Discussion in 'Start Your Journey Here' started by alvaro84, Aug 17, 2009.
Is your bike spec'd to take E85?? I hope you don't do any damage.
I'm not really afraid of this one tank of ~30% ethanol. I'll do more P&G because surging is not fun and can't be good for anything. But the components and materials should handle even pure E85, even if she's not a flex-fuel vehicle by design. After 2000 it's normal to have alcohol content in gasoline so AFAIK every single vehicle since then is designed with at least a bit of ethanol in mind (umm... I'm not saying they're drunk when design them ). It's just a bigger bit. May not be that good, but she'll endure it - she's a tough pro anyway
Lately quite a few are trying E85 here in Hungary - even one of my colleagues. He's riding a Honda Varadero that has considerably bigger appetite than an F650 and went for the cheaper E85 because of it. He re-jetted his Varadero though and uses straight E85.
Well, I got rid of that alcoholic concoction (and 2 more tanks of the normal 95 octane - these are RON numbers) and using gasoline again is like getting a whole new bike... she CAN go slow, accelerates vigorously and can keep steady speed without stuttering...
Now I have a dilemma.
We have 2 bikes - Teresa, my BMW, and Ciliegia, which is shiNIN's Hyosung GV250.
Now she finally got her riding license and can ride Ciliegia on her own right. I'm happy about it, but I don't know how should I add Ciliegia to our garage... shiNIN's regged here and Ciliegia is her bike, but during the last 8000kms it was me who was driving (except her riding lessons).
If we add Ciliegia to shiNIN's 'garage', my numbers will distort her FE results (and vice versa).
If we halve the poor bike and add the first 8000km to my garage then our collection of kms will be split too
So I don't know what to do yet
As long as you record her tanks, you are doing a service to everyone that watches the bikes FE figures! If you want to mix hers and yours, that is fine or begin a new bike just for her and she can see how she is doing vs. how you did.
In any case, thanks for the ride reports and detailed FE techniques. Bikes are just so much more fun than the cages, aren’t they
They certainly are (I don't have any cages though - maybe later, for really bad weather, and carrying more than 2 people and/or heavy things...) - and looking at your review logs I'm curious what kind of FE you could do with our bikes. Those numbers you made with the tested 250s are great (do you have posts/reviews where you go into the details of your techniques?), and it would be even greater to sustain them for at least tens of thousands of kms/miles (I'm really planning on going into the six digit domain, if the proper fuel will be available for a few more years)...
Now I got a much better tank.
We went on a few 2-bike rides in the vicinity on the top of my normal commute. Our distances are still shorter than my old commute, but we're riding easy and I P&G pretty much again, it can even make slow rides more fun (like it used to keep me awake on the freeway after night shifts).
So now I'm well under 3l/100km and over 80mpgUS again (2.84l/82.9mpgUS)
I'm working on my Forced DFCO + Switch Start technique on downhills that would need heavy braking otherwise. It seems that Teresa doesn't go DFCO that easy (at least not at low revs) so I need to use the killswitch. And bump starts are anything but smooth with her so it's good to start the engine while it's connected to the wheels. If I depress the clutch in the same time the engine starts smoothly and keeps running. I hope it doesn't hurt the catalytic converter more than a normal DFCO.
Next week it's time to get the bikes serviced, they're about to reach 50,000 and 15,000km respectively and Ciliegia needs new chain/sprockets (maybe taller gears for lower highway revs?) and a weatherproof topcase to replace those badly worn saddlebags...
This much more P&G came to fruition today - it was well over 400km when the reserve light came off, giving a 2.68l/100km average for this tank. What's more, it includes an oil change too, because yesterday she reached:
I had my usual cross-country trip (family and official matter again, more to come), 2-up with lugagge again (mountain roads and ~200km of freeway one way, mostly flat main road back, with some 4-lane stages and ~90km freeway again). I've already learned that cruising at ~100km/h (62mph) with some faster overtaking is OK with Teresa if I want to get there in a reasonable time with reasonable FE (last time I got 3.02l/100km (78mpgUS) when I took care of the freeway stage at this speed and a 3.25l/100km (72mpgUS) even with a much faster (120-130km/h) segment).
This time I've learned how much strong head/sidewind can deteriorate my FE (OK, I rode pretty much in strong wind in the past, but not this much at once). Last average is 3.54l/100km (66.6mpgUS).
Next one (including the way back) will be much better, I already know it can't be worse than 3.11l (~75.7mpgUS). Wind counts very much.
Note: I had to replace my lowbeam headlight in a freeway stop. I got the bulb with Teresa so it lasted somewhere between 29k and 67k kms.
edit. the final avg for this tank is 3.08l/100km (76.4 mpgUS) - much better than the previous one...
You are doing spectacular on the BMW 650! The best I could get out of the 800 GS was an 80 mpg segment and the 1200’s were a lot lower with the 1200 GS’ best at just 61 mpgUS!
