CleanMPG Reviews the 2011 Kia Optima Hybrid

Discussion in 'Reviews' started by xcel, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG]A second go around with the Korean Hybrid Drivetrain should prove to be just as interesting as the first.

    [fimg=left]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2011_Kia_Optima_Hybrid3.jpg[/fimg]Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG - July 19, 2011

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid - $26,500 to start and 37 mpgUS combined on the EPA make it a worthy competitor to whatever is currently sitting in your drive.

    With any first drive of a given manufacturers product, it is probably best to set the table with some of the company’s history. After all, Kia is one of the most successful companies in the automobile business as of late and is it not about time we find out why?

    Kia from a CleanMPG perspective was barely on the radar screen up until two years ago. The company's products have always provided a great value story of course but on the fuel efficiency front, we were left wondering why they left so much on the table. That was about to change.

    At last year’s 2010 NYIAS, Kia introduced to the North American Auto Show going press and public a car. Not just any car but a car that was a true competitor to anything in the mid-sized class. It offered an all-new exciting interior/exterior design, that latest features and amenities, latest safety features, and what was being rumored was a new focus on fuel efficiency. In addition, they announced a hybrid version which made me really sit up and take notice!

    Kia History

    From Bicycle parts manufacturer to world class automobile manufacturer in two generations.

    The early years: In 1944, Kia is founded as a manufacturer of steel tubing and bicycle parts. 7-years later, the company began to produce Korea’s first native built bicycle. In 1957, Kia’s first Korean motor scooter, the C-100 begins production. 5-years after that, Kia officially began producing automobiles with the production of Korea’s first truck.

    In 1991, Kia announced plans to enter U.S. marketplace with their Sephia compact sedan, followed by a sport-utility vehicle called the Sportage. The following year, Kia Motors America is incorporated as the sales, marketing and service arm for Kia Motors Corporation in the United States.

    Sales Expansion

    1994: Kia achieved annual US sales of just 12,163 vehicles. Within a year, Kia celebrated its first anniversary in the United States with its 100th dealer opening. Annual sales reach 24,740.

    1996: Kia sells its 50,000th vehicle in the United States with annual sales now totaling 36,274 vehicles.

    1997: Kia sells its 100,000th vehicle in the United States with annual sales of 55,325 vehicles.

    1999: Annual sales: 82,893 vehicles.

    2000: Kia sells its 500,000th vehicle in the United States .

    2001: The Sedona minivan and Rio5 sub-compact hatch are launched in the U.S. while annual sales reach 223,727 vehicles.

    2002: Kia sells its 750,000th vehicle in the United States with annual sales reaching 237,345 vehicles.

    2003: Kia sells its 1,000,000th vehicle in the United States.

    2004: Kia achieves its 10th consecutive year of record sales with annual sales of 270,055 vehicles.

    2005: Kia launches its new global brand strategy “The Power to Surprise” and achieves a US annual sales total of 275,851 vehicles.

    2006: Kia announces plans to open its first U.S. manufacturing plant in West Point, Ga. where production is planned to begin in 2009.

    2008: Kia achieved its 14th consecutive year of record sales in 2007 with 305,473 vehicles sold. In May, Kia celebrated its best sales month ever with record April sales of 30,066 vehicles.

    2009: Kia announced the 2011 Sorento CUV will be the first vehicle built at its brand new West Point, GA manufacturing facility. One month later, Kia achieves all-time record monthly sales of 40,198 in August.

    2010: On February 26, Kia Motors Manufacturing Georgia celebrates its official Grand Opening. One month later, it celebrates its three millionth vehicle sold in the United States.

    2011: In January, Kia reports all-time record sales with 356,268 vehicles sold.

    And the sales continued to climb with 2011 monthly sales record after record being broken:
    Meet the Kia Optima Hybrid

    Introduced at the 2010 Los Angeles Auto Show last fall, it was a hybrid with a desirable exterior, roomy interior, and a 40 mpg highway rating that piqued our interest.

