31mpg HCHII going in for work...fingers crossed

Discussion in 'Honda Hybrids' started by ematzen, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    Well, I wish you luck! H
  2. Sledge

    Sledge I like owls with captions

    Not really gloating. Just got tired of Honda's excuses. :mad:

    My last three tanks are all in the 53-54 mpg range. Nothing spectacular but over EPA so I'm happy enough :)

    I liked the HCH2 better as a car. I preferred the smaller size and tighter handling. Not that the TP3 is bad. Just that if I had a choice between a brand new 2k6 HCH2 with the original hybrid control software and a TP3 IV, I'd choose the HCH2. Thaty being said, such a vehicle no longer exists so my choices dwindle from 2 to 1.
  3. ematzen

    ematzen Well-Known Member

    Ok, so the car went in two weeks ago for the 2nd snapshot. No information from Honda NA. They are not following up with the dealership. I called Honda NA, and was very clear that I wanted to know what is going on with my case. This too has taken 2 weeks, and the Honda NA customer service still doesn't understand what the problem is, mostly because they don't speak with the Honda NA tech support folks.

    I got a call from the general manager of the dealership, apologizing for the bad service they had been giving me, apparently because Honda NA called to reprimand them. Through this whole process, I have been clear with everyone that the dealership is bending over backwards for me, trying to get this problem solved. I told the general manager that I have no beef with the dealership, and think they are treating me great. The problem isn't fixed, but the dealership isn't giving up. I will remain happy with the dealership until they give up. The General Manager told me he would take up the issue with the Honda NA area rep today. We'll see.

    Communication is horrible. Honda NA's customer service is incompetent. Very friendly, but incompetent. Apparently the next step will be to have a Honda NA tech come out and examine the car, after 4 examinations by the dealer, and the determination that something is wrong. We're going on almost 20 days of someone at Honda having my car (not contiguous days). So far, everyone is nice, and I am nice back. But I will NEVER buy a Honda again.

    So...I'll keep you informed about what happens.
  4. jmelson

    jmelson Well-Known Member

    Whew, this is SCARY stuff! Maybe you need to get a photo or copy the newspaper page when the guy with the lemon Lincoln Continental drove it onto the lawn of the Ford corporate headquarters and set it afire and send it to somebody at HA! Actually, maybe you
    need to check in with your state's attorney general and see what the lemon laws are where you live. This is sounding like it may qualify under some lemon laws.

    As the fleet of HCH's age, they are going to have to deal with these situations properly, or they are going to get the kind of black eye that Toyota is still reeling from.
    Maybe this is a calculated strategy to kill their hybrid line, so they can say that people just don't want to buy them. Reports from Canada seem to feed that kind of attitude at Honda.

    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    I wonder how the story would have changed, had this been a first generation Civic Hybrid, with an out-of-warranty battery. I too think this is going to leave Honda with a "shiner". We've been Honda consumers for over 30 years now, but in light of this sort of nonsense I'm not sure what our next move will be.
  6. ematzen

    ematzen Well-Known Member

    Interesting update, perhaps why Honda is dragging their feet. My HCH battery seems to have improved. Still exhibits problems, but not as frequent. I have been driving it a lot more lately (about 60 miles a day). Still bad fuel economy (35mpg), still recals when I first start the car in the morning, SOC still jumps to the top quickly. But the recal only occurs now in the morning, not after being parked in the parking lot all day, like it used to. Haven't left it parked for a few days to assess if the conventional starter starts the car as it used to (and was documented as such three times by the dealer). Will be parking at the airport for a few days. Will see then.

    Perhaps it is because the weather has been cool here in SoCal. Or maybe there is merit to the software update.

  7. jmelson

    jmelson Well-Known Member

    Yes, this may have a LOT to do with it. I got a software update last November that didn't seem to have much effect until I started using the air conditioning. When the A/C is used, it has a horrible effect on state of charge and economy. Last year, I saw no such effect, just a slight reduction in economy, which seemed normal.

    This summer, however, the SOC just stayed at 4 bars, so it was impossible to
    use SAHM or many other high-mileage techniques, I got almost daily recalibrations, and the mileage dropped to about 42. As soon as it got cool enough to turn off the A/C, the SOC popped back to 6-7, the recals stopped, SAHM was again possible, and I have been getting 56-62 MPG on the same commute. I could probably hold it right about 60 if other family members didn't use the car.