I hope you were following the 1200 GS and GS Adventure thread. Harry is not much of a fuel efficient rider but he is a very safe one so that makes up for it
Over the course of 1,600 miles, the GS Adventure pulled 47.2 mpgUS while the 1200 GS pulled 57.4 over the ~ same distance.
The Yamaha WR250X allowed 102.7 mpgUS over two tanks adn 433 miles. I am planning an across the US ride back to LA later this month to see if that can be held over the distance. More than likely, it will come in around 90 mpg once complete but I cannot complain for a very quick FI 250 with a top speed near 90 mph.
In any case, to see 80 and 90 + mpg tanks out of your 650 means you are doing very well and I would love to see you in action someday! If I ever get to Hungry, we’ll have to go for a ride
I'm looking forward For me you make the impression of a very experienced hypermiler, I'd probably learn something new
I don't really like to go with other riders, they usually either do too unreasonable things or I'll bother them with my generally slower pace (I try to keep my speed changes under control when I'm with company ).
I've already met a few 'easy' riders whose style I can adapt pretty well and get good averages though P&G does the best when the pace is too slow even for shifting to 5th (under ~70km/h, 45mph). You can see another 90mpgUS tank in my log lately, that was full of coasting at sub-5th speeds It seems that large deltas are of a great benefit. I can get them as long as I'm faster than shiNIN if we're riding together
We just got back from Slovenia anyway. I think I'll write about it in the vacation forum, as soon as I get my thoughts together and create both the English and Hungarion versions. I may need a blog. Maybe not.
I had to combine the last 3 tanks in the log though, because
- I lost the fuel light again and only repaired it after we reached Bled
- I filled Teresa whenever Ciliegia needed a refill and the smaller bike does somewhat worse at the superslab (while in clever city driving it most probably shines and they're even at lower highway speeds).
I've entered all the data I have into Ciliegia's log the last night.
I hope I did not make (m)any mistake(s)...
I've modified my sig too too - just keep in mind that Ciliegia is ridden by shiNIN lately (and was ridden by her before too, when learning)
So a picture of both:
We removed the flimsy crashbars (once they damaged the tank!) and the saddlebags (they could not stand the everchanging weather) and got a GIVI topcase since then. Now we have 2 topcases of the same system, it was really convenient when I bought the new one...
edit. no "EPA" data for Ciliegia as I don't have the faintest idea if an official guess for FE of Hyosung motorcycles does even exist In the case of Teresa they're still not City/Hwy numbers, but they're two official numbers at least
An up again for my topic... I finally got myself to equip the windshield adjusting brackets on Teresa and try to estimate how it affects my glides. I feel aero a bit worse now, but I can't say for sure because it's variably windy today, sidewind and maybe some tailwind. Plus my main 'coast testing' downhill road is protected by trees and I did not see the leaves move anywhere. I'll test it some more. For now my speed fell a bit more quickly than usual there.
(On a sidenote: I'm may be a bit biased here by the fact that I got a HUGE gap under the windshield after rising it by the adjuster brackets)
I filled up this afternoon without spilling it, 14.66l the tripmeter showed 554.4km now, just 2.2km shorter than my longest tank (2.64l/100km, somewhat worse than 127km ago - back then it was 2.6l/100km, slightly over 90mpgUS. Weather cooled down by at least 10C degrees since then, it may be able to cause such difference if nothing else changes).
And now I absolutely HAVE TO get a new battery for Ciliegia. It's been weak for a while, but today the two of us couldn't start it no matter how hard we tried Next morning I stay in the town and get one (and a charger) when I wake up. So still no info about the last tank
I save this post here from the actual week topic of Daily Grind...
Had a hard ride on our family visit to the East. The route was ~400km there and ~350km back. The first tank that contained 1-up commute too became 3.19l/100km for 398.6km; the second one that entirely consists of 2-up, mostly main roads and freeways became 3.41l/100km for 402.8km. This time I wasn't fast at all and handled the throttle with extreme care. Not like I had an egg under it (which can be hardly interpreted in the case of motorcycles) but like it was an egg itself... apparently it doesn't help at all compared to a brisker, more P&G'y style. And the story:
I may told you before that the rear drive belt sprocket became quite worn and I ordered the part from ebay to replace it. It was in... early September? Now, either the Customs Office is sitting on it or a kind postman stole it, but I still haven't got it. According to the USPS it arrived to Hungary on the 16th of September...
It did not cause any real problems - so far. OK, it looked worn, but that's all. But on Friday, it lost a tooth. Better, 4 teeth. We kept an eye on it, praying to get home, and we did. In the meantime we met the worst road we've ever seen (once it was 1.5m wide and muddy then it became wider but consisted mostly of potholes - and it had a dividing line when it was visible! It was a real bad joke...), then arrived to our destination. With a few more tooth loss. The loss culminated at 20 teeth, in the Eastern leg of the M3 motorway, it means that almost 1/4 of the drive belt was missing. In one, massive piece... it seemed that we won't make it home.
But... you know...