    Just like its Hyundai Sonata Hybrid cousin, the 2011 Optima Hybrid uses a full parallel hybrid system with full-electric drive mode at speeds far surpassing the stated 62 mpg spec. And like all hybrids, we expect it to perform with hybrid like fuel economy in all aspects of the drive which we will hope to discover over the next 6 days.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Specifications

    The 2011 Kia Optima Hybrid is priced to start at $26,500 and is available in only one trim. A Hybrid Premium Technology Package loads up the Optima Hybrid with additional features including NAVI w/ backup camera and SiriusXM NavTraffic, premium sound, sunroof, HID’s, heated and cooled front seats and heated rear seats to name a few.

    Complete specifications including standard and optional equipment can be found on the 2011 Kia Optima Hybrid - Specifications page.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Exterior

    Unlike the Sonata Hybrid where the grille is of a completely different design than the Sonata and Sonata Turbo, the all-new Optima Hybrid integrates the techy themed and KIA signature bold tabbed grille surrounded by projector headlamps similar to that fitted to the 11 Optima, 11 Optima Turbo, 11 Sportage and upcoming 12 Rio. Sticking with a winner is not a bad thing, right ;)

    The hood is emphasized with very soft body following creases into the front headlights. Another very non-distinct character line runs from the top of the headlights back to the rear taillights.

    [​IMG]
    Enticing lower body side detail.​

    Where the side profile gets exciting is the lower body’s deep and multiple angle horizontal cutouts and uniquely flat (read aerodynamic) but stylish 16” alloy wheels spicing up the Optima nicely.

    The modern coupe like sedan silhouette will welcome its owner for years to come.

    A small construction detail that seems a bit out of place is the roof to body side weld seam that is covered with old school rubber seals running the length of the roof on both sides.

    To the rear, drooping LEDs taillights accentuate the rear with a nicely shaped trunk lid edge spoiler and low lift over height trunk opening making the everyday utility of the Optima useful for all members of the family driving it.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Interior

    The all-new Optima Hybrids interior instrument cluster provides a modern but cluttered appearance with too many “Hybrid” centric displays including an Eco Level leaves and flowers display. After a few days, even the energy flow displays are all but passé which when displayed, remove the far more important a and iFCDs.

    [​IMG]
    Left side instrument cluster is a touch “Busy”​

    Two areas in which the Optima Hybrid shines is the 10-way electric adjustability (includes lumbar support) for a great fit and control stalks.

    Driver Ergonomics - With the standard tilt and telescopic wheel and multi-electrically adjustable seats, you would be hard pressed not to find a comfortable seating position. With essentially no miles, longer drive seat comfort will have to be evaluated over the coming days.

    The control stalks that are not only easy to understand and use upon first touch, they provide as good if not better tactile feedback than Toyota’s world class stalk controls. If the Domestics and European’s ever needed help with interior stalk control feel and action, they could learn a thing or two from Kia.

    The Stereo system sounds good and with the ability to control your iPod/iPhone/Smartphone when USB connected to the car via Microsoft’s UVO system, it is more than acceptable. When setting presets for AM/FM and Sirius, I felt the standard 4” (I think its 4”) display to be a bit small for a car of this class and price point. We are evaluating the base hybrid without Hybrid Premium Technology Package and its 7” high resolution NAVI and radio control function screen.

    I will hold off on further impressions until I place some miles behind the wheel.

    The trunk? I have not even opened it yet but will provide more detail later today.

    Besides the small 4” screen, the only other criticism is that the plastics appear somewhat incongruous. There is a smooth plastic surround butting up against coarse grained dash plastics and from the cloth door inserts, you move to hard plastics of two different colors. The A-Pillar interior cover is plastic vs. cloth that some higher end competitors are now using although this is a very minor point.

    A busy but comfortable interior space has so far presented itself and I am very much looking forward to placing some miles on it over the next few days.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Drivetrain

    Li-Po Battery Tech

    The lithium polymers (Li-PO) cells used in the Optima Hybrid were developed by LG Chem using a manganese spinel chemistry that has much lower expansion rates than standard Li-Ion chemistries used in other automobile applications and are thus able to go through tens of thousands of charge cycles without having to use a heavier, liquid cooling system.

