2011 Sonata GLS - Poor Gas Mileage (resolved)

Discussion in 'Start Your Journey Here' started by balshelmtov, Feb 10, 2011.

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Your 2011 Sonata GLS mpg relative to EPA estimates performs:

  1. At about the EPA rated mpg.

    16.7%
  2. Somewhat above the EPA rated mpg.

    16.7%
  3. Somewhat below the EPA rated mpg.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Far above (25% or greater) the EPA rated mpg.

    50.0%
  5. Far below (25% or greater) the EPA rated mpg.

    16.7%
  1. FSUspectra

    FSUspectra Practicing true conservatism!

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Well, given the offer you have, I would take Chris (MaxxMPG) up on his offer to see if it is just your drive and the difference between this larger car and the Civic you used to have. If you guys really determine there is an issue, then my prior suggestion may still stand. Doing it to be a PITA isn't going to make your situation any better. I have driven in downtown NYC for exactly 1 day in my entire life, in a rental car (08 or 09 Galant I believe), and I know my MPG tanked as well.

    KittyBoodles' idea is also a good one... take a drive in a car you know gets better numbers and see how it fares on your commute. There are many untapped options before you go throwing money into a lawsuit

    On the other hand, part of me feels like you've already written this car and Hyundai off and are gonna do what you're gonna do anyways, and no answer or advice any of us gives you will make you happy. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  2. msirach

    msirach Well-Known Member

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    I really believe that you should meet up with Chris and let him put in his 2 cents worth. It could really help. The Sonata is great car and I'm sure Chris could help.
     
  3. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Hi Balshelmtov:

    We have found some very disturbing history with regards to your Hyundai bashing and see that you have been banned from a number of enthusiast sites because of it.

    Again, either follow through with the help Chris has offered and is more than willing to provide or you will be asked to go play in someone else's sandbox when it comes to your overly promoted ridiculous claims.

    Every 2011 Hyundai Sonata we have driven has achieved at least 45 mpg on the low side (a 2011 Limited with a 6-speed AT), over 60 on the high side over lengthy distances including Crossing the Content on less than two tanks of fuel in the Hybrid in winter or driving from North of Milwaukee, WI to NY City and still having over 6-gallons of fuel left in the GLS with the 6-speed stick. I will easily give the benefit of the doubt to Hyundai as their latest Sonata’s of all trims (I have not yet driven the turbo however) have proven their fuel economy capabilities to us so many times to us that your argument without backing from an expert is wearing extremely thin.

    It is time to put up or shut up and that is a decision you have to make right here and now.

    As it stand, the 2011 Hyundai Sonata is the most affordable and fuel efficient large car we can purchase on the North American Continent and will continue to provide its award winning attributes to tens of thousands of its owners each and every month for the foreseeable future.

    Wayne
     
  4. ILAveo

    ILAveo Well-Known Member

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    My two cents' worth is that at this point Bal seems more interested in a pissing contest than in problem solving. I'm in favor of raising hell when people don't do their jobs, but even from just hearing Bal's side of the story it sounds like Bal started calling names and making threats about as soon has he had a mechanic honestly tell him "it drove OK when I tested it." Unless he gave them more info than he gave CMPG, they didn't have much to work with. Obviously Bal is dissatisfied, but he isn't very convincing and an arbitrator has no obligation to find that the customer is always right.

    It is also possible given his unwillingness to present the vehicle that he is a crank (e.g. disgruntled former employee, bitter business rival) bent on libeling Hyundai, a mechanic, or a particular dealership for reasons unrelated to any particular car.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  5. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Google does not make it easy to hide ones self

    See http://www.google.com/search?q=Bals...&hl=en&prmd=ivns&filter=0&fp=67f8506433722ca6

    While www.hyundaiforum.com deleted your thread and your account (i.e. banned you), Google has a record of it per the above link. If you wanted to say the hyundaiforum.com moderators treated you badly, it would be plausible, except your ranting here while dodging reasonable advise.

    Balshelmtov, is being believable important to you?

    Meet up with Chris and both of you drive the car. With Chris' input - credibility goes way up. Chris can determine if it's winter conditions, your driving, or that particular car is a lemon.

    Your other choice is to continue to rant, evade reasonable help, threaten legal action. If you are serious about a day in court, a good attorney is going to look at the Google search I linked and nobody is going to believe you have a leg to stand on - sorry. For you to have a snowball's chance in hell to win, you need evidence other drivers also get abysmal mpg on your car....contacting Chris would easily prove your case....so if you avoid that why should anyone take your allegations seriously?

