Reality check: Hybrid or all-electric?

Discussion in 'PHEV or Plug-in Hybrid Electric Vehicle' started by Right Lane Cruiser, Sep 10, 2009.

  1. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    [​IMG] Plug-in cars closer to market, but they still face obstacles.

    [FIMG=LEFT]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/2010_Toyota_Prius-III1.jpg[/FIMG]Jim Redden - THEOUTLOOKONLINE - September 10, 2009

    A good question. How many Americans could get away with using a 100mi AER vehicle for over 95% of their travel? I know I could. --Ed.

    Does the Toyota Prius have a future?

    Given the hype about all-electric cars, it seems reasonable to ask whether anyone still will be interested in gas-electric hybrids in a few years. Although the 2010 Prius gets more than 50 miles a gallon, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency recently rated the upcoming Chevrolet Volt at the equivalent of 230 miles per gallon – more than four times the Toyota’s gas mileage.

    Interest in electric cars is especially strong in Oregon, one of five states chosen to test the Leaf, Nissan’s plug-in electric car that reportedly will go 100 miles before needing to be recharged. The test is scheduled to begin in the Portland area as early as fall 2010, then spread to Eugene, Salem and Corvallis if successful. The state also is replacing its $1,500 tax credit for hybrid cars with an equal one for all-electric cars on Jan. 1.

    But if Toyota is worried, it isn’t showing it. The Japanese manufacturer recently restyled and upgraded the Prius, making the new model larger, more powerful and more economical.

    Toyota also is about to release an all-new gasoline-electric hybrid – the Lexus HS250h, a luxury sedan with a... [RM]http://www.theoutlookonline.com/sustainable/story.php?story_id=125201798882699500[/RM]
     
  2. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Super Moderator Staff Member

    As a two-car family we wouldn't do 2 EV unless they can seriously improve the range. In Maine there's too much chance of needing to commute 2 x 75 miles in the future. Maybe we could do PHEV + EV. (Of course we're not even 1 HEV yet but I'm hoping we will be by the end of the year :D)

    Personally I see the market for longer-range Li-ion PHEV being the big thing: I'm really looking forward to seeing the results from the 2011 Li-ion PHEV Priuses. Less for the P but more for the effect of the improved battery on the H fuel economy.
     
  3. Doofus McFancyPants

    Doofus McFancyPants Well-Known Member

    For what i need, Electric would cover 90% of my needs ( as long as i can carry 4 people in it)
    Daily commute to work + ocassional family trip or times when Wife's car is in shop.

    If people could actually look at there NEEDS objectively, this would be the VAST majority of the case.

    Everyone is to concerned with the WHAT IF items.
    WHAT IF i need to drive across the contry - an electric cannot do it.
    WHAT IF i need to haul 3000 lbs of lumber for some reason - an electric cannot do it

    as i drive my cars into the ground - i will not have to worry for a while yet.
     
  4. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    I've always thought the idea of towable generators was a very simple answer to this problem. Simply spec the car to tow 500 lbs, then build a 500 lb generator that would charge you while driving. If you thought you might exceed your EV range for the day, hook up your trailer.

    From the Tesla Forum:
    [​IMG]

    I particularly like the RAV 4 one:
    [​IMG]

    Much better idea than mounting the generator under the hood and force people to drive it around where ever they go. Another nice feature is that it could charge the pack while you were eating lunch on the road or taking a rest stop.

    11011011
     
  5. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    ^-__That is what I want for my EV! :D
     
  6. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    It's gonna be a very long time before EVs pose a threat to HEVs, because they really serve different purposes IMO. Full steam ahead, Toyota.
     
  7. Shiba3420

    Shiba3420 Well-Known Member

    Not only do you not have to store/haul the generator, but you don't have to haul the fuel. And without the need for a transaxel on 4wd, vehicles could be modified to provide considerably more room for their size that even internal generator style vehicles.

    Guess it would be an OEREV, Option Extended Range Electric Vehicle.
     
  8. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    I'd love to have a BEV with an auxiliary generator trailer, as long as the trailer is fairly compact (my old house has no garage and an extremely small driveway). It probably won't be the most efficient setup out there -- if the RAV4EV is any example, you might expect about 3x the energy consumption vs. all electric mode -- but in that sense shouldn't be worse than any other series hybrid such as the Volt or Fisker Karma.

    What I'd need in an auxiliary trailer is the ability to mount bikes and, if the EV pulling it is very limited in cargo space, possibly also a cargo box on top. Looks like the plastic/fiberglass shells pictured above would require substantial beefing up to permit that, though it should be doable. Most of my roadtrips include bikes but the trailer would prevent my use of a hitch mounted bike rack, and obviously I want to avoid putting gear on the roof if at all possible. Once you put stuff on the roof of the EV pulling the trailer, I'd bet the fuel economy would be lower than I'd get driving the TDI or a hybrid with bikes on the back.

    If the combined length exceeds 20' we'll pay an extra charge when we take the ferry to our family's island getaway, where parking with a trailer would be really tight to boot, but I think we'd live with those drawbacks if we actually had the chance to run a setup like this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2009
  9. Dan

    Dan KiloTanked in post 153451

    More info on the two trailers pictured. Both made by AC Propulsions.

    Weight: 350 lbs.
    Displacement: 500cc Kawasaki motorcycle engine.
    Peek Output: 20 kW.
    Tank Capacity: 9.5 gal
    Sustainable Serialized Highway MPG: 30+ MPG
    Range: 285+ miles.

    A funny note. A Rav4 EV with trailer got better MPG than a ICE based Rav4.

    11011011
     
  10. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Thanks for the link, Dan! I couldn't remember where I'd seen that before and it was nice to read/view it again. :)

    Looks like a customized cable interface in the back?
     

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