    The Li-Po chemistry also has less self-discharge and will hold a charge 25 percent longer than a NiMH battery common in today’s full hybrids from competing manufacturers.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Drivetrain Layout

    The Optima Hybrid drivetrain is configured with a Transmission-Mounted-Electric-Drive (TMED) layout where the 40 HP motor is separated from the transmission.

    6-speed Automatic - The Kia Optima Hybrid uses a slightly modified "conventional" automatic transmission with the addition of an external, electrically driven oil pump to provide the hydraulic fluid pressure needed to keep the clutches engaged when the Optima Hybrid is in idle stop mode.

    Traction Motor and Clutch - The Optima Hybrid’s traction motor is hard-coupled to the input of the transmission and completely replaces the torque converter. A multi-disc clutch pack sits within the inner circumference of the traction motor and is used to de-couple the motor from the 2.4L I4 for idle stop and electric driving mode.

    Hybrid Starter/Generator - The Hybrid-Starter-Generator (HSG) is a 8.5 kW starter motor-generator that is belt-driven off the engine operating at the same 270 volts as the electric traction motor and the Li-Po battery. Its purpose is only to start the engine and charge the hybrid battery when SoC is below a given threshold. Maintenance note: HSG belt changes are scheduled at 60,000 mile intervals.

    12V DC - A low-voltage DC to DC converter steps down the 270 volt output of the Li-Po battery down to 12 volts needed to charge the standard Pb-Acid battery and power all of the vehicle accessory systems.

    Regenerative Braking - “When braking is necessary”, energy recovery and storage in the included Li-Po traction battery for later use is a plus.

    Electric Power Assisted Steering and A/C - The 2011 Optima Hybrid like all 2011 Optima’s uses an Electric Power Assist Steering (EPAS) system that provides boost only when it is needed. This reduces the overall parasitic load compared to an engine driven hydraulic assist. Because the EPAS is independent of the engine it also provides assistance when the engine is not running such as during idle stop or electric drive mode.

    The Optima hybrid also features an electrically driven A/C compressor so that climate control can be maintained during engine off driving. The electrically driven A/C compressor allows for more precise on-demand control reducing the overall load on the powertrain which lowers fuel consumption.

    Atkinsonized 2.4L Engine - Like most full hybrids to date, an Atkinson cycle was incorporated into the 2.4L engine. The Atkinson cycle’s reduces pumping losses and improves overall thermodynamic efficiency.

    Thermal Management - The Optima Hybrid features two independent liquid cooling circuits with a standard high temperature circuit used to manage engine temperatures at up to 190 degrees Fahrenheit and provide passenger compartment heating needs.

    A second low temperature cooling circuit is incorporated to manage the temperature of the hybrid starter-generator and the power electronics. The low temperature circuit utilizes an electric pump to circulate the coolant along with a separate heat exchanger to keep the electronics between 86-95 degrees Fahrenheit.

    Ride and handling impressions and Fuel Economy details will be coming shortly ;)

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Safety

    The 2011 Kia Optima arrives with the following active and passive safety HW as standard equipment including front, side and side curtain airbags, front active headrests, side-impact door beams, height-adjustable front seatbelts with pre-tensioners, three-point seatbelts for all seating positions, Lower Anchors and Tethers for Children (LATCH) and a Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS). Four-wheel antilock brakes (ABS), Electronic Stability Control (ESC), a Traction Control System (TCS), a Brake Assist System (BAS) and Hill Assist Control (HAC).

    The KIA Optima has been rated as a NHTSA 5-Star performer, the highest score achievable on the toughest crash tests in the world. For 2012, the Kia Optima Hybrid was just awarded the same distinction with a perfect across the board 5-star crash test ratings for frontal, side, rollover and overall crash test scores. Similar, the IIHS has awarded the 2011 Kia Optima a “Top Safety Pick” with a perfect score of Good across the board including Head Restraint geometry.

