rear tire wear,,lots of noise,, cupping

Discussion in 'Honda Hybrids' started by sprintman, Jun 27, 2009.

  1. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    Have not missed fold down rear seats one time in the HCHII. Fact is we only had the seats down one time in the 05 Accord and I've never needed to fold down the seats in the MZ3.

    Honda just needs to pull there heads out concerning the rear camber issue. Do it right and be done with it! And let us not speak of the possible caster issue. But that brings toe into play.

    I'm still amazed at how many hybrid owners haven't a clue about this issue. The problem has been around since the very first 8th gen Civic was built. Be it Coupe or Sedan,,, Not a Si issue.
     
  2. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    I'm glad my Insight doesn't have that issue!!
     
  3. msantos

    msantos Eco Accelerometrist

    Hi Sean;

    And neither do all HCH-II's.

    A prime example of this was my two 2006, and 2007 models along with a substantial number of vehicles in my area that I can personally account for.

    With this said, the number of vehicles that have this issue is nothing to sneeze at either. :(

    Cheers;

    MSantos
     
  4. psyshack

    psyshack He who posts articles

    This has never been a issue for any Honda Sean. NEVER! Honda has been doing multilink front and rear for years. There has been supply side strut issues for years off and on and the 7th gen Civic got nailed bad concerning that one. But multilink,,, That is one of Hondas claim to fame. Accord is multilink front and rear.

    The 8th gen Civic's less Si have had spring, mainly rear and camber issues from day one. Some of the DX, LX and EX Coupes even have suspension geometry issues that go back to the stamping of body panels and sorry robotic setups including laser system and the autobot welders. The bad spot welds can be the cause of uncured rattles in the 7th gen Accord. My Aunt had a 7th gen Accord Coupe that rattled like crazy. We found 3 spot welds bad. Clamped them and wire welded them and center burnt the areas. Rattle gone.

    Honda knows flat out they have problems. But there answer is to ride the coat tales. They will put out a TSB on it. Knowing full well unless a cust. complains or a honest dealer see's it. It's not a issue.

    The problem with multilink and camber is simple. In a standard inside pivoting independent suspension like say a old escort or tracer the camber changes with wheel travel up and down. If the wheel is down you have positive camber. If the wheel is up you have negative camber. Not a problem if your tires are right and it's close to normal load at plus or minus 1 degree. You go around a corner you stand the tire up and wear on all the tread. Say like a old Triumph.

    With multilink its only suppose to very maybe 1 to 3 degree's over all in the wheels travel. This is great for FWD cars. You want the rear end to follow the front end and keep all the rubber on the road. If you have negative camber in a FWD car on the rear all you get is a skiddish possible better mpg because you have less tire on the tarmac.

    Lets take a current production Accord with Honda's wonderful multilink front and rear. You can lower the car. Does not matter who's springs or strut's you use. If your smart you will put a camber kit in the rear so you can take the negative camber out of the rear wheels. If you slam the car you might have to put a kit in the front end. But more times than not the front wont need any help because under power a FWD car will suck the wheels back up under it's self thus giving you close to if not even camber. Its how they make the links and figure the geometry. So if one looks at a FWD car and knowing that it has multilink front and rear. One might want to see the front tires squatted out a tad and the rears at least straight if not tucked in a hair. Drive it and weight shift and aero makes it right.

    Even with multilink front and rear on a car,,, say like a late model Accord it piss's me off to hear and see folks suggest you set your static suspension up neutral. On the alignment rack that's freaking great! But on the road it could be a disaster.
     
  5. Yaris Hilton

    Yaris Hilton Half a Bubble Off Plumb

    Is Toyota just a brand marketer with no manufacturing facilities of their own, like Sears' Kenmore appliances, say? Or maybe Weatherby rifles would be a better comparison; they have their own designs or custom variations of others built by contracted manufacturers, only having a corporate office of their own and a network of franchised dealers. My 2009 Yaris was built by Kanto Auto Works, Ltd. in Kanegasaki, Iwate Prefecture, Japan.
    http://www.kanto-aw.co.jp/en/corporate/profile/
    http://www.kanto-aw.co.jp/en/corporate/profile/location.html
    http://www.kanto-aw.co.jp/en/products/automotiver/
     
  6. Kacey Green

    Kacey Green Well-Known Member

    Jeff I can't say more because the info isn't public but Honda does take these sorts of things seriously.

    There was a campaign run earlier this year that even someone as car-loving as myself might not have run if resources were free and plentiful. (it wasn't the HCHII or Civic either)
     
  7. mtbiker278

    mtbiker278 Biotech Researcher

    I'd just liek to add in my two cents to this whole dilema...

    I have a 2006 Civic EX coupe, and had all 4 tires replaces at ~55k miles. Up till now I've been rotating the tires regularly and haven't really seen any issues. However, the tires I just installed were Gerneral Altimax HP and they have a Visual Aliagnment Indicator molded into the tire (find out more specifics on the website).

    Recently I've noticed that the inside has been wearing quicker than the outside. I got under the car and took a long look at the wheel and there is some definite negative camber. The car now has ~ 72k miles on, so it's well out of the 3/36k warranty. However when I called up my dealer they guy seem to understand my problem.

    He told me to look at the upper control arm for a "C" on the control arms. If the arms have the "C" on it, it's the updated part. If not the control arms will have to be replace and an alignment would be done. I'm going to check it out later today when I do some other maintenance stuff, but they said they would give me a quote on the parts and labor if needed.

    I check out the prices on www.hondaautomotiveparts.com and the control arms list for ~$70 each, but can be sold for ~$50 each on their site. The associated bolts are maybe a buck each. So total parts would probably be in the range of $110-$170, labor probably $60-100, and an alignment for $80 (these are my own estimates).

    Needless to say I'm not too happy about it, but I'd rather have a car that doesn't eat tires every other year. I might consider doing the install myself since the toe and caster shouldn't change drastically with the new control arms (I hope). The major problem is jacking the wheel back to connect the control arm when the car is already lifted.

    With any luck it should be relatively painless.
     
  8. mtbiker278

    mtbiker278 Biotech Researcher

    After a bit more information I can give everyone an update.

    I do indeed have to original "bad" control arms on my car. Honda has updated the TSB with the Kit number 04523-SNA-A01 which includes the new upper control arms and asociated hardware. The kit can be purchased from www.hondaautomotiveparts.com for ~$135. It doesn't look like it would be a difficult swap, but you would definitely need to schedule an appt. for an alignment after the install.

    I called my local dealer and they quoted me $80 for the alignment, $257 for the parts, and $105 for the labor. This is for a car that is out of warranty (72k miles). By doing the swap myself I'll save ~$227! The tuner forums show this to be a pretty easy job if you have the right tools (Jack, stands, the right sockets, probably a cheater bar, and a torque wrench).

    Wish me luck!
     

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