Discussion in 'Honda Hybrids' started by psyshack, Oct 20, 2009.

  1. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    This is normal for the Honda CVT crappy tranny psyshack. It hasn't harmed mine in three years. It only does this during cold weather or around freezing. Mind you I had to change the oil at around 20,000 miles. Cheers;Hal
  2. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    Normal just proves my point. And Honda wonders why they don't sell more of these cars. :eek:

    Harold,,,, can you make yours fake shift on command in the colder temps and fully warmed up? Will it SAMBA for you? Can you put it in super hwy mode at will? How does the tranny act after you have driven 50 or 60 miles in cool to colder temps fully warmed up, hop out of the car and go take a whiz and come back and take off. Ours still bucks like a Wal-Mart go-cart after warmed up.

    I still have not got my full statement from the dealer about all the warranty work that was done on the car before x-mas when there so called puter system was down, but on record. I wonder if the flash and some of the trim on the new components is a result of the HCHII civil action over mpg that was settled at that time. I had never complained about the grid lock stop and go city or urban mpg. Nothing for me to do 60 mpg in it with nothing more than good throttle control and forethought in warm weather. But getting 80 mpg city driving in a very hilly old school messed up arkie town and country side was shocking as hell with crappy hwy mpg. So what changed? I bet Honda will never tell unless you put a lawyer on them.

    But I can tell you right now! Mazda would tell me! Dealer support at my local Mazda dealer is wonderful. They even logged and recorded the two basic warranty repairs I did on my 3. Those would be adjusting a motor mount and replacing a bearing in the alternator. Both repairs were not worth my time to take it to a dealer. If you join the local Mazda club the dealer sponsors several meets every year at the dealer and they are open shop meets. You can put your Mazda on a rack and align the car your self with a factory tech's help if needed, change your oil, do anything you want to your car with dealer support. Plus 25% off dealer parts and the parts dept. is open just for you. You want Mazda Speed parts you buy at a discount and install with there tools and shop or watch a tech do it free of charge. And it does not matter what brand car you own. If you are a member of the Mazda club bring your supply's and you can work on your Merc, BMW, Chevy or Yugo. My brother never miss's a meet and he owns a Fiat and two Yotas and is a member of the local Mazda club. :) The dealer pays my dues because I'm a mpg guy that knows how to also wring my 3 out.

    Show me a Honda dealer or club that cares that much about the owners and cars. When i pop into my Mazda dealer they ask how I'm fixed for oil filters, air filters and cabin air filters. I got cabin air filters for free last time I was in.

    Fact is I can get good mpg out of any car I drive.... Now the chore is to get rid of the craptastic HCHII and get a MZ6 with awesome support. :) I just need to catch this dealer right to make it happen..... :)

    Screw Honda and Yota with the big head........ They care not one bit for the enthusiast or owner..... and this coming from a man that really wanted a CR-Z. A fit coupe for Christ sakes,,, how lame. It should have been the next Insight,,, what idiots...... There cars, and dealers are as lame as there once great motorcycles. Yamaha now thumps Honda on two wheels in every class with better dealers. :)
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2009
  3. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Hard to believe that Honda could make something so bad.

    The transmission makes me think of the old minibike and lawnmower "transmissions"(50's-60's)-the ones with the pulley that got smaller when the RPMS went up, so the blade or the wheels was engaged-Except, those things actually worked.

  4. msantos

    msantos Eco Accelerometrist

    Hi Jeff;

    And this is where I step in... again. :(

    The ability to fake shift in the colder ambient temps is not a function of the CVT so blaming the circumstantial absence of the feature on this component is neither fair nor accurate.

    Samba is an instrumented anomaly and not evidence of anything that is repeatable or sustainable for many folks. Besides, this anomaly only appears when stage 4 warm-up is reached and since the HCH-II has a temperature transition table that is driven by the outside air temp, the full engine warm-up will occur at higher temps when OAT is low. This too is part of the governance parameters and not an operational limitation of the CVT. The ability to evoke SAHM is also subject to the same governance.

