The EV Experience: Is Range Anxiety Real?

Discussion in 'General' started by jmarietucker, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. jmarietucker

    jmarietucker New Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 11, 2011
  2. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    You know what? I'm already plugging in my car every night. It's a 12V trickle charger, but I still have to do the plug-in step. It's really not a big deal.
  3. FXSTi

    FXSTi Well-Known Member

    I'm not the target market for EV vehicles. I drive about 55 miles on each leg of my commute, and even my short trips are close to 30 miles round trip. I think an EV would need around a 200 mile range in the winter and in the dark before I could consider it. I think we are still a long way off.

  4. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    You might be better off with a diesel..
  5. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Well-Known Member

    My commute is about 10 miles one-way, so I'd be fine with it in general, I think. The problem wouldn't be day-to-day stuff -- my biggest fear would be unexpectedly driving out/running some errands after work, getting home, then forgetting to plug it in at night, and finding out the next day that I didn't have enough charge to get to work. (Because stuff like this happens, especially when you're really busy at work...)
  6. msirach

    msirach Well-Known Member

  7. elem

    elem Well-Known Member


    If you are anxious about range, you will probably pay attention to the range remaining information. Even if you still forgot, 10mile charge based on 200wh/m is 18minutes at 6.6kW at 240V and 120V 10mile charge is 36 minutes. Of course if there was a 50kW DC charger somewhere on your route it is 2min 40s.

    Best of luck
  8. EdwinTheMagnificent

    EdwinTheMagnificent Legend In His Mind

    I don't get the "range anxiety" issue. My gasoline car has a limited range,also. But it has this amazing device called a "fuel gauge". If I refer to this gauge every once in a while , I know how many more miles I can go. A car like the Nissan Leaf would get me to work and back for three days on one charge (90 miles ). I also have an "okay" ICE car for longer trips. People may cry "range anxiety", but I think the real issue for many consumers is "why should I pay $32K (or $25K) for a car that is only so big/so fast/so cool ?" $25K gets you lots of nice ICE cars (Prius,TDI,Insight,Elantra) and people can point to their beloved 40 or 50MPG highway rating and say "I'm doing my part !" And they really think they are. Sorry about the rant,I'm a little agitated today. Going on a 60 km bike ride now, that should quiet those voices in my head for a few hours.
  9. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

    I think the people that don't do a good enough job of watching the gauge know that if they screw up in this car, it won't be as simple as a little walk to a gas station to bring back a can of gas. For those of us who actually use the fuel gauge, range anxiety is not an issue.
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    The Accord's low fuel lights up at 67 to 69 miles (EPA number's, not mine ;)). The LEAF from a full charge gives us 73 miles (EPA number's, not ours :rolleyes:).

    If driving with a low fuel light on does not bother you, Range anxiety will not bother you.

  11. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

    I have heard of a certain blue Prius that went nearly 2 weeks on a flashing pip.;):D
  12. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Well-Known Member

    Low fuel light? I usually fill up when I see the gauge reach 1/2 to 1/4 tank!
  13. Nevyn

    Nevyn Well-Known Member

    Why is it that the general thought process of the population feels that EVs have to be driven to a dead battery before being recharged, yet they have no trouble doing a "partial fill" on a gas powered vehicle?

    I'm not saying that you guys feel that way. I merely quoted you both to illustrate the point. The media and populace cry and boo over EVs taking HOURS to charge. Perhaps this is done deliberately to steer attention away from the fact that if you only need to put a "quarter tank" in an EV, it'll take as little as 2 hours.

    Who doesn't sleep for at LEAST that long every night?

    I'm hoping that over time this general perception shifts more towards partial charges and away from the whole "Gotta use the whole thing before filling up" mentality.
  14. msirach

    msirach Well-Known Member

    When I went to bed at 10:00 am this morning, I had been awake 27 hours. :D I got up at 3:30pm and headed back to work.
  15. 2RR2NV

    2RR2NV Ultimate Newbie

    an EV would be great for me, but the price tag.... EEEKKK GADS!!!!! not only no, but HE&^ no!! if they had one for the same price as my Elantra or maybe at least UNDER 20k, i'd take it. i only drive 15 miles to work 1-way.
  16. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Well-Known Member

    Actually, this brings up another question: I have heard with certain types of batteries, discharging completely reduces battery longevity. With other types, it is recommended to periodically discharge completely then completely recharge. What is the general recommendation for the sorts of batteries we're seeing in EV's.
  17. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    For lithium batteries generally the only thing you gain from a larger discharge is better calibration of the remaining capacity measurement device (SoC). If you don't do it for a while the car's electronics become increasingly less accurate in their estimates.

    Shallow discharges for lithium packs will pay back large dividends in longevity -- the number of cycles possible before total capacity drops to 80% of new rating is dependent upon the depth of discharge. Most measures are based on an 80% depth of discharge. If you limit to even an average of 70% depth of discharge it isn't uncommon to tack on another 30% or more cycles required before hitting that benchmark 80% of original capacity. If you only drive short trips and average something like 30% depth of discharge (charging overnight to keep those discharges shallow) use related wear becomes laughably negligible. Age related deterioration is a different matter (everything has a shelf life), but data so far indicates that use related wear is a bigger factor. We won't know for sure until these vehicles have been on the roads for 10yrs or so, but I'm ready to take the leap right now based on what I've seen so far.
  18. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    These new batteries, lithium-ion, as used in the Volt, Leaf, iMiev, Focus and so on prefer to be partially charged at all times.. its not a big issue since they all use sophisticated computers to self-manage their health, the battery packs are too expensive to do otherwise. Generally with lithium-ion you dont want to keep them on the charger and at 100% all the time, you will get a few more years out of them if kept partially charged.. exactly the opposite of the traditional lead-acid starting battery used in most cars.

    GM goes to the extreme of never letting you charge the Volt's battery to its maximum. The Leaf and Tesla Roadster give you the option of charging to 100%, but they warn you not to abuse it too much..

    Discharging completely will kill most batteries, none of the big manufacturers will let you do that.
  19. OriEri

    OriEri David

    I have two co-workers driving Leafs. Each has roughly a 50 mile commute each way. They count on being able to charge up during work to make it home but often can't get a full recharge during the work day. I spoke with one who has a story of having to stop at a dealership on her route for a while to get a charge. Yes, you can make it work, but you can't drive it like a regular car that has 300-500 miles on a tank and lots of places to fuel up. You don't really have to plan ahead much at all with a gas or diesel(*)

    You have to plan more with a short range electric vehicle than do you with a gas powered car. That is the definition of range anxiety.

    (*) I have been running biodiesel almost exclusively the last 7 months. It is even harder to find than a 240 or 480V charging station, but I also have a much better range so the situation is not so dissimilar for me, except I only have to start planning once every week or so and I can put in a few gallons of stinky mineral diesel if I have to.
  20. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    50mi each way? Probably highway as well? That's daring of them! My round trip for work amounts to a max of 30.4mi and can be as low as 25.8mi (shortest route is the highway).

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