@Nissan begins dealing with the Leaf's ‘range anxiety'

Discussion in 'Nissan' started by msirach, Oct 16, 2010.

  1. RobertSmalls

    RobertSmalls Ecodriver

    No, the impact will be large even if you don't use the HVAC. Aerodynamic drag rises as temperature falls because the density of air rises. A tire's rolling resistance rises when the tire is cold. Headlight usage increases in darker months. Every single lubricant in the car becomes more viscous, and bearings and shafts will sap a little more power. If snow and ice are allowed to build up on the car, they will add aero drag and weight. An uncomfortable driver is a less effective hypermiler. I'm sure there are other factors, but those are the big ones.

    Defrosting the windshield is always interesting in the winter. I've always had trouble with that, until I got a place with a garage and started parking with the driver's window down.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    Thanks Robert, good points.

    New phrase: hypomiler? ;)
     
  3. RobertSmalls

    RobertSmalls Ecodriver

    I suppose a hypomiler would be one whose fuel economy falls well short of expectations. The term should probably reserved for those die hard, binary throttle types for whom the brakes are just another tool to keep their average speed up. Most times, you'll see them at the next light, but other times, they gain a minute or more on you by getting there first. Again, they're not universally incompetent, they just have different priorities.

    Me, I'm just an ecodriver. I drive thoughtfully, but my techniques are far from hyper. I'm at 65lmpg for the car's first 11.5mo in service, and I'm sure next year will be better.
     
  4. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    I'm lazy, so I'm asking here.

    Just what percent of the electricity metered is actually stored in a Leaf car battery

    1)With 110
    2)With 220

    It is a high number right-maybe 95% or so?
    Does it change much depending on how fast you jam the energy in?

    I'm assuming GM's and Nissan's engineers read the same books, so there shouldn't be any significant advantage for anyone?

    Thanks
    Charlie
     
  5. RobertSmalls

    RobertSmalls Ecodriver

    Charlie,

    Not 95%. Maybe 80-90%, depending on battery chemistry, and how much GM/Nissan spent on the charger. If charging efficiency data are included with each charger, or some other effort is made to make consumers aware of the issue, then automakers will be sure to select efficient components in their chargers.

    I ordered inexpensive 48V DC power supplies, and built an 84% efficient charger for the Insight on the cheap. This charges a 90-something percent efficient battery. The expensive power supplies in the same catalog advertise up to 91% efficiency iirc.

    For NiMH and Pb at least, and probably lithium too, higher charge rates result in lower charging efficiency.
     
  6. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Robert, thanks-

    Just 85%- nothing to brag about-good thing electricity is cheap.
    So a Prius getting 1 mile per 250 watthrs is actually getting more like 1 mile per 300 watthrs paid for?

    And the 250 watt hrs used means the battery is actually delivering 90% or so(230 watt hrs) to the terminals of the electric motor?
     
  7. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    Somebody charging the Prius PHEV off 110V reported 3.5kWh metered. Don't know what the usable capacity is on the battery.
     
  8. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    ItsNotAbout-

    What is the capacity claim on that battery?
    Isn't Toyota EXTREMELY CONSERVATIVE in how deeply they will discharge batteries?
    Don't they allow just a 30% draw down of the regular Prius-barely 500 watt hrs-couple of miles at best?

    Now if this guy has poured 3.5 KWHr in it should have a range of 14 miles or so- very very good-especially if it has a MSRP of just $3000 over the normal Prius.
    Many folks-me, son,wife-drive less than 6 miles-work-drive home- under 14 miles.
    This would half our fuel costs-heck 10,000/yr miles would cost just $250/yr for fuel.Granted at $2.50/gal payback with be 12 years 120,000 miles but the "not running on foreign fuel and probably putting out less CO2" is worth something even to dollars and cents people like me.

    Didn't Wayne post something showing the Leaf getting about 1 mile per 160 watt hrs? Pretty good-it must be pretty light.
    What is the claimed weight of a Leaf?- 3000 lbs?
    Heck with no engine and transmission(500 lbs) adding 700 lb BP+ 150 LB electric motor+100 lbs misc regenerating "stuff"- it should be only 500 lbs more than a Versa?
    Wt of its battery pack(700 lbs or so?)

    Just adding this stuff up makes the Volt's 3800 lbs seem reasonable.

    Thanks
    Charlie
     
  9. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    It's a 5.something kWh battery with between 3 and 3.5 usable. It's the true usable figure that I don't have.

    TheForce posted on PriusChat for year 2 of his HyMotion Prius. He ran a 1-charge test, and got 192Wh. It was a bit worse than previous years, but it has worse conditions than the previous two tests. Bear in mind that he's an efficient driver with an EV-appropriate commute.

    I think Wayne said he got 160Wh/mile which will obviously be at the low end of the curve. ;)

    You're right that it's not going to pay back without multi-charging each day. But, for some people it's not about the money ;) and it could be a relatively cheap way of increasing EV fun time.

    I wouldn't go for it myself, because of the low AER compared to typical trip length. I'd love to have different range options available. A Prius PHEV-39/40 would, I think, rock my world (as well as making GM weep).
     

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