    2011 Kia Optima – IIHS Top Safety Pick

    [​IMG]

    2012 Kia Optima Hybrid – NHTSA 5-Star Crash Test Rating

    [​IMG]

    Great structural design leads to great scores and in the case of an accident, would you want to be in anything less?

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid - Fuel Economy Results

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid – aFCD calibration drive

    With no wind to a 5-mph side/rear quarter tail wind and temps from 74 to 80 degrees, it was a perfect night/early morning to do a calibration drive. It was raining lightly for about 1/3 of the distance.

    The 76.9 miles displayed is actually 79.284 miles per our 3.1% under report calibration drive the other night. Google showed the distance at 78.7 miles but does not have the temporary Interstate construction mapped through Milwaukee yet.

    With 71.3 mpg displayed after 76.9 miles displayed, we come up with actuals of 79.284 miles/1.187 gallons = 66.794 mpgUS or an ~ 6.32% over report vs. actual. That is a little much.

    [​IMG]

    Below are the Steady State CC mpg averages with the determined offset:

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Calibrated Steady State FE Results

    Column1Column2Column3
    mphmpgUS displayed average ((NB+SB)/2)mpgUS Acutal
    50 mph59.9 mpgUS56.2
    55 mph55.2 mpgUS51.7
    60 mph48.9 mpgUS45.8
    65 mph41.8 mpgUS39.0


    [​IMG]

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Preliminary Conclusions

    We will be providing more of that detail as the next few days wear on but as of now, it looks good and feels very comfortable…

    [​IMG]
    The Kia Optima Hybrid taking in the final glow of a warm IL summer evening.​
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  2. fusion210

    fusion210 Well-Known Member

    I for one would love to see another go at a coast to coast run!
     
  3. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    A lot of effort to drive 3,000 miles to say "Yes, it's like the Sonata".
     
  4. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Had a chance to do a few walk arounds of the Optima Hybrid this evening. The proximity key lights the door as you walk up to the car, not touch the handle or open a door. Pretty cool.

    Hankook tires are spec’ed at 26.5” diameter and 44 psi max sidewall so the 1,950 RPM at 60 mph calc for the 16’s should be very close.

    Individual gaps on a given body panel next to another panel appear to be very uniform but from gap to gap on different panels, they are all over the place.

    Wayne
     
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    First drive…

    Odometer calibrations shows the Kia Optima Hybrid’s Trip A/B/Odo underreporting distance by 3.2% as the calibrated 16.3 miles traveled from Point to Point revealed just 15.8 miles displayed on Trip A/B. The 2011 Sonata Hybrid proved to have a 3.1% under reporting Trip A/B/Odometer as well so there is definitely some consistency here.

    With that out of the way, she has a slight and I mean very slight surge occurring under EV while in first and between first and second gear. Just like the Sonata Hybrid, the Kia Optima P&G’s the Li-Po fantastically. From the SoC display, 13 of 16-bars and the ICE shuts down, 7 of 16 bars and the ICE starts up again.

    The first calibration drive was in the middle of the night with temps in the mid-70’s and 80 + % humidity as I was caught in a quick thunderstorm while out. An elevation rise of 150’ and about what I would have expected for a City/Country/State highway route with 5 full stop stop signs and 7 lights of which I was only stopped by 2 Reds. A top speed of 55 mph and overall average of ~ 25 mph according to the avg. speed display.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid – First drive

    [​IMG]

    Like the Sonata Hybrid, I suspect after taking the odometer offset into account, we will see an ~ .5 mpg under report of the aFCD vs. actual so we will have to perform a full calibration drive later on this week.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011
  6. landongolf

    landongolf Active Member

    Wanye thanks for your report, I am reading with baited breath to see if I should buy a Optima EX fully loaded or the basic Hybrid, they are about the same cost.....I am even considering a 2012 honda Civic Ex...... I worry about reliability and resale value with a kia, any thoughts? .....Keep up the great reporting Thanks Jack :Banane33:
     
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    A few pics before I head out again.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid

    [​IMG]
    Passenger Side Profile

    [​IMG]
    Drivers Side Rear – This angle has some Nissan Altima and Z in it to me?