Sometimes praying to pagan deities does really work. Teresa (the goddess of love that gave the name to the Claymore warrior my bike was named after) loved us and Kanako took care of the weather, she even sent us trucks to protect us from the wind when I had to accelerate or climb hills
We got home with a defect of the same 20 teeth. Now I won't ride Teresa anywhere but call a trailer when I get a (the?) sprocket...
And the pictures..
Good news, Teresa is back
She's over a xenotransplantation and feels OK. Beside the belt sprocket she got a salvaged Kawasaki ZR250 front rim and brake disc (our mechanic said that the latter is a very common type for many Kawasaki models so it's easy and cheap to get - at least it costed ~ one fifth of a new BMW front disc).
The rim is similar in style to the original one, but this one has a darker finish - doesn't look bad on her, IMHO:
And on the way back home we reached 66666km by the odo (somewhere over 82000 irl) - I know that there's another topic for shots like this, I'll find it:
(And a Claymore insider joke: Now she has something in common with FrankenClaire - she's got a part of Flash Cylinder Irene (yes, this is what I'd probably call a ZR250 if I had one - they're 250cc inline fours with insane redline revs like 20k rpm ))
I think i update my topic with this observation about the new tires equipped at 70457km (by odo):
Now the tripmeter (and probably odo) is more off than anytime before.
Different takes on my short commute route:
Google maps: 24.8km
Teresa+Metzeler Z6: 24.6km
Teresa+Heidenau K73: 24.4km
And I think it'll be a bit more again when I wear out these tires.
I'm really thinking about some correction to prevent it skewing my mileage log
Any suggestions? How can I tell which is the correct one without a GPS?
(I've already compared Teresa's tripmeter with km signs along a freeway - it measured about 1-1.5% less with the Z6s last summer&fall. It means that now it's even more off...)
One more note: I'm thinking about making something like a bumper sticker, not to be seen while riding, just to show my dedication to efficiency. I have a concept and I plan to realize it with shiNIN's help (because I can't draw). It'll be, well, ****ed up For real.
I copy some more observation here (may be useful later): traction in rain is great with these tires. Still, I can't forget that they seem to worsen FE by a few MPG . And that the rear already looks a bit worn, it won't last 28000km by far, like my Z6 set did (now this set has ~5100km on it). In ideal case at least the front can last for 2 rears, so they don't get totally out of sync when I replace the whole set to something else - but I'm not sure it'll happen. I hate to throw away things that aren't totally worn off, but I'll may have to
Anyway, I've already set my eyes upon the Michelin Pilot Road 3. Those 2-component tires should be at least as durable as my Z6s were, as I deduced from the tests with stronger and heavier bikes - and they're praised for their traction too.
Long time no update... I've collected all the experience I could with those Heidenau K73s. My most important observation is that they aren't as balanced for longevity as the Metzeler Z6s were. Teresa had eaten 3 rears when I could finally replace the front
The three rears lasted 10350, 11800, 11900 kms each, with the first one replaced a bit early to save another trip to the workshop. The front lived for 34000+ km this way.
Now I went for a pair of Michelin Pilot Road 2: they were somewhat (like 12%) cheaper than the newer model, praised at f650.hu and only a few months old by their DOT numbers, so they should be very ok
I half-hoped that I can do away with distance correction with the new rubber, but it backfired: now Teresa is ~2 percent off compared to Ciliegia or the google maps. These new boots made her even more modest So I guess I can't help it, I have to go up to 2% correction in my logs from this next tank. Not too much math, but still :eyebrow:
The nice side is that I got a tiny bit taller gears, even though they can't really be changed with the belt drive :Banane13:
In the meantime Ciliegia got a new chain set, and both bikes got new motor and fork oil and brake fluid, so they're fit and ready for the 48-hour run next week :Banane01:
Major (and minor) part replacements for Teresa since last update:
- Clutch cable at 71999
- Seat re-covered and SHB replaced at 86175
- Drive belt and swing arm bearing replaced at 87650
- Rear brake pads at 92420 (had never been replaced before)
- Throwout bearing at 95320
- Handlebar straightened and front right turn signal replaced twice (guess why...)
- New mirrors (twice: first pair had HUGE dead space and picked up vibration like crazy)
- New front brake pads at 103865 (lasted ~33400km)
Add ~16000 to get 'real' kms. Some numbers should also be multiplied by 1.01 :eyebrow:
Pics for the trip when you get back!
Is there a rear tire that will last longer than 10K miles? I know the WR 250X's rear was pretty worn after its 7,500 mile ordeal.
My second Metzeler Z6 pair lasted 17k+ miles (28k km) and they even wore at once. The first pair (I got them with Teresa, already a bit used) lasted ~13k miles (21k km). This way they were very convenient, but I wanted to try something for the cold.
I hope these PR2s last long enough too, they're said to be quite durable. The 2 components should help.
But I practically don't know anything about tires in the WR250X, because the types I tried usually made up from 150 or 160 mm wide. AFAIK Michelin now makes Pilot Street in smaller sizes which is derived from PR2.
(And Ciliegia's factory equipped Shinko rear wasn't even too worn at 25k km - but that was really bad. Especially on wet roads.)
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