Hypermiling the Ford Escape Hybrid ...

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by GaryG, Mar 23, 2006.

  1. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi Phillip

    Sorry that I missed answering you question on the fake shift. As far as letting off the accelerator quickly for a fake shift, I find it will send the deepest surge of energy the faster you release it. People are sending email on how long you stay off the accelerator. The answer to that is when the assist needle starts returning back to the center (about 3 seconds). It all depends on a number of things like if the ICE starts shuting down when you don't want it to. Two fake shifts is where I find the sweet spot for enough charge for EV. Remember that the second fake shift is going to shut down the ICE like you want it to, and you want to shift into "N" just before the tach drops to Zero. You learn that point by watching the tach after a while. As far as your wife's neck, mine complained also at first. Now that I'm saving alot of money at the pump, she has somehow quit complaining. In fact, she is now bragging about getting 21mpg in the Exployer.

    It's great phillip that your on the move up to 39.9mpg BTW.

    All John wants to do with this "D" and "N" coasting is get into dead heading. This is a state in "D" that regen stops if you hold the go pedal just right. It is something I"M very aware of and don't care to use or discuss any further. It appears he wants to continue picking my bones after I just explained how to push his FEH over 70mpg. Now, he thinks my advantage is because I only weigh 110 lbs and he carry's twice that weight in his FEH. Question for Wayne, do you think my light weight makes a difference? See our post on GH "Mile To Empty" in the FEH section.

  2. tbaleno

    tbaleno Well-Known Member

    if you want a signature check out the milage records page and enter a car and a tank and then view your tanks. You will see the image on that page and you can copy and paste the link to your signature. Note that the database is still being developed so there are many bugs.
  3. tbaleno

    tbaleno Well-Known Member

    If you enter a tank it should put the right name in there now. Curently the only way to update the sig is to add a tank. I don't have it change the image when you change your car. It is a feature for the future.
  4. zadscmc

    zadscmc Member

    I have been able to push my 05 FEH 4WD to 37.8 on a tank of gas. This mileage was mostly highway and country roads (45-50 mph).

    I don't have a scan gauge, but by using a technique you call FS, I can run the machine at 1500 rpm in L, and be poised for that switch to EV when the traffic falls below 40 mph.

    Since my wife is the primary driver of the car, I don't get many chances to drive it for a sustained length of time. However, I am sure I can manage a tank over 40 mpg, even with a fair amount of highway driving.
  5. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Now that I found a sweet spot which is 25mph to glide (coast) down to in EV, and pulse (accelerate) in EV to 30-32mph for another EV glide in neutral (“N”), I’m raising my averages on all roads when I get the chance as traffic allows. An example would be if the speed limit is 45mph, I slowly accelerate (1,800rpm’s) to that speed and begin a ICE ON glide (coast) in “N” allowing traffic to pass for an all clear behind and go EV at 40mph. Glide to 25mph if I can with traffic and then pulse to 30-32mph in EV and repeat as much as possible. As traffic begins to come in behind, I’m increasing back up to 45mph for another repeat. This helps the flow of traffic by not having a slow vehicle causing a bottleneck. It’s best to get a good fake shift into the battery at 30mph before your climb with the ICE running, to be ready for EV with the second Fake Shift. If traffic is heavy for awhile and they can’t pass with normal flow, just let the battery reach a full charge and use it when traffic clears. Pulse and Glide ICE ON from 45mph in “N” to what traffic can handle. If the traffic flow is higher than 45mph, the posted limit, I may go to 50mph and start the glide, depending on heavy traffic and the amount of lanes.

    Most of the FEH’s and AWD models that have less than 12,000 miles may not be able to Pulse from 25mph to 30mph in EV. You may have to settle for a slower P&G in EV like 22mph to 27mph. Xcel was able to climb to 38-39mph in my FEH, but things get too sensitive above 32mph for a fast pulse in EV. The lower 32mph can be had real quick and saves the battery for more Pulses before the ICE starts. Never thought I’d be doing the P&G in EV until I discovered “N” gliding.

