A few more details about Ford Truck’s upcoming 6.7L PowerStroke Diesel

Discussion in 'Articles' started by xcel, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    A few more details about Ford Truck’s upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke Diesel

    [​IMG] Reduced emissions at the forefront with improved_FE having the very highest priority. We were all but promised it will place a smile on our faces :)

    [fimg=left]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2010_Ford_F550_SuperDuty_-_XLT_CrewCabs.jpg[/fimg]Wayne Gerdes, Nathan Pauli and Mike Sefton - CleanMPG - Sept. 16, 2009

    2010 F-550 Super Duty’s at work.

    With the recent announcement that Ford is finalizing its next generation, in-house designed, 6.7L Power Stroke Turbo-diesel for inclusion in the 2011 Ford Super Duty lineup, interest from some CleanMPG members arose. Although we do not normally cover P/Us and SUVs due to their aggressive fuel consuming nature, those that truly need a powerful work truck for field work should find the next generation Power Stroke, code named Scorpion, within the Super Duty of their choice to be a reasonably cost effective and more importantly, a very fuel efficient workhorse. Not only will the new engine be capable of towing, hauling, pulling or moving anything a farmer, rancher, landscaper or field service worker would have ever considered, it will do so with less impact on the local and global environment than any previous Ford Super Duty offering.

    The 6.7L Power Strokes underlying advanced combustion control, emissions controls technologies and promised fuel economy improvements make this engine and the trucks it will propel a winner long before it has reached a consumers drive.

    A look back at Ford’s 6.0L Power Stroke

    Ford’s 2003 through 2005, 6.0L Power Stroke engines were somewhat of a black eye to both Ford’s “Built Ford Tough” reputation and its profitability in part due to an abnormally high number of warranty repairs from initial launch. Most of these problems came about due to the fact the engine was not designed and manufactured by Ford in-house but instead was outsourced from Navistar while Ford handled engine integration into the Super Duty chassis.

    By 2006, Ford’s aggressive attention to past warranty claims brought about changes to the engine and software controls turning the previously struggling 6.0L Power Stroke engine program around in dramatic fashion. In fact, the 6.0L went from one of Ford’s highest warranty claimed engines to the lowest of any engine, diesel or gas!

    CleanMPG had a sit down Q&A with Ford’s Diesel Engine Program Manager - Adam Gryglak and After Treatment Emissions Control Engineer, Chris Oberski earlier today. Additional details were offered although we still await some time behind the wheel with one of Ford’s all-new 6.7L Power Strokes sometime early next year.

    [fimg=right]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/2/Adam_Gryglak_Lead_Engineer.jpg[/fimg]Adam Gryglak - Large Diesel Engine Engineering Program Manager standing over the designed and built from a clean sheet, 6.7L Power Stroke Turbo-diesel.

    6.7L Power Stroke Q&A

    CMPG: Considering the 6.0L Power Stroke engine program, what has changed regarding durability modeling and testing to improve out of the box reliability for the upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke?

    Adam G.: The engine is now an entirely in-house design with many previous Ford of Europe diesel engineers in the development team improving upon the engine through lessons learned and reliability testing data right from the start. We also did a lot of marketing work to understand how customers use the trucks, and developed cycles to mimic their usage.


    CMPG: We noticed during the earlier presentation that the DPF was located at an unusual location at the end of the after treatment stream? How is it regenerated?

    Chris. O.: The F250/350 places the DPF at the end while the F450 on up will use a different configuration. A fifth post injection into the exhaust stream is used to regenerate the DPF with no other fuel lines to the DPF needed.

    The difference between the F250/350 and the 450 on up is loading factors dictating the SCR’s placement for optimum NOx conversion efficiency.


    CMPG: How are you avoiding oil dilution when using B20? Did you have to reduce oil change intervals?

    Adam G.: We performed extensive analysis and testing to determine when to time the post injection event to minimize oil dilution. The result is that we are not seeing dilution within the engine program's extensive testing and are anticipating a 7,500 mile change interval. B5, B10, and B20 are making inroads in several markets and we wanted to be ready for that.


    CMPG: Are you simulating aged after treatment testing by "cooking" the DOC/SCR/DPF or by on the road testing?

    Chris O.: We are doing both. Bench aging w/ high temps and beating emissions requirements with miles on the road.


    CMPG: Is the upcoming 6.7L Power Stroke design program just meeting the upcoming 2011 EPA emissions requirements or exceeding them soundly with either simulated or actual 120,000 mile testing?

    Chris O.: We are confident we will exceed all EPA emissions requirements but I cannot say more than that.


    CMPG: Few details were released about EGR in the earlier presentation. What cooling methods have you included?

    Adam G.: A dual cooling loop EGR is incorporated. One high temp at 90C and a low temp loop at 50C second.