    [​IMG]
    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Taillight detail. Notice the Kia license plate bracket slogan ;)

    Jack, resale of the Kia/Hyundai contingent is going to be better than in the past simply because they build better cars today and the new styling is going to keep them fresh and in demand for years to come. Whether that holds true at Trade-in time is yet to be seen but right now, the KIA Optima is probably Kia’s best in terms of expected resale 3 to 5-years down the line.

    I thought I posted a story on mid-size class residuals a few months ago and the Optima/Sonata has risen almost to the point of an Accord/Camry. Not quite but getting there.

    Wayne
     
  8. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I have some steady state numbers for the 2011 Kia Optima Hybrid but it was not easy getting them.

    Because of the way the Optima Hybrid drivetrain works (P&G’ing the Li-Po), you have to reset the aFCD at a given elevation and at a time when either you are at the top of the SoC range (10 of 12 bars) and she transitions to EV or at the bottom (7 of 12 bars) and she transitions to ICE-On. All the while hoping to catch an elevation that is +/- 10 to 20’ from the reset point. I collected the data driving “dumb” with CC set at 50, 55 and 60-mph.

    Distance traveled to allow a settling of the aFCD ino an average was ~ 12.5 miles per data point.

    Temperatures ranged from 87 to 89 degrees F with winds out of the south at 10 to 15 mph. With the tail winds when northbound and headwinds when south, I averaged the two to come up with the following:

    50 mph - 59.95 mpgUS
    55 mph - 55.2 mpgUS
    60 mph - 48.90 mpgUS

    During this time, the windows were closed and I was using 3 of 8 bars of ventilation fan (no A/C).

    After those results, I was heading back towards home with the 10 to 15 mph headwind for ~ 15-miles and the same as a side wind for about 5 miles. There was a net elevation descent of approximately 110’ at the stop point.


    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid

    [​IMG]
    72.5 mpg over 20 miles.​

    Maybe tomorrow night is when we will perform the top off to top off, aFCD calibration drive. Hopefully with a little less wind and a little cooler temperatures too?

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  9. RichXKU

    RichXKU Mr. Forced Regen

    Good numbers :thumbs_up:
     
  10. landongolf

    landongolf Active Member

    Wanye those are great numbers, but what would I get driving without Hypermiling? An Estimate, with a light foot? Thanks Jack
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Jack:

    The Steady State numbers posted above are completed by setting cruise control on the fly while out on the Interstate and letting the Optima Hybrid do its thing. The data posted is what was displayed and I am essentially taken out of the loop.

    There will be a warm up and fuel economy hit to get up to speed knocking some more off of those as well.

    For the 72.5 mpg segment, I reset from the bottom of the SoC band just as the engine ramped on to take into account the rolling start as well.

    In addition, I ran A/C from the stop and drove another 16.3 miles with an elevation increase of ~ 120'. When I got home, the aFCD was down to 61.0 mpg.

    Doing the reverse calcs, 20.0 miles/72.5 mpg = .276 gal and 36.3 miles/61.0 mpg = .595 gal. To cover that last 16.3 miles took .319 gal. or 51.1 mpg w/ A/C on a city/country and State Highway route.

    RPM calc’s at 60 mph of 2015 RPM’s actual was close to the calculated 1,950 per the SG-II.

    And about the tach. If you look closely at the display pics above, you will see it’s a very small resolution arc on the left side of the center display. Even being that small, it reads approximately 15% more than actual RPM.

    Using the Garmin, the OEM speedometer displays approximately 1 mph over actual at 60 mph.

    The iFCD is also a mess as it can be pegged even while accelerating softly when the SG-II is pointing out a more normal 15 to 25 mpg. While the SG-II is not calibrated (it will end up with a 15% or so offset), the aFCD was falling quickly from let’s say 40.x mpg while the iFCD was pegged at 50 mpg immediately after a rest and taking off from dead cold which this week means high 80’s to mid-90 degree temps.