  6. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    Okay, I've read and re-read this entire thread and I still don't
    quite understand the notion of "fake shift". Now, I'm a Prius
    driver, but my understanding was that the FEH drivetrain is very
    similar to Toyota's HSD. In the Prius, simply backing off the
    go-pedal while in "D" is sufficient to stop the ICE and run in
    EV for a while. Does the FEH honestly keep the engine *running*
    even with no accelerator demand once everything's warmed up?
    That's nuts if it's true, and screws up one of the really great
    advantages of how the Prius works. In a nutshell, what I tell
    people about any hybrid system is "ICE on and running efficiently,
    or not running at all".
    I've got a much longer piece about throttle and torque management
    rolling around in my head, but it hasn't hit text form yet.
  7. johnf514

    johnf514 Zoom? Try Glide!

    From what I've gathered, the purpose of a "fake" shift is to juice back up the battery without revving the engine (therefore, using fuel) to rev up the ICE to spin the generator to charge the batteries.

    Wow, that was a mouthful. ;)

    So the shift uses the gearing of the tranmission to spin up the engine, spin the generator, and charge the battery.

    Correct me if I'm wrong. :)
  8. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi John and Hobbit

    The FEH has two separate electric motor/generators. The largest one is the Traction Motor which works with the wheels to give you forward and reverse torque, as well as regenerative braking when you let off the go pedal or hit the brakes. The ICE provides foward torque and can turn the small generator to charge the HV Battery with a low SoC.

    My technique of the Fake Shift is simply letting off the go pedal quickly in "D or "L" to reduce RPM's and get regenerative energy from the wheels by turning the larger traction motor as a generator. The Ice does not rev, but is reduced in RPM's and will shut off under 40mph to go EV if you continue to keep off the gas in "L" for more that two or three seconds. This I have given the name of "The Low Gear Advantage" (LGA) to go EV and shift back to "N" for a great EV glide from forty or below MPH.

    The Fake Shift can be also used to pump up the battery faster, and take the load off the ICE turning the small generator.

  9. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hobbit Quotes:

    "Okay, I've read and re-read this entire thread and I still don't
    quite understand the notion of "fake shift". Now, I'm a Prius
    driver, but my understanding was that the FEH drivetrain is very
    similar to Toyota's HSD. In the Prius, simply backing off the
    go-pedal while in "D" is sufficient to stop the ICE and run in
    EV for a while. "

    Wish I knew more about the Prius, like does it have a "L" position on the shifter. On the FEH, whenever you let off the gas in "D" or "L", the wheels turn the traction motor to get regen power to the battery. The FEH will go EV in "D", but it's not a sure thing. If you let off the gas in "L", you will go EV if your <40mph in most cases.

    "Does the FEH honestly keep the engine *running*
    even with no accelerator demand once everything's warmed up?
    That's nuts if it's true, and screws up one of the really great
    advantages of how the Prius works. In a nutshell, what I tell
    people about any hybrid system is "ICE on and running efficiently,
    or not running at all"."

    No, the FEH shuts down like the Prius if your speed is less than 40mph and you are in "L". According to xcel, the FEH has a much stronger battery pack for EV than the Prius. He was able to go from 0 to 39mph in EV in my FEH. Wayne's got better foot control than my max 37-38mph from zero.
    "I've got a much longer piece about throttle and torque management
    rolling around in my head, but it hasn't hit text form yet."

    The reason I can hit 70+ MPG on a segment, is because I use the torque curve at low RPM's to my advantage for accelerating. I'm very interested in if the Prius has the regen control to keep the battery charged for extended EV driving. Example, I can recharge the battery 25% in about 2 block, and go EV for about 10 blocks using P&G in the EV mode. I was able to go 10 miles at about 75mpg. If the Prius can recharge the battery like the FEH, what would the Prius hit. I drive with a minimal SoC where the Battery can take a rapid charge in a short distance and carry me in EV almost 5 times that distance. My technique is very sensitive as far as speed for the fake shifts and P&G.