    Can you answer that or are you going to lower yourself and go behaviorial?
     
  6. balshelmtov

    balshelmtov 2011 Sonata GLS

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    While Chris' inviting me to his home or to help me in person or take out my car for a drive to "help" is a very generous offer, I do not know Chris and I do not blindly accept unsolicited offers of benevolence from strangers, especially over the web. Is Chris' someone everybody knows of? Is this something I have missed? If so that's a different story.

    In previous postings I mentioned that the dealership lied on their own service invoice as to any road test they ran and the incredibly conservative driving conditions/style I have conducted any tests on, and my wife and I wife generally drive under.

    Also in another posting and perhaps most poignantly under their better than ideal "city" conditions two managers and I took what they called a city road test and achieved 16 mpg.

    I would like to fix this but using my figures or their contrived figures, according to them the car is driving within design parameters!?!?!?!
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  7. balshelmtov

    balshelmtov 2011 Sonata GLS

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Help me see the logic. Chris meets with me. He agrees the car is getting HORRIBLE gas mileage. Now where does that get me with Hyundai? Is he someone with special pull in Hyundai?

    While Chris' inviting me to his home or to help me in person or take out my car for a drive is a very generous offer, I do not know Chris and I do not blindly accept unsolicited offers of benevolence from strangers, especially over the web. Is Chris' someone everybody knows of? Is this something I have missed? If so that's a different story.

    Also in another posting and perhaps most poignantly under their better than ideal "city" conditions, two Hyundai managers and I took what they called a city road test and achieved 16 mpg.

    I would like to fix this but using my figures or their contrived figures, according to Hyundai the car is driving within design parameters!?!?!?!
     
  8. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    This much I know - if you refuse to meet with Chris, and he easily can if you allow it, your credibility is zilch with anyone in general....just screams you are afraid Chris is going to get decent mpg numbers and make it look like it may be something you are doing.

    Wayne gets some unbelievable numbers too - he has witnesses to validate it, why are you above witnesses?

    Now are you going to prove it's not you by letting Chris try your car out?

    No - I expect you to continue to be behavioral here as you were at the Hyundai forum - to hell with you being sensible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  9. msirach

    msirach Well-Known Member

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    balshelmtov:

    I understand why you would be wary, but I can assure you that we are a close-knit community and many of us have driven the Sonata. Chris has owned one for a considerable amount of time.

    He is a moderator and a well respected member. His experience and analogy of driving your car will help put proper perspective on your claims.

    Hyundai is a well respected company that has made huge leaps and bounds in their design.

    Yes, We can help.
     
  10. balshelmtov

    balshelmtov 2011 Sonata GLS

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage


    Thank you for your in person offer of assistance.

    The EPA has very controlled conditions under which they run their tests to simulate city and highway driving. They are the same for every car of each model year, so their are no differences for a heavy car with a small engine than from any other car weight/engine size configuration.

    Also Hyundai ran a second test with me and two of their managers in the car and under their unrealistically conservative "city" conditions I only achieved 16 mpg which they said were within design parameters.

    I don't think the issue here is my testing procedures, conditions, driving style etc. Only two things are going to really fix my situation. Either someone will think of something no one else has as to what is causing my car to get such poor mileage or Hyundai will give me every dollar of my money back.

    Admittedly with no suggestions to date that have made a difference in the car's performance, I am using this this forum's ideas and criticisms to prepare for my arbitration. To a lesser extent I am trying to tell the world, if they get a lemon from Hyundai as I did how little support they will get from Hyundai.

    If your offer is still open in 2 weeks I may take you up on it. Realistically though, once we went for a drive and the results support my 13.5 mpg finding, how would that help me? Again I am not trying to be a jerk but with my background I think very pragmatically and logically; I don't take a step without knowing the next set of choices.
     
  11. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Balshelmatov

    I think the reason members suggest you meet with Chris(Maxx) is they don't know you.
    They don't know if you are a straight shooter who actually has a lemon, or a crank who regrets buying a new car and wants to pressure Hyundai to get his $$ back.Or someone with a heavy foot and a horrible commute.

    If Maxx drives it and shows 20 mpg at 60 mph-warm engine- he'll tell us you are straight.
    If he shows 35+ mpg at 60 mph-he'll say you are a crank.
    It won't actually take any extensive testing since your stated mpg is so extreme.