    The OEM iFCD just like in the Sonata Hybrid does not match reality at any time the engine is running which is very unfortunate.

    Warm-up. Unlike the other full hybrids, when the Optima runs for warm-up, it does not continually run if the engine is not needed. The Prius is the worst offender of this with a display saying the ICE is off even when its roaring away at 1,250 + RPM while sitting at a light waiting for its first idle stop to occur. The FFH is similar during that warm-up. The Optima Hybrid’s ICE simply stops and you go into EV mode without any raucous even though you coolant temps have not yet reached a level anywhere close to CAT light off.

    Ride and Handling. I have not performed the Emergency maneuvers yet but we will do that later today.

    The Optima Hybrid has a very strong and I can almost bet its forced by the EPS “On center” feel. While she will wonder if you are not paying attention, to move off center takes a little more torque so unlike the Elantra, this EPS is dialed in relatively well.

    Cornering into my small curb entry way test section yields a bottom of the outside rear wheel and noise intrusion over and above most of the mid-size’s we have driven in the past. Noise on the Interstate is about what can be expected. A little louder than most due to its lighter weight with less sound insulation.

    Wayne
     
  12. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Actually, my wife's FFH will shut the engine off at stops even if it is cold and the HVAC is off -- it just takes a little longer. If you shift to N, the RPM will drop even in warm up mode. Additionally, you can actually enter EV mode when cold if you are under 15mph. All this makes it very nice to warm up with slow speed neighborhood driving. It appears that mode is lost if you exceed 15mph with the engine running when cold, but I've been able to re-enter it after stopping long enough (before the engine is fully warmed).
     
  13. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    You know, I prefer the styling on this one over the Sonata.. not so overdone..

    Wayne, a quick comparison between the new Passat Diesel and the Optima.. what mpg you think the VW can do?

    The reason they dont use liquid cooling is that these cells dont need it, they dont get hot in use due to their very low internal resistance. Battery manufacturers can fine tune the formula for each application.
     
  14. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Herm:

    You sure picked out the right “competitor” to go head to head with ;)

    Here is my take on the 11 Optima Hybrid vs. 12 Passat with limited miles in either.

    Ride and Handling, fit and finish and general aesthetics go to the Passat. Its interior and exterior build quality from the gaps to the various accentuated seams is possibly the best I have ever seen on a car. I still have not posted a pic of the door seals on the 12 Passat and when you see it, you will know it is German Engineered to the nth degree and far beyond what anyone is offering in the mid-sized, mid-priced class.

    The 12 Passat’s front end and the rear C-Pillar needs some punch however as both are a bit understated by comparison to the Optima and especially the Sonata and Sonata Hybrids front intakes and rear corner silhouettes. Around to the rear, I think the German’s have a leg up as the Optima’s “lines” do not seem to go anywhere but meander around looking for a place to end?

    Controls ease of use, more modern instrument cluster and City FE easily goes to the Optima Hybrid. In addition, the Optima’s UVO is at least a generation ahead of the Passat in terms of infotainment capability and the modern LCD based dash is “pretty”. Radio sound however easily goes to the Passat. I was driving Fender equipped 12 Passat’s between Chattanooga and Nashville and they are night and day above the Optima’s standard system in terms of sound quality. The Optima’s base radio includes that very small display for infotainment control and rear view camera, and its audio output is no better than can be found in any modern compact imho. Accuracy of the displays will surely go to the Passat as German's are usually pretty strict when it comes to a given display matching an actual by comparison to the tach and iFCD in the Optima Hybrid. ScanGauge to the rescue once again.

    Regarding Suburban FE, it is a pickem for us but for the average driver, the Optima hybrid will walk away with the prize due to Start/Stop and P&G’ing the Li-Po automatically.

    Highway FE… I am going to guess that the 12 Passat can take down the 11 Optima but I would have to go advanced to do it. The Optima’s 72.5 mpg on a 75% highway, 25% country drive into a headwind last night is a really big number and from the Sonata Hybrid drive, that number is likely underreporting a small amount due to the odometer under report. We will have to wait and see on this.