  10. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    Yes, the Prius has an "L" equivalent called "B". It may be
    instructive to read
    which is another in this series of "okay, enough of giving
    the same answer over and over" articles. Please look through
    that and see if it's similar to FEH behavior.
    I find it odd that you *have* to shift to L to force ICE shutdown
    by backing your foot off, though. For the people who just leave
    it in D, is their engine running constantly, then, or only
    stopping at vehicle stops?
    The Prius also regens more heavily upon backoff in "B" or your
    "L" equivalent, but not that much more -- it uses a mild regen
    as a "fake drag" even in "D" anyways, and increases from there
    on a braking request. It's all a smooth continuum, really.
    The system is always seeking to reach a 60% SOC, so being high
    or low of that simply changes the acceleration *request* threshold
    at which the ICE comes on. It's not a question of "enough for
    extended EV" -- if you've got a nominal SOC then you get reasonable
    EV runs, and if you're low then the engine has to help make up
    for it.
    Now, I *totally* don't understand what you mean by "pulse & glide
    in EV mode". The entire *essence* of P&G is to use the *engine* to get
    going, and the electric system [and momentum] to keep going as
    long as you can in bursts. Pulsing in electric should gain
    nothing, and lead to higher make-up charge needed later and more
    ohmic heating in wires and battery cells. Are you *sure* your
    engine isn't running during these?
    Sounds like I'm going to just have to try this someday..
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Hobbit:

    ___I hope this will help alleviate some of the real world driving differences between the Prius II and the FEH as well as give both Gary and John some insight about the Prius II’s real world FE maximums.

    ___The FEH and Prius II are completely different animals built from very similar components. The Prius II will run ICE-Off below 41 on a whim whereas the FEH is a bit tougher to get into ICE-Off for any number of reasons.

    ___Pack … Ford appears to be protecting a much higher internal resistance Sanyo pack far better then Toyota is with its much lower internal resistance Panasonic when considering the Prius II’s SoC range as posted in the Prius Tech group under a variety of driving conditions. Ford only allows a very tightly controlled band under all driving conditions in the FEH. Because of the packs higher internal resistance, I believe Ford’s cel and/or cel group temperature limitations are also controlled far more tightly including the ability of the pack coolant itself to maintain parameter’s thus removing that many more opportunities for ICE-Off/EV conditions vs. the Prius II. John do not post that SoC range, OK ;)

    ___Emissions … When John and I were speaking with the Ford control and design engineers at the Ford Escape Hybrid Experience last year, we kept running into a discussion of an emissions hard deck. Ford is holding inferred emissions at a very conservative level which can never be breached under any and all circumstances. I am sure Toyota has similar parameters but the 1.5’s effluent may be so much less then the 2.3’s so as to allow the Prius II’s 1.5L to run ICE-Off much more of the time. I cannot with absolute certainty say that the 2.3’s emissions are tougher to control then Toyota’s 1.5 but it seems plausible? It may be that Ford does not have the CAT tech in the FEH but Ford’s CAT tech in other areas is some of the best in the world so I doubt this is the limiting issue. Either way, the feeling John and I felt after the event was Ford’s ultra-conservative emission specs had ultimate authority over and above the drivetrain integration and control guys thus leaving them handcuffed over a far greater range then Toyota may have been with the Prius II.

    ___MGSet’s … Given the FEH is a heavier vehicle and functions as a small SUV with the capabilities to run off-road and under conditions you would not dare take the Prius II into, its MG2 was built with a much more robust capability and thus its relatively strong EV capability with the appropriate matched current and power output to match while lightly loaded. Not that the Prius cannot run EV (we all know it does) but the FEH’s is a bit stronger feel under light loading from my perspective is all.

    ___With the above, the FEH should be driven in such a manner to maximize Glide and then EV at slower speeds for the highest FE. The Prius on the other hand should be driven with less EV and more straight gliding for its maximum FE. As mentioned above, the Prius II loves to run ICE-Off on just about any occasion below 41 mph after the basic temperature, emissions, and load specs are met. The FEH has to sometimes be coerced into ICE-Off with LGA being possibly the best way to achieve this condition and once evoked; run in N for the longest glide to a lower target speed and let her strong EV at lowest load maintain the lower target until the pack is nearly or fully depleted or if the ICE starts for Emissions concerns.

