'09 FEH Techniques

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by GaryG, May 21, 2009.

  1. rmcmast

    rmcmast Well-Known Member

    Thanks. The RPM drop doesn't bother me, I was just curious about what it was. I have noticed that when in fuel cut at higher speeds (65mph +) the RPM settles higher, around 1300-1400, which makes sense if it's holding for transition to aceleration.

    By the way, I've been using the blip from EV, especially when SoC is lower. Just a quick tap on the gas. Works great most of the time. I usually only drop .1 SoC if any.

    -- Rick
     
  2. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    I started thinking about this 46% SoC requirement and why the brake tap changes that requirement. When we tap the brake pedal it's signaling higher regen so the battery below a 46% SoC can allow MG1 to stop charging and provide an engine idle during DFSO. Tapping the brake could allow MG2 to start supplying A/C power to MG1 to hold the idle directly without conversion losses going through the battery. At or above a 46% SoC the TBCM reduces the demand for a fast charge so MG2 can provide enough current during decel to both MG1 to hold the idle with excess going to battery charging. The PCM is what controls DFSO so the tap sends the message from the brake pedal switch for additional regen. Once that message is sent by the tap the PCM takes control of regen and DFSO and does not reverse its command.

    I think the same thing is happening with the accelerator blip. The command is sent from the pedal to the PCM for a restart from EV, but we fooled the PCM for a split second and don't get the rest of the command to use the electric motors to do the NVH thing and burn that additional SoC.

    I'm glad you are using the accelerator blip with some success and you agree it can work. It does not sound like many are posting about their success with it like I am. I would say 98% of every blip restart from EV works for me now from a stop all the way up to 40mph in EV. Sometimes I lose up to .3% SoC but that is much better than allowing the PCM to drop the SoC down to 38.8% (1.2% loss from a 40% automatic restart). If I save 1% SoC 100 times during the day and you get 12% SoC (40 - 52% SoC) out of a full battery, that's 8.3 full charges using no regen or gas. Lets say on average I get 1.3 miles out of every fully charged battery without P&G in EV. That's 1.3 miles X 8.3 charges = 10.79 miles free that those people not using the blip can be paying for in city driving. Now 100 blips for restarts sounds like a bit much, but I run P&G with between 40.4 and 42% SoC on average in city driving. The reason is because a low battery SoC charges faster and I can go back to EV much faster. As you can see the blip really makes a difference for me.

    GaryG
     
  3. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    I just installed my SG-II today, and now I have to leave town for 4 days....so I won't get to play with it much. I'm sure I'll have some questions when I return....

    But for now, is there an XGauge for the tire pressure? I'd like to have that available so I would know when to add air without getting down on my knees and playing in the brake dust.

    ???
     
  4. CarlD

    CarlD Well-Known Member

    It is possible to have an xgauge for individual tire pressures, but for gen 1 FEHs it requires a special connector arrangement that puts the MS-CAN network onto the HS CAN pins on the SG. If you only have 1 SG then you lose all of the other xgauges, of course. I don't know how the 09 works but if the SJB is still on the MS CAN bus then it would be the same.
     
  5. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    When I see brake dust on a cars rims I think it shows how hard a person drives his car. Not saying you are driving your car hard because you could be just using the term to be funny. Just look at a vehicles rims that races to the stoplight ahead of you sometime and see what I mean. I never seen a brake dust problem on my '05 FEH till I let my daughter use it for a few months. It wasn't real bad like I've seen on the heavy tailgaters that race up to the back of your car sometimes but it was weird seeing it for the first time on my FEH.

    Maybe it's a good time to remind people about the DWB (driving without brake) technique here at CMPG. In our '09 FEH I use the brake pedal sparingly for regen when I need to slow or come to a stop because "L" gear does not work like it does in the '05 - '08 FEH models. I also use it in EV when coasting to put a little charge in the battery to prevent a low SoC restart to finish my EV glide.

    GaryG
     
  6. Jimmydreams

    Jimmydreams Well-Known Member

    Gary..

    I was trying to be funny. I do not drive my FEH hard at all. Or at least compared to the way I used to drive. ;)

    I never thought about the brake dust being an indicator of how hard someone drives their car. It makes sense, though, because I used to drive my BMW pretty hard it it was a brake dust magnet! Come to think of it, I've got 3500 miles on my FEH and I don't see any brake dust on it.

    Along with trying the maximize my MPG, I'm also trying to see how many miles I can get out of the brakes on my FEH, so I try and brake lightly to utilize regren and minimize actual brake pad usage.
     
  7. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi Carl

    I can confirm the TPM is still on MS-CAN on the '09 FEH. I was doing some research in the '09 FEH workshop manual for a problem a poster on BlueOval has with his TPMS.