    The VW TDI is an impressive engine but the Optima Hybrid’s drivetrain is better prepared to meet the needs of the average driver with a mix of stop and crawl and the open road. The Optima Hybrid is an open road car just like the Sonata Hybrid due to the low speed missteps of ICE-on and off algorithms so neither can compete against a Prius or FFH. Against the 12 Passat, the TDI will be idling away while the Optima is simply smiling waiting for the next pedal input to begin moving without consuming fuel. Out on the open road, the Optima’s seamless transitions between engine and pack propulsion are a thing to behold.

    Reliability wise, both companies are leaving behind a dark period in their respective history’s and from what I can tell, both have made tremendous strides to pull themselves up into the top tier.

    Resale wise, it is tough to beat the resale of a TDI anything.

    Load/Cargo carrying… You have to see a 12 VW Passat’s trunk to believe it. It reminds me of an old Caprice with a low lift over height. It is massive. The Optima Hybrid’s usable trunk space is hampered by the Li-Po battery in the back. In addition, the Passat's hinges are covered and include a gas suspension piece to open and hold the trunk open. Much better thought out and executed than most of its competitors in the mid-size class.

    So what should you own?

    For the average driver, nothing beats a highway oriented hybrid drivetrain and by P&G’ing the Li-Po, The Korean’s have a step up on even the best turbo-diesels due to the average drivers daily mix of stop and crawl and open road driving. In addition, if you have ever filled up at a diesel pump, you will discover a negative to the clean diesel phenomenon. The TDI’s fuel economy and emissions are top notch but the pumps are usually filthy because diesel does not evaporate which leaves an oily residue on the handles of most pumps I have filled at.

    What would be in my drive?

    Either the 12 Passat with a stick or an Optima/Sonata non-hybrid (also with a stick) only because I am going to go advanced at the appropriate time to bring about hybrid like fuel economy even in and out of suburbia. The value proposition of an Optima LX/Sonata GLS with a stick cannot be matched so that is why it deserves more than just a mention here.

    I am also mostly a stick and highway driver so the maximum capabilities of the Passat TDI and Optima Hybrid are more closely matched to my own driving cycles. The Passat feels more solid and planted from the R&H standpoint. In addition, it does not incorporate the “synthesized” feel of the hybrid drivetrain from the touch of the brakes, feel of the “go” pedal and through the wheel. VW’s attention to detail in the Passat is also step above the entire mid-sized class and I mean every manufacturer! I also like turbo diesels consistent performance vs. the Optima Hybrid’s sometimes guessing as to what to do at an given instant when on a city loop even though it is much stronger from a fuel economy perspective than the Passat TDI in that realm.

    If I were in stop and crawls for hours each week, the Optima Hybrid would be in my drive as its Hybridized AT is going to place a lot less of burden on my right hand and left foot then the TDI with a stick. The TDI with the 6-speed DSG? It is a great AT but I am one of the last of a generation that simply does not like AT’s unless they are hybridized to improve their fuel economy immensely. VW’s hybridized AT’s (see the 11 Touareg Hybrid write-up) just like Hyundai/Kia Hybridized AT’s are fantastic but VW is not mating their Hybridized AT to the fuel saving TDI’s due to cost unfortunately.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2011
  15. landongolf

    landongolf Active Member

    Wayne, thanks so much for you detailed response. I gather you think a Kia Optima Hybrid is by far a better car than an AT kia Optima in an area like Washingiotn D.C, with its stop and go traffic. I guess I will need to give the moonroof, nav and upgraded stereo, and most of all the cooled seated for the standard optima hybrid.....The fully equiped hybrid is out of my price range. Bot are excellent cars.....Again Wayne thanks so much for all of your help, Jack :Banane17:
     
  16. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Some more pics before I head out again this evening.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid

    [​IMG]
    The working end. Excellent ergonomics other than too small of a rear view camera/Audio/Phone and setup screen.

