Nissan promises the 'Leaf' will take out the hybrids

Discussion in 'Nissan' started by xcel, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    [​IMG] 100-mile all-electric is enough to change the balance.

    [fimg=left]http://www.cleanmpg.com/photos/data/501/Nissan_Leaf_BEV.jpg[/fimg]Wayne Gerdes - CleanMPG - Aug. 11, 2009

    Nissan Leaf BEV – Confirmed to be priced between $25 and $33,000 USD.

    At the Center for Automotive Research seminar in Traverse City, MI last week, Nissan made some unusually bold statements regarding its just announced “Leaf” BEV.

    According to Larry Dominique, Nissan North America's vice president for product planning, Nissan's upcoming leaf could outsell Toyota's Prius because unlike hybrids, owners of the Leaf will incur a much lower total cost of ownership while saving the environment.

    "Hybrids won't get you there and PHEVs won't get you there," Dominique told reporters on the sidelines at the conference.

    Nissan will introduce the Leaf for somewhere in the $25,000 to $33,000 dollar range which is slightly more than the Prius.

    Nissan will introduce the Leaf first to business and government fleet customers in the United States, Japan and Europe next year and the consumer market place in 2011.

    The Li-Ion batteries are ready and if Nissan has somehow sourced them for a price that makes sense, you can be sure the BEV will soon be a reality for the rest of us.
     
  2. drimportracing

    drimportracing Pizza driver: 61,000+ deliveries

    Bring on the EVs!!! I'll have to buy mine used but the sooner they make them the sooner I can get one. I really have my heart set on a good old used Aptera, :D. But it would be nice to have choices too. :D - Dale
     
  3. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Yes! The Leaf is what the vaporware Chevy Volt should have been - affordable and available.
     
  4. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    I certainly hope so!

    I'm still waiting to see what Ford's Focus BEV ends up being in the official production version. I hope they also go with batteries mounted under the seating area -- I could use more trunk capacity than the prototype displays!
     
  5. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Agreed, Sean. With all the space savings from removing the gas tank, exhaust, cooling system and smaller motor, there should be plenty of room in a BEV for even a 25kWh Li pack without cutting into cargo space or folding seat capability.
     
  6. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Any guess what a 25 KWHR battery pack weighs? 15 Prius 1.5 KWHR packs would weigh about 1100 lbs? The Lithium based ones are supposed to be lighter-how much lighter?

    Charlie
    PS There is zero chance that the $30,000 Leaf willl steal many sales from the $3000 cheaper Prius which has unlimited range. It will save roughly $3000 in fuel costs over 100,000 miles-roughly the price difference.
     
  7. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Hi, Charlie -- the 16KWH pack in the Volt is said to weigh 375lbs. Based on that, scaling to 25KWH would give one an estimate of 586lbs.

    Not bad, eh?
     
  8. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Right Lane

    Thanks! Under 600 lbs is pretty light.The usual DIY lead battery "packs" usually push 1500 lbs and more.

    So the lithium packs are roughly 1/2 the weight of the nickle metal hydride.I guess that is worth the effort, but $30,000 is still too high. If gas becomes $5, it would make sense, but not at $2.50.

    The Volt has the same problem.A $40,000 ECONOMY CAR is a boutique low volume item- strictly for affluent greenies.

    Thanks
    Charlie
     
  9. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    The thing that is really frustrating is that the pack just doesn't cost all that much anymore, and the price keeps dropping! As noted in another article here (thanks, Wayne!) the price for a 16KWH pack is now less than $8K for an OEM bulk purchase. The Volt is nothing more than a different propulsion system in a Cruze body -- and production cost isn't anywhere near $40K. Not by a long shot. By the time they get it into showrooms the cost for the battery will have dropped even further.
     
  10. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    Right lane

    Exactly! Electric cars and electric cars with onboard generators just shouldn't be that expensive.
    GM just is dreaming trying to sell the Volt for $40,000. They will sell more Hybrid Tahoes than Volts, if they try to get $40000 for it.
    If its battery pack is just $8000, then it should sell for maybe $23000 max.

    The Leaf BP should be maybe $12000, but the rest of it-and electric motor, no transmission to speak of-should be cheap-.It should be a $20,000 car.

    Frankly,I think they should use cheaper battery packs-accept another 500 lbs of battery weight- and save $5000 in battery costs.

    These electric cars need to be cheap-Cobalt,Focus,Corolla cheap-$15000 or so.
    Oh well,

    Charlie
     
  11. drimportracing

    drimportracing Pizza driver: 61,000+ deliveries

    I hope it is not reminiscent of the games GM played with the EV1. Paraphrased "We put it out there but there just wasn't a market for it." - Dale
     
  12. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Charlie:

    ___It is not just the very expensive battery pack but a huge MGSet, Inverter and controllers that have to be added. If you believe the Volt should be a $23,000 vehicle, than a Prius should be a $17,000 vehicles as it is based off the Corolla platform and HSD all-in is about $2,000...

    ___The Leaf will be equipped with at least a 24 kWh pack and I suspect that is only the usable portion with another 6 kWh for headroom on the top and bottom end for increased longevity. We are talking about $15,000 + in OEM quantities plus the Motor, Controllers and Inverter.

    ___All said, the Leaf between $25,000 and $32,000 makes sense. The Volt at $40,000 does not.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  13. Shiba3420

    Shiba3420 Well-Known Member

    Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn. If they play that card, they are going to find they don't have the technology to compete and toyota will give a phev soon enough, and I desperatly want to buy one when they do. I want to support that technology and make it the future. I still think we will go from ice->hybrid->phev->ev;

    There will be some microsteps in there. A prius PHEV probably will be pretty much the existing Prius with a bigger battery. But over the next 10 years, I suspect the battery and electric motor will get bigger and the enginer will get smaller. Eventually the ICE gets decoupled (like the Volt), and from there it might eventually be removed or made into an accessory tow thing. I don't know how long it will take to get there, but I sure hope I still have a license when we do. (however if the car is willing to drive, I'm willing to passenger, but thats another technology line)
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  14. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Wayne, I'm not so sure about bigger battery capacity for the Leaf. The Focus BEV had a 23KWH pack (IIRC) and that was sufficient for 100+mi in that car.
     
  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Sean:

    ___I suspect the same of the Focus. Even with a 90% DoD, that means the Focus/Leaf need to pull 200 Wh/mile and that is going to be tough let alone 90% DoD is coming close to harming the packs?

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  16. WriConsult

    WriConsult Super Moderator

    Very excited about the Leaf, not least because it will be available here in Oregon right at the outset. I also like the fact that it appears to have a hatchback. Although I have more need for that in my family-roadtrip vehicle than my commuter vehicle, and a BEV is of course not a family-roadtrip vehicle, I still consider it a plus.
     
  17. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    It does indeed have a hatch -- and the cargo floor is very low indeed as there is no gas tank to get in the way! :)
     

Share This Page