`10 FFH/MMH Specific Suggestions and/or Best Practices for Better FE

Discussion in 'Ford Hybrids' started by rtw819, May 18, 2009.

  1. rtw819

    rtw819 Member

    Noob alert! :)

    Wondering if there is any sense in asking whether or not there are any 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid / Mercury Milan Hybrid techniques that are specific to these vehicles for better fuel economy? Are there any techniques that should (or definitely should not) be used with the FFH/MMH that might be obvious (or perhaps not-so-obvious no-no's)?

    Wayne's eXCELlent rules of thumb are below, which are a great stepping off point...

    * Slowing down and maintaining even throttle pressure;
    * Gradually accelerating and smoothly braking;
    * Maintaining a safe distance between vehicles and anticipating traffic conditions;
    * Coasting up to red lights and stop signs to avoid fuel waste and brake wear;
    * Minimize use of heater and air conditioning to reduce the load on the engine;
    * Close windows at high speeds to reduce aerodynamic drag;
    * Applying the "Pulse and Glide" technique while maintaining the flow of traffic;
    * Minimize excessive engine workload by using the vehicle's kinetic forward motion to climb hills, and use downhill momentum to build speed; and
    * Avoiding bumps and potholes that can reduce momentum

    Credit: Link to AutoBlogGreen.com 1,445 miles/tank article

    Sorry if I've missed any resources already out there. I haven't seen anything extremely detailed (as far as efficient driving "habits") on the new Ford Fusion hybrids, and thought here would be a great place to ask! Anyone have any links or thoughts they'd like to share? Any Fusion-based ideas from Basic Efficiency Skills (like those above that anyone/everyone could or should be doing) to Fusion-specific Advanced Techniques would be appreciated...

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Rtw819:

    ___The CleanMPG team members covered the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid – 1,000 mile Challenge really really well. Having really no time to even get on the web, I was pleasantly surprised when I arrived home on the Wednesday after the event to see what the membership had posted. The techniques we use are a bit more detailed than the watered down Ford used for the press releases however...

    ___In chronological order...

    Ford's 2010 Fusion Hybrid in a Challenge Marathon drive for Charity

    1,000 mile + weekend for charity has begun!

    Ford's 2010 Fusion Hybrid in a Challenge Marathon drive for Charity.

    One Thousand Miles And Counting: Fusion Hybrid Breaks 1,000 Miles On Single Tank

    A Weekend with Wayne, Ford, and the Fusion Hybrid

    Fusion Hybrid Averages 81.5_MPG - World Record - 1,445 Miles on single tank of fuel

    ___We are going to pick up the 1,000 mile “Challenge” vehicle this coming week for the MiHG meet (see the Home Page: Next MiHG Meet, 5-23-09 - Ford & 1,000-mile Challenge Fusion Hybrid) and I will try and knock out a full review on it for the short time I have it.

    ___Do you by chance live in the Chicago area? If you do, I will be performing clinics in the “Challenge” vehicle and you can get first hand techniques from behind the exact windscreen we drove plus it will be even better setup than I was allowed in DC too ;)

    ___Ford shipped me a 2010 Mercury Milan Hybrid for 2-days to figure out what was needed to do to break 1,000 mile barrier but unfortunately, it was raining for ½ the drive and with temps in the 30’s for much if it, it was frustrating at best to reach just 59.x mpg :(

    Mercury Milan Hybrid Review Blog -- March 9 - 11

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  3. DavidRN85

    DavidRN85 Well-Known Member

    One thing I've tried to do with my FFH is to help maintain my glide portion of pulse and glide I'll feather the pedal a smidge as I reach the -5mph below the speed limit to maintain that speed. It does use some of the battery power but because I drive on mostly long flat roads I can maintain my glide for an extra 10-20 seconds without a significant hit to the battery.

    Other than that.....when it is cold out, as it was this morning, it took a few minutes for my engine to warm, just dropping into neutral for those warm-up pulse and glides helps.

    And actually I've noticed that the car likes to glide better when I drop it into neutral, even with the electric motor on.

    I'm not a super skilled hypermiler like Wayne but I'm a fast learner. And I was hoping after a couple months of driving it, to post some tips for others about maximizing mileage in it.