    I am starting to use a new P&G technique where I'm pulsing higher than my target speed and coasting down to that target speed in "D" before setting the CC. Here is a sample of what I'm doing now:

    1. Drain the battery in EV to 40.8% and glide in "N" from 30mph to 25mph.

    2. The battery will drain down to 40.1% to 40.6% during this glide.

    3. Restart the engine with an accelerator blip in "D" and accelerate at a Instant MPG at around 15mpg to 33mph and coast down to 30mph in "D" and set the CC.

    4. The SoC generally builds to around 41% to 41.2% at the time I set the CC at 30mph for the remainder of a 42% SoC.

    5. At 42% SoC and 30mph the engine will shutdown for EV automatically in CC.

    6. Drain the battery again to 40.8% SoC and shift to "N" and repeat again.

    The key seems to be the period of time while coasting down in "D" from ~33mph to ~30mph. The instant MPG increases anywhere from 65mpg to 110mpg during this short coast in "D" and the battery SoC is still increasing. Once the CC is set MPG falls to ~25 to 45mph depending if the Aux A/C is running in this 90F heat I'm having. With ~400 miles on this tank I'm holding 54mpg so far. Of course this is in mixed City and about 25% highway. The trick Rick came up with tapping the brake above 40mph for full fuel-cut works like a charm also.

    Can't wait for the cooler weather!

    GaryG
     
  8. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    I feel like a fool because a much better P&G for the '09 FEH was right under my nose and I didn't find it until today. I made an improvement these past two tanks in this hot weather but I seen a big improvement today.

    Basically, I pulse to a target speed and glide in EV in neutral right away down to traffic speed. This allows the battery SoC to increase and still boost MPG. I only use EV mode under a steady state speed above 42% so I can always go EV for engine shutdown and a glide to slowing traffic or a stop. This allows you to build the SoC during P&G and then burn the battery down in a steady state speed and really boost MPG even more. The pulse is much less time than the glide and EV is available in much longer segments.

    GaryG
     
  9. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Throw everything I've said except my last post regarding P&G. I still do the accelerator blip for the restart but I don't allow the SoC to go below 42% anymore. I think I'm going to have a record breaking tank from this passed fill-up and many more to come as it gets cooler here. Those of you that have the '05 - '08 FEH can use the brake tap or LGA to go EV and neutral glide but Ford really made it easier for us '09 owners. For us '09 FEH owners, fuel-cut above 40mph is the icing on the cake but the only downside is we must glide in "D" till we go EV at 40mph.

    The problem I'm seeing now is I'm driving much faster roads and don't avoid roads with many stoplights. This change in P&G allows me regain my tank target average (55mpg this tank) quite quickly, so I'm getting spoiled. I accelerate always with the engine now and at a 15mpg Instant MPG I'm accelerating pretty fast with the '09 engine. The little time it takes me to get to my target speed makes gliding seem forever in comparison. The real bonus is while I'm improving MPG with P&G, I target about a 45 - 47% SoC and a good road to burn the SoC down to ~42.5% in EV at a steady state speed in CC. Of course EV racks up those MPG's also and we can really start taking advantage of having a hybrid. Sure, I'm burning gas accelerating but I'm also building SoC at the same time. This is really getting FUN now!

    GaryG
     
  10. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Okay, I tried this P&G technique in my '05 FEH today and it hit me that I've tried it before and it didn't work like it does in the '09 FEH. It didn't work when I could buy straight gas so I found it's worse with ethanol. The 2.3L is just too under powered and the old O2 sensors just can't handle E10 like the new 2.5L in the '09. I estimate I'm pushing 18mpg better in my '09 FEH with this change in P&G than is possible in my '05 FEH on E10. I did get the '05 up to 44mpg but I had to go much slower than getting 60mpg in my '09 FEH in the same conditions and roads with this new P&G technique. In fact, I hit 70mpg with E10 in the '09 in a 8 mile stretch a few days ago after a reset of the SGII Current Trip. I don't think I could get 50mpg with E10 on that same stretch in my '05 FEH.

    GaryG
     
  11. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    I confirmed the new P&G strategy in my '09 FEH today with a record 57.74mpg with a 785 mile tank of 13.595 gallons. At about 400 miles my Nav Sys was reading a high of 61.8mpg tank average but dropped at fill-up to 60.6mpg today. The SGII set at a 13% tank correction was reading 58.0mpg at fill-up. I never thought the '09 would reach this kind of mileage average on E10 and flat roads in this heat.

    This tank is 177.6% of combined EPA (32.5mpg) for the '09 FWD FEH and has brought my lifetime MPG average over the 50mpg mark. A good reason to buy FORD!

    GaryG
     
  12. Xringer

    Xringer Older Member

    WOW! That's amazing Gary!
    You must be getting 200 MPG on the downhill segments!
    Congrads on the 50.1
     
  13. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Thanks Rich

    I just hope other '09 FEH and FFH owners can take advantage of this P&G strategy. I'm excited about future tanks with this simple change.

    GaryG
     
  14. rdprice64

    rdprice64 Still Learning

    Hi Gary,

    Great job! I am not as technically astute as many others, so can you confirm my understanding of the above that your new P&G technique is not really an option for those of us in the pre-09 FEH? Glad it is working so well for you though.

