Michelin Energy Saver A/S HCH-II

Discussion in 'Honda Hybrids' started by ioverholt, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. pcope

    pcope Well-Known Member

    I know this thread is a bit old, but I'm all-of-a-sudden shopping for replacement tires on my 2008 HCH and could use some advice. For a good 3-season tire (with lots of rain), how would the Michelin Energy Saver A/S compare with the Michelin HydroEdge or the Michelin Pilot Exalto? I was reading through earlier threads and found good reports on all three-- I checked out Tire Rack's comparisons, and the HydroEdge scored higher in customer ratings, but the Energy Saver is too new (I guess) to have been reviewed. Any suggestions?

    thanks

    Philip
     
  2. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    I would maybe give the edge to the Hydro Edge for performance driving. I have these on my CR-V and really like them.[HE] they do give off a bit of noise thou.. My next tires for my HCH 2 will be Energy Savers.:Banane26:
    cheers;

    H
     
  3. Jess

    Jess Well-Known Member

    I have about 1300 miles on my Energy Savers. They have not decreased my fuel efficiency at all and I foresee them actually increasing it as they break in more. What I do love about them is how quiet they are!

    Jess
     
  4. pcope

    pcope Well-Known Member

    thanks, guys; the quiet sounds nice! What about performance in the wet? Do you think the Hydro Edge have anything to offer over the Energy Savers, aside from the name?

    Philip
     
  5. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    FWIW - Hydroedge and Energy Savers in direct comparison test -
    http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplay.jsp?ttid=121
    The Energy Saver seems to have a slightly shorter stopping distance and slightly lower wet cornering g-force. Dry braking and cornering has them in a dead heat.

    Wet weather performance is very subjective because the pavement material and condition largely determines how well the car handles. And any oily film on the road surface compounds the problem. That's why I value test charts like the ones in the link above - they use the same cars, same roads, same conditions, and provide raw numbers to examine.
     
  6. Jess

    Jess Well-Known Member

    The do well in wet weather, I guess. Haven't had a lot of wet weather lately. Anyway I don't find myself driving more than 40mph on my commutes. Not a lot of performance needed there. :D

    Jess
     
  7. pcope

    pcope Well-Known Member

    thanks for the feedback, all- and geeze, Maxx, that's a great website! Thanks-- I'd poked around the Tire Rack site and had found basic comparisons, but nothing like those charts. Bookmarks!

    Philip
     
  8. msantos

    msantos Eco Accelerometrist

    Hi Chris;

    This link contains exactly the type of comparison I was looking for. Thanks.
    In my books, the Michelin Energy Savers are a no-brainer and one that I would purchase in a heartbeat.

    Too bad my original LRR Dunlops still have much of their thread left. At this rate I am likely to keep them forever. :eek:


    Cheers;


    MSantos
     
  9. Bruce T

    Bruce T New Member

    The Dunlop SP-31s on my '09 Civic were a disappointment. They had 6/32" of center tread at 23,000 miles, but they had developed sidewall cracks and deep tread cracks. I was worried about safety, so based on the Tire Rack test, I bought the Bridgestone Ecopia EP100. It's too early to tell much about them, except that ride and mpg are slightly better.

    The tire dealer steered me away from the Michelin Energy Saver, claiming Michelin had not been meeting their treadwear ratings, 480 for the Michelin vs. 400 for Bridgestone. Yes, the salesman could have been misleading me, except the Michelins did cost more.

    Regardless, I'm thankful for Tire Rack's testing from Aug 2009. Consumer Reports just tested LRR tires, but only ranked them by braking, handling, etc. Most other Internet information is limited or outdated. I can't wait until the Feds and California release their test results.
     
  10. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    From the OP, how is the FE holding up on the swaps in HCH-II's and Prius'?

    TIA

    Wayne
     
  11. Jess

    Jess Well-Known Member

    I have about 1500 to 2000 miles on mine. I'm extremely pleased w/ my Energy Savers. My commute has shortened so it's not as easy to get the mileage I was getting, but anytime I do have to drive across town and back I'm in the upper 60's to lower 70's. And their so very quiet!

    Jess
     
  12. rhwinger

    rhwinger Well-Known Member

    I just ordered mine today. BTW, the $70 rebate has been discontinued. :-(

    Thanks for all your previous comments, they were very helpful in helping me reach my decision!

    Thanks,

    Bob
     
  13. Data_Ranger

    Data_Ranger Member

    I haven't had the luck or great experience everyone else has had with these tires. I have a 2008 with 55k.

    Using the stock tires I could easily average 46-48mph; however, ever since I mounted the Michelins, I am struggling to break over 40.0!!

    My inflation is set to 44 (max) which is also what the OEM max setting was.

    I haven't changed my driving style or my routes at all. Could this really be related to the tires or something else? The dealer gave me the typical "I've heard that before, you should stick with the OEM tires instead".

    Acceleration is sluggish and my RPMs are significantly higher when accelerating, for example from 60-65. I am actually hitting 4k RPM with the pedal slightly depressed to accelerate.