    ___As for Gary’s practically patented FEH - FS, Gary has touched upon that more then once in this thread as well as his posts around the net. I will try to describe FS it in my own words and from what I remember while driving his FEH around both Sebring and Kissimmee, Florida. Besides trying to keep the 2.3 at the lowest RPM near that first torque peak, a FS can pull the FEH out of an almost intolerable area when the pack is at or near low SoC and MG1 is pulling from the ICE so hard as to hamper its FE capabilities during any re-acceleration to a higher target speed or while in steady state cruise. 2 FS’s in succession not only take the SoC out of the range where MG1 is dragging on the ICE at its maximum, but there is enough power instilled back into the pack so as to allow the FEH to run in her ever so lightly loaded EV mode for far greater distance then would seem possible. I think I posted this earlier about a segment where I was driving and Gary was guiding. I performed 2 FS’s from an almost depleted pack within ~ 2 blocks heading into a light. There was not only enough power reintroduced back into the pack to remove the strong MG1 pull, there was also enough to breach Ford’s pack parameters to allow for ICE-Off via the LGA to D to N for the coast to that light IIRC? Not only were we in an ICE-Off condition, we now had a 1/3 usable SoC to play with which allowed us to run in EV from that light to ~ 1/2 mile beyond at which time we repeated the process … I cannot explain the physics because it doesn’t seem possible to surge charge a pack via Regen with its accompanying loss of momentum just twice with short accel’s in between and then EV for a much longer period afterwards but it did in fact open my eyes as to the secondary reason for the FS to improve yet again the FE available from an FEH! This next level of FE via the FS is beyond the standard LGA to N to lower target speed and back to D for EV to maintain said target until pack depletion and repeat.

    ___Gary will straighten out anything I may have misconstrued above but it was truly amazing to run the FEH through (2) Pulse’s w/ (2) very short Regen segments in between, LGA to ICE-Off, N glide to a lower target, and EV afterwards to maintain the lower target for such a long distance before having to repeat.

    ___And the Prius II’s high FE capabilities in my experience … A Pulse from a lower speed with current via MG1 being pushed into the pack and then feathering the throttle to induce an ICE-Off Glide at 40 mph and below (Dead Band) to the lower target and repeat. This is standard P&G with a slight amount of EV to get you over any shallow rise so as to extend any glide which again allowed some truly outrageous FE to be had on the State route along the Ohio River near Pittsburgh last August. I spoke with Dan about going to N in order to remove any EMF on the MG’s for longer glides and possibly allow more power for a bit more EV but he said glide distances were equal in N or in D during ICE-Off glide in his Prius II so there should not have been any advantage gained to run in N after an ICE-Off Glide was first initiated at high target other then if you were using Hobbit’s warp stealth when and where appropriate.

    ___Sorry if this post is a bit tough to understand. I am not only recalling both the FEH and Prius II techniques from memory, I am trying to describe details of what each of the two vehicles felt like during their respective trials under my tutelage that may or may not have a basis in reality as I recall them today.

    ___Good Luck

  12. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Excellent Job Wayne!

    The acronyms may drive reader's crazy, but your right on.

    Hobbit, I read the link that you posted on the "B" position, and it appears it's pretty much the same as the "L" position on the shifter in the FEH. The only thing that is not the same is the ability to use it as a method of sending a quick supper charge to the battery for EV driving. Also, from reading the link, it explains why I prefer to conduct the fake shifts at or above 30mph for the max charge as well as using the momentum of the heavy FEH to hold it's speed.

    Using the P&G allows going the extra distance in EV. You can't get to the speeds in EV that you normally would with the ICE running, but still, I use it quite effectively for great FE. Two FS's allows me to get two P&G's in EV. The last FS is done at ~35mph to go EV, and a glide in "N" down to ~25mph before another pulse back to 30-32mph in EV. Most of the time, you can pulse twice to 30-32mph before the ICE restarts between 25-30mph. At that point, I accelerate at 1800rpm's to 30mph for another first FS which generally will not shut down the ICE because the battery is still so low. My speed after the first FS has slowed the FEH down to around ~27mph. Pulsing back up to ~35 at 1800rpm's for the second and last FS taking me into EV and the glide. One trick I've used effectively is to go to "N" before the ICE shuts down for a smooth glide at max speed (~32mph). It seems this is the best speed (25-35mph), and technique to bring the FEH into the 70+mpg range. It will take someone like Wayne to show me a better way. BTW, I use this method in my daily drive whenever posible and traffic permitting. My battery seldom sees half full except in the warm-up in the morning. The fake shift does most of my charging and I don't worry about the ICE sucking up the fuel with a low SoC for the short time it's running.

