Global Deception

Discussion in 'In the News' started by msirach, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. worthywads

    worthywads Don't Feel Like Satan, I am to AAA

    I'm devastated. :eek: I shan't recover from that, brave spelling cop.

    But I really failed if you didn't realize my post wasn't serious.
     
  2. Tochatihu

    Tochatihu Well-Known Member

    Herm, following your link one can get the Spencer and Braswell 2011 in Remote Sensing. Via Roy Spencer's blog

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2011/07/our-refutation-of-dessler-2010-is-accepted-for-publication/

    one can get the Dessler 2010 in Science.

    If I were an atmospheric physics type of guy, I might dare to sort those two out. But I am not; I just do soil carbon, and try my best to see where earth system science is going in general.

    These two papers will (or at least should) be discussed by people who understand the field. If I see such a discussion going on I'll link to it here.

    With some reluctance I will suggest that sorting out the earth's energy balance referring solely to air temperatures is problematic. This is because (a) much of the added energy is going into the oceans (b) it is very difficult to measure small temperature changes there (c) by way of ENSO and other earth cycles, the energy stored in oceans fluxes in or out quite a bit differently among years.

    As both of the above papers (one anti and one pro) are based on air temperatures, well, there's a problem. Concerning the earth's energy balance, I'd say it hides its secrets pretty well. But people are trying, in many ways, to get a better handle on whether a lot more CO2 in the atmosphere will matter a little or a lot.

    Those who appeal to the precautionary principle suggest that it is not a good experiment to perform on this planet, us living here and all. But of course, not all are convinced and a lot of money stands to be made by burning fossil fuels.

    That's all I can add for now. Not much. Will return later to the latest questions on McKinsey.

    DAS
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  3. Tochatihu

    Tochatihu Well-Known Member

    Phoebeisis, the height of the bars is the cost and the width is the about to be saved. Both in those CO2 equivalent units with vertical incorporating Euros as well.

    Some of the bars seem optimistic to me, in one axis or both, but it's McKinsey's study and they are not saying how they did the math.

    Yes CO2 fluxes to the atmosphere don't appear anywhere. It was an abatement study. But I commented earlier (perhaps unclearly) about what the wdith of the source bars might be.

    DAS
     
  4. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

    Here's a good explanation of why the Roy Spencer paper isn't the big news that the Heartland Institute blogger claimed. The short version: the paper itself is moderate, the press release claims more than the paper accomplishes, and the news report (actually a blog post dressed up as a news report) was written by a lawyer who works for the Heartland Institute, putting "alarmism" in the headline.
     
  5. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Tochatihu
    Thanks-I missed that.
    So it looks like adding better heating ACs in houses , "improved efficiencies other industries" , more efficient new building.
    Nukes have plenty of potential they are relatively cheap and all the above are better than free
    Wind is pretty good also- not too pricy- retrofitting or building better coal(electricity plants??) is very expensive- planting new trees in deforested areas- not too pricy.
    Thanks

    What in the heck is clinkers/flyash ? something to do with generating electricity??Clinker??
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  6. ksstathead

    ksstathead Moderator

  7. booferama

    booferama He who posts articles

  8. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Hard coal poo.
    Flyash is the ashy waste.
     
  9. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Chogan2 FTW!
     
  10. Tochatihu

    Tochatihu Well-Known Member

    My reading of clinkers/fly ash was that using the latter in cement manufacture lowers the CO2 footprint. I am not completely certain of this interpretation; any others out there?

    Anyway I hope that Skates is not too put out that we are here discussing 'actually doing something about it' rather than his essay.

    DAS
     
  11. all_about_the_glide

    all_about_the_glide Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if this is the right place or right time to post this, my attention span does not allow me to digest all of the details of the discourse, but I'm good at the big picture and turning it into action. Money where your mouth is...On Monday I will authorize purchasing carbon offsets that fund reforestation of cattle pastures in northwest Ecuadorian cloudforests (one of the wettest, most biodiverse spots on the planet) in an amount nearly equal to 1% of our company's first half revenue (a large number vis a vis net profit). A much larger percentage of our newest brand. Gourmet coffee turned into gourmet carbon if you will. Coupled with money saving carbon footprint reduction inititives (carbon emissions are a good proxy for expense $) it is enough to drive our operations carbon negative. I can also go on about global warming harming coffee production, both quality and yield, (maybe you noticed it in the price) and astute farmers and cooperatives buying land at elavations where coffee has not previously grown, but I don't want to dilute the message. If you are truly concerned, conserve and invest some or all of the savings in offsets. It's good karma and good biz.
     
  12. msirach

    msirach Well-Known Member

    The flyash was sold as an admixture to concrete that increased the strength UNTIL the injection of PAC into the exit gas stream to capture a drivel of mercury contaminated it and made it unusable. A new EPA certified landfill was built for several million dollars so all the ash/PAC/mercury gets buried in the ground.

    Clinker is the material in coal that is non-burnable and gets fused into malformed rocks.
     
  13. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Poison concrete?? Who cares?
    Will it leach into the soil from a foundation- but plants don't absorb mercury to any degree,so who cares?
    I have mercury fillings, and don't lose any sleep over them( but would prefer I didn't have them)
    Charlie
     
  14. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    your central nervous system cares about mercury.. remember mad hatters disease?, but I doubt it would leach from concrete.

    The stuff was widely used in medicine but that use has declined severely.. I still have a bottle of Mercurochrome, still stings on cuts like liquid fire.

    Volcanoes supply about 1/2 the mercury in the atmosphere, coal burning plants supply 40%.
     
  15. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Sure your CNS cares, but how does it get from concrete into your CNS?
    Heck I have perhaps a gram of elemental mercury in my mouth- very little makes it to my CNS.
    It- mercury- was also used in Calamine lotion "you'll need a lotion,Calamine lotion"
    in Syphilis meds also.It worked better than nothing-for Syphilis-early 1900's.
     
  16. msirach

    msirach Well-Known Member

    This was taken from Dr. Roy Spencer's writings.

     
  17. herm

    herm Well-Known Member

    Another group of clueless scientist posted a study on arctic ocean ice, it has been far lower at times in the last 10k years..
     
  18. msirach

    msirach Well-Known Member

  19. diamondlarry

    diamondlarry Super MPG Man/god :D

  20. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Christ, "Red-Black-Green-Islamic Alliance". I thought I recognized the name Melanie Philips. She's another one of those former-liberal-neocons and is a columnist for the Daily F^HMail in the UK. Do a little searching and you'll get the idea of how her mind works.

    Definitely one to avoid.

    * The Daily Mail is a right-wing tabloid. Being right wing is OK, but repeated distortion of stories to push an agenda is not.
     

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