    CMPG: You've got the tranny, fuel cooler, and aftercooler on the low temp side too, right?

    Adam G.: You've got it.


    CMPG: How are your two cores arranged at the front of the truck? Top/bottom? Front & back? Side & side? [In my head, I'm wondering about selective grill blocking]

    Adam G.: There are two separate cores at the front of the truck, but I can't give out any more detail than that just yet.


    CMPG: How do you warm up the low temp circuit? I know it takes a lot of fuel to get that extra coolant (mass) up to temp, and I thought I had read that you let the EGR bypass the cooler to help the intake warm up. Where does the heat come from to warm up that circuit?

    Adam G.: Good question. Chris, you want to take that one?

    Chris O.: When the engine's cold, we vary the timing of the injections to generate more heat in the exhaust. This helps raise the NOx conversion efficiency, but also supplies heat to the intake and low temp circuit via EGR.


    CMPG:That still doesn't tell me how the exhaust can simultaneously warm up the intake by bypassing the cooler, and warm up the cooler...

    CMPG: Do you have anything else to aid warmup? An intake heater?

    Adam G.: We've been able to get good cold weather performance without an intake air heater by using uncooled EGR and glow plugs that continue to operate while the engine is running.


    CMPG: What are you doing to protect the 6.7L from B20 or poor fuel quality gelling?

    Adam G.: We are using 2 filters, primary on the chassis and a second on the engine. A low pressure fuel switch via message center display will signal to the customer if fuel pressure is low.


    CMPG: Any problems with warming up fuel filters?

    Adam G. Not at all, you will be impressed. A Patent has been applied for to give more heat to the fuel but we cannot give any more details just yet.


    CMPG: A marketing question. Any chance for a smaller displacement light duty diesel in Ford’s near future?

    Adam G.: I simply cannot say...


    CMPG: Any FE improvements over the 6.0 and 6.4L Power Strokes thanks to the Injectors, sequential turbo, urea injection and control vs. loss due to back pressure and DPF regenerations?

    Adam G.: That is a good list (laughs). We improved overall fuel efficiency.


    CMPG: Better than 6.4 with light duty driving?

    Adam G.: We worked hard within the combustion system to keep particulates down and that helps to reduce regen frequencies. More will be revealed at the Texas State Fair next week.


    CMPG: Will there be an SAE paper coming next April?

    Adam G.: Yes there will be.


    CMPG (Nathan): About that FE... How does it compare to my current Duramax?

    Adam G.: I can guarantee that you will have a hard time getting the smile off your face after you drive the truck ;)


    Thank you Adam and Chris for your timely answers to our questions and Anne for setting up the Ford Teleconference.

    Ford 6.7L Super Duty

    [​IMG]
    External views

    [​IMG]
    F250/350 Super Duty – Aftertreatment Emissions Control layout​
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2010
  2. Sulfuric

    Sulfuric Well-Known Member

    Nice interview. CleanMPG getting some rep too as a proper news source now, we get interviews from real Ford people!!! High five.
     
  3. southerncannuck

    southerncannuck Well-Known Member

    I want to second Sulfuric's message. Geat interview. I hope they bring diesel to the light car market.
     
  4. pcs0snq

    pcs0snq Well-Known Member

    Have a few questions for you Wayne,

    The article went out of the way to mention 18" and 20" wheels. Did the tires have the same roll out and was this stock from Ford?

    This goes hand in hand with the low cruse RPM's. What did you measure at 60 or 65 as far as in 6th gear and converter locked up engine RPM's?

    What about the cost of the ammonia slush for the SCR?
    Any idea the cost per mile on that?

    Can you give some details on that test course, hills? etc

    Was good to see you take an interest in a HD truck like this. I enjoyed the write up.
     
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Paul:

    ___Glad to see your interest in the 2011 Ford Super Duty as well since it is an excellent truck with the 6.7L Power Stroke. With the 6.2L Gasser, not so much. All the HP of course but the FE is sub-par by comparison to the diesel.

    ___The tire sizes are as follows:
    • 245/75Rx17
    • 265/70Rx17

    • 275/65Rx18
    • 275/70Rx18

    • 275/65Rx20
    ___For RPM's at 60 mph, see the 2011 Ford Super Duty w/ the 6.7L Power Stroke Specifications. The R's calculated and seen on the tach at 60 mph was 1350 RPM.

    ___For DEF costs and such, see one of the last posts in the 2011 Ford Super Duty Press Launch thread.

    ___The Test course? The FE Challenge course or the RT local trip I took a few days ago?

    ___Thank you!

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  6. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Cambertoes:

    Welcome to CleanMPG!

    While the light duty 2011 F-Series (the F-150) will have the Atkinsonized 3.7L and the EcoBoosted 3.5L, I already know that even if they offer a slight bit more FE, they will never even come close to providing what that Super Duty's 6.7L Power Stroke provided. That was one tough SOB of a motor and I am glad you are enjoying yours.