    Right now has been painful because of the spring time temps in Michigan. Right now it is almost 70F out, but this morning it was 38F out!. I've had glimmers of glory with this car, getting 74.7 and 94.0 MPG on two separate trips this weekend, but that should get even better with the warmer weather and also once my car actually breaks in...I've only had it 2 weeks!
     
  4. DavidRN85

    DavidRN85 Well-Known Member

    Quick update on the car. The car will do 'stealth' EV mode up to about 60-61mph. I noticed this over the weekend at highway speed on hilly roads.

    The dash says just PWR like when the gas engine is on however it is NOT on. The first 5-10% pressure you put on the throttle will not increase RPM and starts to drain the battery and the instant MPG rockets to 60+

    Also noticed this stealth EV mode was super hard to induce, basically had to be on flat or descending road surface.
     
  5. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi David:

    ___It is a warp stealth and you can see it with a SG-II. The ICE is spinning via pack output into MG1 but not consuming any fuel.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  6. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    Hi Wayne

    Is this just DFSO and MG2 holding the idle speed with the wheels? My SGII reads 9,999 Instant MPG and Open-Loop in "D" above 40mph in my '09 FEH during decel but if I add gas pedal pressure I go Closed-Loop and decrease MPG. Charging the battery is reduced during full or part DFSO from MG2 but I have no drain. How does the FFH differ?

    GaryG
     
  7. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Gary:

    ___There is a drain on the pack anytime you are above 40 mph and not regenning as MG1 is spinning the ICE yet you are not consuming fuel in fuel cut. Is there a balance point between Regen and WS, sure but there is energy being depleted through MG1 spinning that ICE. The FFH has a very high resolution image on battery activity and above 40 mph during a glide; you can see the draw from the pack while the ICE is not spinning. Counter or back EMF is how it was explained to me.

    ___The FFH has another mode that you can maintain about 60 mpg at extremely light load and you can "build" SoC. I was using it some on our trip from Dearborn to IL but it did not really add to the FE (holding 59 to 60 mpg per the 2-minute bars) but I did have a SoC closing in on 80% while going down the Interstate. Of course the FFH did not like it up there and at the next opportunity during any slight climb or accel, would dump SoC with assist like crazy :(

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  8. DavidRN85

    DavidRN85 Well-Known Member

    I know exactly what you speak of. I have unfortunately experienced that too and it is quite annoying. Especially after a long highway trip I'd like to have that 80% SOC to EV hang time my glides once I'm back on city streets.

    Basically and unfortunately any extended time on the highway means your SOC stays pegged at 50%
     
  9. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi David:

    ___The FFH just like the FEH and HSD equipped Hybrids tries to maintain a 55 to 60% real SoC for pack longevity reasons and that is why the BCM's tend to manage SoC to that level.

    ___Hang Time is a IGN based SHM mode for highway travel and is not really a city technique.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  10. DavidRN85

    DavidRN85 Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. At least now I know the proper terms to use. Still learning this hypermiling stuff. But I'm enjoying learning it and already seeing the tangible real world benefits.
     
  11. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi David:

    ___No problem as my acronyms can get in a way sometime ;) You are leading the pack when it comes to the FFH and I cannot wait to see your progress and achievements as the summer progresses :)

    ___Good Luck and thank you for purchasing what I consider to be the second most fuel efficient vehicle available in America.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  12. WPWoodJr

    WPWoodJr Member

    David and Wayne, why does the FFH glide better in neutral? When the ICE is off, is the FFH always doing regen?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2009
  13. DavidRN85

    DavidRN85 Well-Known Member

    Easy answer is that when you glide in D it attempts to regen the battery. You lose ALOT of momentum when that happens(at least 25-30%), when you slip it into N you can literally feel the car start to roll better.

    Regen is based upon alot of variables, so it is not always recharging. But as a general rule if you are in D, above 15-20 mph, on some kind of good road surface and your foot is off the gas it'll start to regen the battery.

    Speaking of which I was preparing some thoughts of a good info packed update for tomorrow on some things I learned about the car this weekend.