  13. tbaleno

    tbaleno Well-Known Member

    Well, looks like we have to add them to the glossary then ;)
  14. hobbit

    hobbit He who posts articles

    Well ... it still sounds pretty weird, but hats off. The FS must really
    make the car "fall on its face" momentarily and lose a certain amount of
    speed; fortunately it sounds like you can get back up to a running
    speed via EV thereafter.
    One big diff between FEH and Prius is that in "B", the prius will *keep*
    the engine running -- no particularly good reason, it just does.
    You have to be in "D" to let it shut down, period. "N" doesn't work
    because the Prius' definition of "N" really is "don't apply any
    control whatsoever to the motors", which includes controlling ICE
    shutdown in a way that repositions the crank for best light-off
    again later -- so for "N", if the ICE is off it stays off and if
    it's running it stays running.
    "N" and "D" in the Prius are *almost* equivalent for gliding but it
    turns out that there's a very small draw from the battery even in
    the "no-arrows" deadband state which helps make the glide just a wee
    bit longer. This is how I justified [and Wayne just confirmed]
    the "slightly EV aided glide" strategy to help level speed out, keep
    the butthead off my tail, and still return high FE.
    I'd still like to see all this actively working in the FEH one of
    these days. Want amusing? I pulled up at a light next to a couple
    in a brandy-new FEH, with my Tour de Sol stickers still on my car;
    made the "roll down yer window" motion and then told them how a guy
    had pulled 42.something mpg on the rally loop. They were thrilled;
    they went on about how they totally loved the car so far...
  15. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member


    I understand deadbanding to keep the energy flow arrows off for maintaining a glide, but I'm having a hard time believing that "N" is not better than "D" coasting in the Prius. Also, I think you should try the fake shifts in "B" to recharge a low battery and go back to "D" for ICE-OFF to see if that helps the Prius FE. The Prius doesn't have the weight of the FEH, but the MG2 in the Prius doesn't have or need the power of the FEH MG2. This all could be very interesting to find out. Also, lets not forget the Highlander and Lexus Hybrids.

    Wayne had me do some coasting test in the FEH last year, and I would have never guessed at the results I got. He ask me to get up to 40mph in "D" and coast down in EV to a complete stop. I used my trip O to measure the distance. Wayne ask to do the same in "N", key off at 40mph. There was a 36% increase in distance to a stop. This lead me to conduct the same test with key on in EV and ICE-ON.

    Here's what I found:

    1. "N" increased gliding 36% in EV over "D" (key off or on) because all regen was removed. At first, we thought it was the gear set freeing up, but I'm convinced now the regen was the drag even though no regen arrows were present.

    2. "N" also increased the distance to a stop with the ICE running to 38%. This tells me that the engine turnning did take some of the load off the gear set by 2%. For this reason, I do alot of high speed coasting in "N" when the ICE has to run with Key on.

    Remember, I'm pushing over 50mpg in the city going every where now, of course without the A/C and running good 87 octane. Try these test on a country road and bring a can of white paint to mark a line for starting and stopping. BTW, when I returned a few weeks later to my test site, the paint marks were still there to conduct more test.

  16. Green FEH

    Green FEH Member

    I have a 2006 FWD FEH and used to think using battery power in general was bad for fuel economy (FE) because FE took a big hit when the generator/starter and ICE were used to recharge the battery. (I didn’t think I had driving conditions where recharging could be done with the traction motor/regeneration.) However…

    Yesterday part of my drive was in bumper-to-bumper, stop-and-go traffic (Maryland-Virginia, 80+F temperatures) for over an hour. Drivers were being very civil for some reason --- not jumping into 2-car gaps if you left some space or sitting on your bumper. So I decided to try a couple of Gary’s ideas.

    First, using L-gear, I would briefly accelerating with traffic using the ICE-on up to 35-40 mph, and then slow with traffic which would turn off the ICE almost immediately (due to L-gear) and the traction motor/regeneration would recharge the battery. I could then run in EV mode for some distance. I was able to do this repeatedly so that for the last 45 minutes of the traffic jam the energy screen was essentially all green (there was only an occasional very small dark triangle corresponding to an ICE-on episode that was a little longer than I should have had, but not bad for a first attempt at this technique). The other positive of this technique was that normally when driving in a traffic jam like this, the ICE would cycle every 3 or so minutes to keep the FEH at operating temperature, which also kills FE. By using this technique, the FEH stayed at operating temperature and I didn’t take the “ICE cycling for operating temperature” FE hit.