    If I had the choice to take my family across the country in my wife’s Acura MDX or the 11 Ford Super Duty Crew Cab w/ the Power Stroke, I would pick the Ford P/U. It was more comfortable to drive imho. I would however like to have some form of DVD player installed to allow the passengers some entertainment while underway…

    Wayne
     
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi All:

    Due to the strong demand for F-Series pickup trucks, Ford is hiring 900 more at its Kansas City Assembly.

    Later today, Ford will be welcoming a third crew of 900 new hourly workers at its Kansas City Assembly Plant to meet surging customer demand for the Ford F-150.

    The additional production crew is Ford's first step in bringing more than 2,000 jobs to Kansas City Assembly Plant to meet growing truck demand and to launch production of the all-new Ford Transit van early next year.

    Over the past year, Ford announced it will increase capacity by 600,000 units in North America to meet surging demand for its cars, trucks and utilities.

    F-Series Demand
    • F-Series sales increased 22 percent from January to July 2013, compared to the same period last year

    • F-Series sales were at 60,449 in July, representing the best July sales month since 2006 and a 23 percent increase over 2012

    • Based on July U.S. sales results, F-Series sales now have increased for 24 consecutive months
    The additional jobs at Kansas City Assembly Plant come as Ford continues to retool and expand the facility through a $1.1 billion investment to ready for Transit production. Kansas City Assembly Plant has more than 250 suppliers nationally and more than 10 suppliers locally that will benefit from the addition of a third crew. When Transit production begins, close to 275 suppliers nationally and six suppliers locally will grow their business.

    Wayne
     
  8. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Wayne

    Why the pickup- roomier side to side than the MDX?
    Our 2003 Pilot-was a pretty decent road trip vehicle
    We managed to stuff 3 adults 2 leggy greyhounds- 2 bikes on hitch setup-2 ice chests
    and 4 of us-my at the time 220 lb son(185 now) Isis and Phoebe-would SLEEP enroute while wife drove-yeah full length sleeping(had to put plywood filler between 1st and 2nd row)

    Now the primitive 1998 Suburban-is MUCH more comfortable to travel in-because it is HUGE-and gets acceptable MPG 63-84 Mammal miles per gallon

    So is it the side to side increase in width that makes the HUGE Ford beat the MDX?

    We did have odd road noise with the Pilot-on certain road surfaces- some concrete etc-
    that was unexpected with a Honda-maybe it was soooo quiet otherwise we noticed the tire road noise??

    Yeah-your MDX- should be a better than average road trip vehicle??
     
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Charlie:

    I am beginning to hate the MDX as Marian continues to pour $'s into its repair. The last one was a coolant hose blew and took out the tranny. The local San Diego Acura dealership stated it warped the heads and would cost over $12K to fix. For a $7K car at best. Local shop took care of it for $2,400. Now it has a squeal and needs new brakes and rotors.

    It has been in CA for a year and a half and all four corners are either scraped or scratched and the side fenders are all scratched and messed up.

    An F-150/Super Duty in San Diego would be even more ridiculous in Southern California.

    We are going to look at a Passat TDI, Mazda6 in preps for the SKYACTIV-D and a Prius c later today in fact. My son has been driving the Prius PHEV back and forth to SDSU.

    Wayne
     
  10. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Hmmm
    Those Honda 5 speed ATs had some significant un-Honda like problems that took YEARS to fix
    I think we had some "RECALL" on the Pilot that added something that was supposed to spray trans fluid on one of the gear packs??? to make it less likely to fail??

    Warp heads from a spray of trans fluid??
    Hey it rains in S Cal-a little fluid warp heads?? WTF is that??
    Nice to see dealers are chiselers EVERYWHERE-

    We sold our 2003 Pilot at 44,000 miles because of $$ problems- got $16,000 for it- - sold T
    The Pilot-went to sister in law-160,000 miles-no big problems but maybe we were lucky

    It didn't get great mpg-not MUCH better than the mildly hyper miled blunt instrument GM big box on wheels-
    that was a surprise-maybe only 15% better inherent mpg-but it was AWD-didn't help mpg

    Can't really beat a Prius for mpg and reliability -can't be done-not if you do city driving.


    Oh-the Cruise TD I was reporting on-long 10,000 mile trip Canada west coast back to texas-was HIT AND run off road-wrong way drunk driver-I-40 east of Aburqurque (sic) ROLLED 3 TIMES- driver and passenger WALKED away-thanks to every airbag DEPLOYING
    Yeah-thanks to latest engineering-just sore-
    It was getting about 50 mpg
    Smallish cars can be pretty safe if well engineered-guessing it is 3300 lbs or so-not exactly small I guess.
     

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