    Thanks,
    Rob
     
  15. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi Rob

    A few years ago when I was testing my '05 for the best P&G technique this method was not the best for a number of reasons. The under powered 2.3L required electric motor assist to accelerate like the new 2.5L Atkinson. Any time you are getting Assist while accelerating you are no longer charging the battery and in fact draining the battery. The time it took to accelerate (Pulse) without Assist with the 2.3L, the engine was On to long which was less efficient than the '09 2.5L. Instead, I found it was better with the '05 to get a quick charge with regen and get back to EV ASAP. This was what I called the LGA (Low Gear Advantage) and it does not work in the '09 FEH because Ford reprogrammed "L". My habit of accelerating slow in the '05 went on in the '09 till the beginning of this summer and the A/C compressor was making me search for ways to counter the drop in MPG. When I started accelerating faster in the '09 I seen I could maintain a better MPG average when the compressor was running. Again, the A/C compressor really drags down the acceleration in the '05 2.3L Atkinson compared to the '09 2.5L. Add headwinds and speed to the 2.3L on E10 and it becomes a gas hog in the AWD and FWD. It is better to accelerate in EV in the '05 FEH because the engine needs Assist to get out of its own way. The faster you can get to a steady state speed and reduce the load on the '05 2.3L seems why pure EV to 30mph works best for it. This is right the opposite in the '09 2.5L where the engine has more efficient torque accelerating and EV is more efficient at a steady state speed. The '09 2.5L Atkinson does not require a fake shift to stop runaway RPMs while trying to accelerate like in my '05. Anytime you're getting runaway RPM's you are at 100% engine load and full Assist. I can control a fast acceleration without Assist with the 2.5L Atkinson and not with the 2.3L FEH. The reason this change in P&G strategy works in the '09 FEH is because of a combination of going EV much easier, more efficient engine power and will hold a higher EV speed than earlier models.

    GaryG
     
  16. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    One thing I must post about for the '09 FEH is how fast the HV battery drains with all these options and safety equipment. The headlights really drop MPG but I can see the HV battery drains much faster than my '05 FEH.

    When I hypermiled the BMW X6 ActiveHybrid I couldn't believe how fast its HV battery drained with the electric A/C On. It was so bad in City driving because I couldn't go EV for a glide in neutral because the battery SoC was hard to be maintained above EV conditions.

    If my headlights add that much of a drain in my '09 to drop 3 or 4 MPG, I can see electric A/C in the '10 FEH and FFH could be a big problem also in City driving. I was able to maintain well over 50mpg with the headlights On in City driving but I was having a hard time building SoC for a steady state EV segment after P&G techniques. My belt driven A/C compressor reduces MPG while cooling the battery but I can still charge the battery during the pulse for a good EV segment without the headlights. I can see that for someone with the '10 FEH it will really effect City MPG while using the electric A/C and EV mode. This may explain why '10 FFH owners find highway mileage with the A/C is better than City driving with the A/C.

    Don't get me wrong about my '09 FEH and the headlights being a big problem because I'm still using the headlights at night and in the rain and my last tank average is still 55mpg on E10. Also, I have every option on my FEHL so I have the maximum 12V drain with the '09 FEH.

    GaryG
     
  17. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    I've had a number of request over the years to put my driving techniques on Youtube to give a better understanding of how I use hypermiling techniques in the FEH. I personally know very little about filming and I certainly can't drive and film at the same time. However, my youngest Son Kyle has an interest in film making and put a small film together for a high school class for a team grade. It was better than I thought he could do with no training and the teacher said it was the best film she had seen over her years of teaching that class. Kyle wrote the short story, filmed his classmates and edited the film http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKaBYC1vGsY .

    I was just ask again would I put my FEH hypermiling techniques on Youtube by three members on GH. I'm interested in comments here to get my Son motivated in riding in the back of my '09 FEH to make such a film. I talk to Kyle today and he confirmed the techniques films had to be broke down in Youtube short segments but it was doable. Would this be of interest to people on this site?

    GaryG
     
  18. rdprice64

    rdprice64 Still Learning

    Great looking video Gary. I would certainly like to be able to see you in action in a similar format.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2010
  19. rmcmast

    rmcmast Well-Known Member

    Gary,

    I would be interested in this. Pulse and glide especially. High speed as well as EV. Living in a rural area outside Kansas City most of my driving is highway.

    Perhaps you could eventually take it on the road, say hypermiling in the Midwest during winter :).

    Had an especially bad winter here in northwestern MO. I was in the low 30's mpg most of the time. Just now starting to get back near 40mpg.

    -- Rick
     
  20. ggadwa

    ggadwa New Member

    Gary,
    I too would be very interested in seeing you in action Hypermiling with your son Kyle enhancing his Videography skills and Youtube publication.

    GARY G.
    2010 FEH AWD
    Stanley, Idaho
     

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