll just resort to using E10 and deal with the mileage penalty.

    Is there a primer somewhere on what I should be keeping an eye on for the Long Term Fuel Trim readout? I know it has something to do with whether the oxygen sensors are saying to run richer or leaner on fuel (so a larger positive number would mean it's using more fuel than the map suggests and a larger negative number would mean it's using less?)

    Anyway, I've got lots more to learn. But thanks for getting me squared away on the X-gauges CarlD.
     

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