    I have to think something they did in this software update last year really fouled up battery management when the A/C is used. You might have the same going on on yours.

    I will likely be getting the latest update in a couple weeks at the next service.

  8. ematzen

    ematzen Well-Known Member

    Got a call from Honda NA today informing me that they will be replacing the IMA battery. They were surprised that the dealer did not contact me yet. I have a call into them now. Although it is clear that the right hand at Honda NA doesn't know what the left hand is doing, hopefully they have their ducks in a row with this phone call to me.

    All in all, if it's true, it's good news. I'll keep you informed.

  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    HI FIVE!

  10. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Fantastic news! I'm sure you'll be feeling much greater peace of mind after the repair work is completed. :)
  11. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    ... and hopefully get MUCH more than 31 mpg.
  12. jmelson

    jmelson Well-Known Member

    Sheesh! What a TORTURE! I can't believe they put you through the wringer like this!
    I would think one time of the car having good SOC on Friday and cranking on the 12 V battery on Monday OUGHT to be plenty of sign of a major failure. Could be some other component in the battery management system that was draining the battery, but clearly something was bad and needed to be replaced, and it was the dealer's duty (with Honda consulting as necessary) to diagnose and repair it.

    Good luck, and keep all your records!

  13. ematzen

    ematzen Well-Known Member

    It's confirmed. They are replacing it next week. Hopefully it will do the trick. I can't speak highly enough of this dealership. Through the whole process they were friendly, helpful and professional. Honda NA is another story.

    I'll let you know if I see improvement. Anything else you think I should have done when the car is in the shop to improve fe?

  14. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    It will improve until you get another week cell in the pack. Look after the IMA by keeping a comfortable temp. in the cabin and it may give you many years? of good service. H
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    You did get the lastest software update? I think it really smells that your 12 volt is called on to start the car and still you get no IMA warning light. And the bigger stink behind this is corporate Honda.
  16. ematzen

    ematzen Well-Known Member

    Yup, I did get the latest update. I do think the latest update improved the situation, but it didn't fix it. Still cranked with the 12v and SOC still dropped every time I started the car. I'll let you know how it performs after the IMA replacement. This process has made me very wary of Honda corporate, but I do understand where they are coming from. No one wants to admit an expensive mistake, though they should know that customer loyalty is more valuable in the long run than the savings incurred by a short-term strategy.

  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 2010 Prius (CAN Touring) Staff Member

    I can't help but think that one factor of the update might be to reduce situations that will trigger the IMA warning light. This would likely be shuffled in with an array of other parameter adjustments, in such a way that it's hard to prove. And the IMA light is part of the Honda mantra: "no warning light, no battery replacement".

    As you say, there's a lot of money involved. Albeit, a lot less money than if this was say a Toyota Prius problem, LOL. If there's a big monetary advantage to a little tweek of the software...

    And I concur regarding the customer loyalty issue. We've bought Honda exclusively since our first 1981 Civic. It takes a lot of negative effort to budge loyal customers, but Honda seems up to the task.

    Geesh, I guess I'm on my soapbox again, sorry.

    Anyway, we test drove a 2010 Prius last Tuesday night. Very mixed impressions, a lot of very different controls, a bit of a learning curve on that car. Still, I was impressed when we pulled back into the dealership to see it climbing grade at low speed in pure battery mode.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2010
  18. ematzen

    ematzen Well-Known Member

    IMA was replaced today: "Corrective Action: Removed and replaced IMA Battery 684 W 1 1D100-RMX-305RM IMA Battery Assy"

    Hopefully this takes care of it. I'll let you know how it's running.

  19. Jess

    Jess Well-Known Member

    How's it running so far ematzen? Does it still start with the 12v?

  20. ematzen

    ematzen Well-Known Member

    Yup. All better as far as battery management, because the battery functions as the battery should. However, fuel economy still isn't great. City driving is really in the 35-38mpg range. With the freeway I struggle to be above 40mpg. However, it is a dramatic improvement in functionality and safety to have a working battery.


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