    Hi Charlie and all;

    My 2006 HCH-II is a living example of what a smooth and reliable vehicle should look and drive like. The 2007 HCH that I had for 2+ years was equally as flawless... and this is with bone cracking and truly harsh winter driving over several winters that often last 4-6 months at a time. Did I mention that the HCH-II is marginally superior to a gen 2 Prius in behavior and abilities when driven in harsh winter conditions? I'm still evaluating my Gen III Prius and I will be reporting on this one soon.

    And just to make sure that what I just said, is not a convenient error or exaggeration, the other 70+ HCH-II's on a local fleet whose progress I loosely follow appear to be trending equally as well. ;)

    But, just as Jeff will absolutely hate the latest Honda CVT's (and he's got that right based on his own experience, knowledge and expectations of the vehicle), I and others who also have owned these cars for a much longer time, simply love it !!!
    • We love it for the seamless and smooth application of power to the wheels (an absolute bonus in winter driving).
    • We love it for the low rpm and resulting low engine noise it affords at steady state driving.
    • And finally, because unlike any other type of automatic transmission it is a critical and very important component in the HCH-II's ability to produce excellent highway MPGs.
    • Did I mention that the latest Gen CVT's are actually statistically more reliable than the 5 speeds AT's Honda sells in some of its non-hybrid models? Hummm...
    Yes, this transmission is not perfect but the latest CVTs are proving to be very dependable especially when they are properly maintained. This is in stark contrast to the reliability of the Gen 1 CVT's which for lack of a better word, was problematic and down-right scary if not properly maintained.

    With this said, the CVT (and most CVT like transmissions for that matter) will be despised by folks who enjoy cars from a different perspective. Implicitly, this will make cars that implement such transmissions the least exciting and downright dull to drive. No zoom-zoom here, that's for sure.
    In this context, I accept the criticism with a broad and happy smile. But what I cannot accept is the generalization that this transmission is crap and bad. That is not only statistically incorrect but also in defiance of the experience of the broader HCH-II community, not to mention my own.

    And no, the sales of these cars are not being hindered by the CVT transmission but rather by a collection of factors most of us will recognize and agree with.


  5. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    I posted wrong concerning the driving dynamics... concerning the transmission. I am sorry. What struck me as very odd is prewreck and warranty work the car operated 180 degrees diff. Even in cool to cold weather. Yes we had a frosty morning before the wreck. It's like with all the new hardware and code the car has done a 180. City mpg is easy and hwy mpg is awful now. Couple that with the moronic slow engagement of the transmission when cold or hot now its a fail fail fail. A otherwise good car ruined by a trash cheap transmission. The only thing it does well is drop rpm at steady state low load. And now its hard to make it drop to the celler, rpm wise.

    After I posted lastnight my brother and his wife showed up in the PII. I drove it around town with his wife following me in the HCHII. I tried to get my brother to drive the Honda. He would have nothing to do with it nor does he drive the PII. She complained of the driving dynamics of the HCHII and it seemed to stem from the transmission. I did almost get stuck in some snow in the PII while she motored right around me in the Civic laughing at me and her car. And it gave her 60 mpg in a 10 mile loop we did while I could only muster 48 mpg in the PII. She too noticed the tranny lurching, unloading reengagement. And was very suprised by it's ill mannors.

    Then throw in the 180 degree flip flop in mpg. Leaves me very confused and not trusting of Honda at all..... Is the new flop in mpg result of efforts on Honda's part to increase city mpg in the hands of otherwise stupid people that have complained about the HCHII city ablity's? I haven't a clue myself. And it's hwy mpg seems to have went way down and effort has increase'd on the drives part to bring it up. I would think over all weather in this case is nill and void.

  6. Kacey Green

    Kacey Green Well-Known Member

    mine did some weird things in the cold, really cold for me in IL and KY. There were few instances where it seemed the start clutch was taking it's sweet time on th first start of a trip, usually with the car pointed uphill.
  7. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    It will be interesting to see what the tranny does with the really cold temps we will have here the next few days. It's still lurching at start up and will do so for 40 miles anytime you stop. Leave it in D and it seems like it disengauges if it does not go into auto stop. The car is so good except for the CVT and or it's controls. The dealers claim all the HCHII's do this and other strange stuff concerning the CVT's esp. in the cold. but seeing there are not near as many around as there was even a year ago. It's hard to find a local owner to chat with about this stuff.

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