    Second, using neutral with the FEH really is different from deadbanding and can improve FE under certain circumstances. In deadbanding, you adjust the pedal so there is no energy flow to/from the battery. However, the FEH uses a 3-phase AC permanent-magnet synchronous electric motor which means that while there may be no energy flowing, there is still a drag resulting from the magnets/conductors rotating relative to each other. Ford patent 6,793,034 titled “Wheel-End and Center Axle Disconnects for an Electric or HEV” describes how neutral disconnects the traction motor from the drive wheels, which would eliminate drag that is present when deadbanding. Thus, when in EV mode, neutral allows you to coast further with the engine off, and thus helps FE. However, when the ICE is not off, putting the FEH in neutral allows the ICE rpms to “drift” to higher levels, which seems to slightly increase fuel consumption. (Sorry, I don’t have a Scangauge to confirm this.) So while there is less drag in neutral with ICE-on and the FEH can coast further, there is a probably a slight increase in fuel usage leading to no observable (at least to me) FE improvement.

    So in closing, until yesterday, I had thought Gary’s approaches to achieving FE improvements were special to his flat, non-congested Florida highways and unrealizable by me. But through his persistence, I finally “get it.” Thanks Gary.
  17. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi GreenFEH:

    ___Not only where you working that traffic like you should, I bet your FE was pretty decent too ;)

    ___Thank you for the detailed patent info on the “Center Axle Disconnect” workings as it explains what Gary is seeing in his FEH while running from LGA to ICE-Off to N for the longest glide.

    ___Good Luck

  18. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hello, welcome and thank you Green FEH.

    That may be a patent I missed, so I'll check it out. It has always been my belief that deadbanning for other than maintaining speed, used more energy than "N" coasting. Anytime you push on the accelerator, torque is being applied and energy is being used IMO. Of course, if the key is on and operating things like the power steering etc, your losing energy fast in "N" with no regen in EV also. This is where the problem get solve real fast when the ICE restarts and shifting to "L" for the Fake Shift Super Charge I love so much.

    Your right about a higher idle in "N" than "D" when coasting, and the increased RPM's burns more fuel according to the SG. The reason for the higher idle I believe is, because of no regen and the smaller generator has to make up the difference by charging more. As far as not being as good as "D" for FE, remember you get 38% longer coasting and it's still charging with the ICE/generator when over 6mph. For this reason, I take it out of "N" below 6mph and at stops with the ICE running for warm up. If you take into account, having to accelerate back to speed because of that 38% quicker loss in speed, I think you'll find using "N" for ICE-ON coasting to be far better overall FE than "D". Before Wayne had me do those test, all I used was "D" coasting for P&G, my mileage went way up from that, on roads over 40mph and during warm up using "N". One other point to make, tapping the brake pedal in "N" will shut down the ICE at 40mph and below to 6mph if you want it to. I do this alot when the regen is to hot to shut it off the ICE, and for a smoother coast without going to "L".

    The goal here is not a 70mpg tank, because that would be out of my reach with my present bag of tricks. But when you get the chance on many of the roads you travel, these 70mpg tricks will improve your 30mpg tanks for sure.

    BTW Green FEH, the SG is a great way to impove you FE also. Thanks again for your support.

  19. Green FEH

    Green FEH Member


    I don’t know what the exact FE was from the techniques described above, but when I dropped the FEH off at the dealership, I had used half a tank and was over 39 mpg (energy/nav display). The dealership did a wonderful job of fixing everything, but the half tank average was down to 35 mpg when I picked up the FEH. Sitting in traffic with the ICE cycling, I was losing 0.1 to 0.2 mpg each cycle and figured it won’t hurt to try something different. Trying the techniques described above, I arrived at home (about a 50 mile trip) at 36.5 mpg. I’m convinced it’s helping to recover from the hit at the dealership.
  20. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Green FEH, that patent was an excellent find. Up till now, I thought neutral was a neutral state of the of the traction motor and it still turned with the wheels. Neutral is a combination of a disconect joint which prevents a lock up of the wheels from motor freeze and other safety problems. That patent is on my favorites now and it will lead me and others to more Ford patents. Thank you very much!

    Now, I just need to fine out why coasting in "N" with ICE running was 2% better than ICE-OFF. It may have been the reduction in speed going ICE-OFF at 40mph, and not taking any load off the gear set which is disconected in "N". This has got to be the same in the Toyotas, and "N" coasting is better for them also. Someone needs to test those hybrids!


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