    Please help! Something can't be right. I know I can't be the only one with this problem, or if I am, something must be going on.:confused:
     
  14. Harold

    Harold Well-Known Member

    I would take the psi up another 10lbs. with the energy savers. Michelin are a very well made tire, in my estimation. Is there any chance your alignment may be out. Wouldn't hurt to check as your getting up there with the mileage. :) H
     
  15. Data_Ranger

    Data_Ranger Member

    I may have to give that a try. The alignment should be okay. I just took it in for scheduled maintenance after the tires were installed and the dealer is really good about performing checks on most aspects of the car.

    I took it to the dealer today and they noticed a very small leak on one of the tires where the valve stem connects via o-ring to the TPMS. It isn't significant enough to worry about at the moment. Besides, I just filled the tires this morning to 44 and filled the tank and reset my numbers - they were still dismal.

    I will have to check the air filter this weekend to rule out a clogged intake. I have the K&N on there and those can go forever without worry, but maybe something is jammed in there or I just have a large amount of buildup in a short period.

    What a bummer. I'm actually considering spending more money to go back to OEM tires.
     
  16. MaxxMPG

    MaxxMPG Hasta Lavista AAA-Vee Von't Be Bach

    Try to isolate whether the issue is tires/brakes/bearings/alignment or powertrain related. Get to around 50mph and shift to N and see how the car glides. If something is dragging it down - more than when you had the OEM tires, check wheel bearings, hung brake calipers, or alignment. Confirm that the parking brake assembly isn't stuck "on" even if the parking brake does not appear to be "on" from within the car.
    A 17% drop in FE and 4k rpm acceleration at part throttle means something is out of whack, and the Michelin tires don't sound like they're the root cause of the issue.
    If the car glides as well as before (or better) in neutral but not in drive, the issue is related to the transmission/final drive and not the tires or other "rolling" components.
     
  17. 06hch2

    06hch2 Well-Known Member

    if the car doesn't roll as easily from a stop when you take your foot off the brake, its the tires (assuming air pressure is same).
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  18. Data_Ranger

    Data_Ranger Member

    I tried what you suggested Maxx and it is difficult to tell when I shift to Neutral at highway speeds whether or not I decelerate any faster than before; I never really tried that so I don't have anything against which to compare. That said, however, when I tried it, my speed didn't seem to decrease any faster than what I would expect.

    I have noticed that gliding is extremely difficult lately. The moment I press the gas pedal to microadjust and balance out the charge/assist my mpg gauge drops from 100. It is very difficult to get it to glide for some reason, whereas previously I could glide all the time.

    I don't hear or smell anything, so I could probably rule out a brake rub or parking break issue. A bearing is always possible, but normally that has some amount of roughness or noise associated with it as well.

    Please keep trying to help!

    I really don't want to leave it over at the dealer while they play with 'what could be' and charge me a ton for labor. Besides, they are so focused on blaming the tires or my driving style they won't listen to anything else. I actually got a lecture about rolling resistance and car-specific OEM tires. He actually admitted to not knowing much about the Energy Savers and was surprised when I told him they were designed for hybrids.
     
  19. msantos

    msantos Eco Accelerometrist

    Hi Data_Ranger;

    So far and in the absence of more information, I am quite certain that the tires are not the problem, mostly because issues and reports like yours are not that uncommon. In any case, having the tires aired to 44 psi pretty much helps rule out the tires as the problem since that is the pressure even the lousiest non LLR tire begins to loosen up a bit too (and I've had the chance to "try" some really bad tire choices for the HCH-II). :(

    Anyway, at this point I would rather look at the typical culprits instead (don't exempt a combination of these either):
    • Engine Oil. If its not the recommended 0W20 oil you'll struggle a whole lot and instead of 2000 rpm or less, you'll get a much higher rpm even during "gentler" accelerations.
    • Wheel Alignment. Yes, these matter too. If the dealer did not do one upon the initial delivery of the vehicle then chances are that things could only have gotten worse since then. At best this is only making it worse for you.
    • 12V battery. Once again, I lost count of how many times a weak 12V battery was behind a struggle against poor FE... and as always the engine is always told to work harder when this one is in a state of deficit. Have that one checked - just for giggles at least.
    • How's the transmission doing? Particularly the state of the CVT fluid.Easy ramp ups in RPM without much power being produced is a definite incentive to look deeper into this area.
    • How does your electric power steering feel. Although not as common, a very small number have exhibited this and with a definite impact on engine RPM and FE on the account of a stressed 12V subsystem.
    • How long have you had the K&N filter in? Did you ever lube it and if so, did you let it drain and dry long enough? My main concern with these filters is what happens to the various upstream sensors and emissions as time goes by, especially if we allow these oils in.
    Cheers;

    MSantos
     
  20. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    To rule out dragging brakes, you can jack up each corner of the car and turn the wheels by hand. If one of them gives you more resistance, you've found the problem.
     

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