    [​IMG]
    Notice the Li-Po battery storage up front and the uncovered trunk hinges.​

    Jack, I have driven the Washington DC Beltway just 5 time’s, one in an 09 HCH-II, twice in a 10 FFH, once on a 10 BMW R1200 GS and once in an 11 F-150 w/ EcoBoost. All at varying times of the day and night and even on weekends.

    My suggestion if fuel is a concern which I hope it is since you are here is consider the Optima Hybrid over the EX with its AT. The Optima EX is going to eat you alive at the pump when trying to traverse the daily Washington DC Beltway Stop and Crawl. The Optima Hybrid will be far less painful at the pump and although it is a lot more expensive up front, it is loaded with amenities that you will surely enjoy.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 22, 2011
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    I finished the tank calibration up early this morning with a drive from Gurnee, IL to Fredonia, WI.

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid – aFCD calibration drive

    [​IMG]
    Topped off at a Shell in Gurnee, IL before heading north.

    [​IMG]
    Mobil in Fredonia, WI.

    [​IMG]
    Topped off in Fredonia, WI with 1.187 gallons consumed.​

    We had a number of storms heading this way so I headed out just before they hit Northern, IL. With no wind to a 5-mph side/rear quarter tail wind and temps from 74 to 80 degrees, it was a perfect night/early morning to do a calibration drive. It was raining lightly for about 1/3 of the drive.

    The 76.9 miles displayed is actually 79.284 miles per our 3.1% under report calibration drive the other night. Google showed the distance at 78.7 miles but does not have the temporary Interstate construction mapped through Milwaukee yet.

    With 71.3 mpg displayed after 76.9 miles displayed, we come up with actuals of 79.284 miles/1.187 gallons = 66.794 mpgUS or an ~ 6.32% over report vs. actual. That is a little much for my taste but it is what it is.

    [​IMG]

    On the way back, I also completed the 65 mph steady state CC mpg’s. From yesterday’s and today’s data, we have the following:

    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid Calibrated Steady State FE Results

    Column1Column2Column3
    mphmpgUS displayed average ((NB+SB)/2)mpgUS Acutal
    50 mph59.9 mpgUS56.2
    55 mph55.2 mpgUS51.7
    60 mph48.9 mpgUS45.8
    65 mph41.8 mpgUS39.0


    [​IMG]

    About all for now and I will have more when I wake up in a few hours.

    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  18. Nevyn

    Nevyn Well-Known Member

    What exactly is that analog "Eco Meter" supposed to tell you? I couldn't figure it out on my quick stint in one the other day. I'm guessing it's kind of a "power meter" to tell you when you're asking for too much juice and will drop out of EV mode.
     
  19. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Nevyn:

    A simple power meter is all it is. Keep it green and your good. Well, we all keep it green without the meter so it takes up an awful lot of display real estate awhile providing limited feedback. It is the inaccurate iFCD that bothers me most. It is almost based on what you will get after a P&G cycle, vs. what you are receiving in real time. When you drop into EV, it pegs but it is also pegged even when the ICE is locked down to a particular load no matter the speed to refill the Li-Po.

    Wayne
     
  20. landongolf

    landongolf Active Member

    Wayne you have been the greatest in answer all my questions and I really can't thank you enough. Hope fully this will be my last question, this is big decission for me and I value youre answer. He is my question, I am narrowed it down to three choices, they are

    Out the door price with my trade-in MPG
    2011 Kia Optima Hybrid (Basic) 20,800 35-40
    Pros: Excellent gas, Good looking, Cons: More Expensive, Unknown Reliability, is gas Mileage what they say, Resale value, small trunk

    2011 Kia Optima EX Fully Loaded 20,300 24-34
    Pros: Good Gas Mileage, Great ride, The features are outstanding sunroof, Nav, cooled seats, large trunk,, Unknown Reliabilty, is gas mileage what they say, Resale value

    2012 Honda Civic EX 14,724 29-39
    Excellent gas mileage, Cheaper to drive, great resale value,, Less money out of the pocket, Cons Small car, not great styling


    Thanks Wayne , Jack:Banane15:
     

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