    Luck
    Charlie
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2011
  12. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    It's very simple, let one of us like Chris have the same experience and your believability spikes.

    Until then we are very skeptical and probably everyone else.

    That threshold is lower than winning a lawsuit.
     
  13. FSUspectra

    FSUspectra Practicing true conservatism!

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    The people here drive their cars and achieve well beyond what the EPA suggests, and we know what the EPA test is. We have a link describing it in our starter page: Beating the EPA - The Why's and How to Hypermile

    IF, and only if, another Sonata owner can repeat your experience, with his proof that he can exceed the EPA in his own vehicle and cannot in yours, you have leverage. You are giving us very little to go on with respect to the specifics of your commute or other driving variables.
     
  14. ILAveo

    ILAveo Well-Known Member

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    You are not being pragmatic if you think these are the only two significant possibilities.
     
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Hi B:

    I have edited your car description until such time as help is accepted. I would not touch it as the ice under your feet has now disappeared and you are magically walking on water. Either pull back your horns and cooperate with us to help you or you find a new home to get banned from as you have done while participating on other forums in the past.

    Wayne
     
  16. balshelmtov

    balshelmtov 2011 Sonata GLS

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Hyundai's District Managers Ted Lytle and Gregory Pavlov drove in my Hyundai in what they term "city" testing. The EPA's methods for determining 22 mpg city are much harsher. In our test there were no cold starts and there were NO HARD ACCELERATIONS NOR HARD STOPS. There couldn't be. The ground was slippery, so accelerations were gentle and we had to glide at 2-3 mph into stop signs. We were in the middle of a snow storm. The results of that test, that Hyundai is not in dispute of, using a completely different method to compute fuel consumption were 16mpg.

    Before I ask Chris to help me; I'd like to know if/when Chris duplicates and independently validates my results, and I mean no disrespect to anyone, how will that help me get the car fixed or my money back from Hyundai?
     
  17. balshelmtov

    balshelmtov 2011 Sonata GLS

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    I'd be most appreciative if you can share with me reasonable alternatives.
     
  18. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS HORRIBLE Gas Mileage

    Do you consider "anonymous" agreement posting on the internet more useful to your cause than meeting up with a physical person who has documented good results in your make and model of vehicle and thus has a good benchmark for objective comparison... over the same routes you use, no less?

    Let me advance a different suggestion. Several of us have documented proof of fuel efficiency achievements -- proof in the form of trusted third party video footage (by such authorities as CNN) along with official monitoring measures (such as sealed gas tanks and monitoring of routes driven as well as chaperoned fuel fill ups). We are the real deal here and have extensive experience proving it. Let us do the same with your vehicle. Let us do the same with another vehicle as well and compare official, documented results which will be admissible court evidence useful for objective analysis. Much more so than internet babble about built in gauge numbers which may or may not be accurate (we document actual miles divided by gallons pumped at the gas station -- let us do it on video).

    If you want results, let the guys who have been doing it for years with the media directly involved help you out.
     
  19. ksstathead

    ksstathead Moderator

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS - Poor Gas Mileage

    OP, if I were within 250 miles of Chris or of Wayne, I'd go to them (given the invite) and get a clinic in my '10 Prius which neither of them drive regularly. And I already beat the EPA by a significant margin. They are that good.

    You have a car Chris knows exceedingly well. He can hook up a scanguage, see your driving, drive it if you allow, observe its results in those exact conditions.

    Worst case, you eat a little crow and the car gives you better mpg. Or, you get support for your arbitration.

    In any event, you will get better mpg in every car you own from now on due to the tutelage.

    No downside here. I see Wayne on TV all the time. Wayne knows Chris pretty well. I've seen Chris's actions as moderator here. Chris knows and loves your car model.
     
  20. KittyBoodles

    KittyBoodles Ferocious FeLion

    Re: 2011 Sonata GLS - Poor Gas Mileage

    I've noticed that you've repeatedly ignored requests for specific information within this forum that can help the members here to suggest tests or solutions. Without this missing critical data (distances/gallons) actual MPG simply can not be determined.

    Instead, you have continued to insist that the car is somehow defective while, at the same time, you have not offered any of your gathered information to support your claims.

    So that other members here can get some perspective, here is the information posted elsewhere;


    On your above post, you said:
    It's actually a testimony to the Sonata that it is able to deliver 16mpg during a snow storm.
     

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