    I'll give a little hint, 57.1mpg over 87.4 miles. Highway driving. :cool::cool:
     
  14. WPWoodJr

    WPWoodJr Member

    So, if you feather the throttle can you keep it from going into regen mode? Or would that be less efficient than going into neutral because you are still providing power to the electric engine(s)?
     
  15. DavidRN85

    DavidRN85 Well-Known Member

    Well now you've run upon a catch-22 that I've encountered myself.....

    You can feather the TPS to keep it from regen at the expense of burning battery...and it still feels like it glides better in N

    But.....

    Dropping it into neutral can drain the battery, but will stop draining at about 40%. But if you are in N going downhill(or uphill) it usually wont drain the battery. Oh its confusing :p
     
  16. WPWoodJr

    WPWoodJr Member

    Yes that is confusing! I get mine this week so I can play with it. Do you have any idea why the battery would drain in neutral (aside from running AC etc)?

    Also, is there any revs matching required when moving from neutral back to drive or do you just shove it into drive? :)
     
  17. DavidRN85

    DavidRN85 Well-Known Member

    I've never rev matched and anyways if you try and rev match in neutral it tends to just spin the electric motor(actually push the gas pedal to the floor and nothing will happen or it might even start to regen the battery!!). So no I don't think rev matches are required and usually when you glide in neutral the gas motor is off due to aggressive fuel shutoff
     
  18. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Guys:

    ___You can glide the FFH in N or by applying a small amount of accelerator to remove assist and regen (the second being harder) but the problem lyes with the way the fields are still being generated even while in N from higher and higher speeds Ford did not drop the MG1/2’s fields out in N like the Toyota’s do. You can see a the pack pull via the Power mimic while in a Glide from 47 down to about 40 mph where it disappears from the mimic but it is still there. Theories about HSD during a Glide in N include a back EMF build which you can remove in N under 41. The FFH unfortunately was not constructed in such a manner and a glide no matter if in N or D with the pedal is drawing current :(

    ___Regarding all highway numbers, the FFH can do some damage on the highway as shown in the 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid at the May 2009 MiHG - Second 1,000 mile tank in progress.

    ___Do not try and rev match as the engine is set to pick up to match automatically when it is required. You will feel two distinct shimmy’s as you approach 47 mph from the top or bottom when the ICE transitions.

    ___Do not try and run EV above ~ 37 mph as the losses are higher than running on the ICE. Do however Glide down from higher speeds and above 47, WS, transition to a glide and hold until you have reached the lower speed target due to traffic, lights and signs or coming to a stop at your destination.

    ___ The TCH can perform similarly and at higher speeds under its own brand of SHM but we will not know how close until later this year.

    ___Good Luck

    ___Wayne
     
  19. GaryG

    GaryG Well-Known Member

    There are two operating states of neutral, ACTIVE which is above 6MPH and PASSIVE which is below 6mph. Below 6mph there is no charging by regen or the generator when in neutral and the engine will remain running or in EV which ever the state it was in when shifted to neutral. Above 6mph the generator can charge the battery but regen is not available. This is what makes neutral coasting 36% further than "D" coasting. Trying to glide with gas pedal pressure in "D" does not eliminate some regen so shifting to "N" is far better. You cannot REV match from "N" to "D" and there is no need to with the Ford eCVT. Engine speed and wheel speed are not directly connected. You can only get DFSO in "D" or "L" but never in "N" because no power or torque will go into or out of the traction motor which is free wheeling with the wheels and gear set. I shift to "N" only when in EV for gliding. The engine is off in EV so the generator cannot charge the battery but you need to shift back to "D" for any regen or brake pedal regen. In other words the brake pedal cannot provide regen in "N" either. The engine cannot be started in Passive "N" under 6 mph but can be key started in Active "N" above 6mph. Ford warns in the owner's manual against key-Off FAS and restarting.

    GaryG
     
  20. WPWoodJr

    WPWoodJr Member

    What exactly dis-engages in neutral? Is it the MG2 from the wheels? The ICE from the MG2?

    And what happens in Low? Does it limit the top speed? Or just increase regen when you release the gas pedal?
     

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