I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought Ahead

Discussion in 'General' started by EXPIOWA, Dec 30, 2008.

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    EXPIOWA Man of Leisure

    Re: I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought A

    The oil is there for the taking. There are always problems with getting anything of value. If we hate giving our money to the middle-easterners we can stop. We could likely do it right now without drilling a single well, but it would cost more. It is cheaper and easier to keep buying it from them. Let them kill their own trees. Politically, we don't really care what they do with our money because if we did we would be willing to pay the price to stop giving it to them. The truth is we are not.

    Many state governments are now considering taxing you per mile instead of per gallon. Our cars are getting better mileage and their revenues are down. Amazingly, some people are even driving less. :eek: They will try to get your money either way. Oregon is only the latest. - And its coming to a state near you. :thumbs_up: (They will probably keep the gas tax too, just in case).

    I believe that they know of several untapped large reserves that nobody is talking about. If an oil company found a big fat pocket of sweet crude under any location on earth they might not tell us about it for years. They certainly wouldn't tell a competitor.

    If we think that gas is so finite it naturally would have a aura of being more valuable. Perception is King. Need an example. You could have just about anything on Earth for three easy payments of $29.95. A $259 value! Many people say to themselves, "Wow! that shiny bent fork is just the thing that will bring fulfillment into my life" then pull out their, already over extended, credit card and pick up the phone. We live in fear and are guided by it. Have you seen the news lately, or at least the commercials for the news. "How you can avoid being eaten by two-headed cannibals, tonight at 10". Do you realize how many things are lurking around the corner waiting to kill or maim me because I didn't tune in? Scare tactics work on people who lack critical thinking skills. It is basic human psychology.

    If gas is worth about $1.65 right now and we have enough to go around wouldn't it be smart to keep it under wraps for when gas hits $4, $5, maybe $9 dollars per gallon? Isn't it that kind of thinking that ran it up over $4/gallon in the first place? If you can control the supply you can control the price. That is the point of OPEC.

    There is an entire sector of our economy that is based upon supplying the "Green" needs of our population. If somebody announced tomorrow that we had enough gas to last forever it would be met with disbelief. Their career would certainly get burned at the stake.

    I haven't bought into the philosophy of what I have been told for years. I have come to my own conclusions about oil politics, natural resources, and environmental concerns. I don't believe that oil is finite. I also don't believe that what comes out of my tailpipe has done anything to make the sky any less blue. I told you all in the beginning of this topic that my personal philosophy is not that green. Having said that I do conserve. I probably have a higher percentage of CF light bulbs in my house than 95% of America. I even have a few LEDs that use almost no energy at all. I turn the water off while I brush my teeth. I use slightly less detergent than the box says and many other things that I won't go into detail listing. To me if is about conserving money. Everything comes down to money.

    Believe what you want. Question everything. Challenge convention. Don't be lead. Think for yourself.

    Now you know why I don't get overly concerned when I occasionally bury my foot on the farthest right pedal and lower my overall mpg average. I have assigned no morality to it either way. To me it is purely finances vs. emotion. - And I like going fast. :D
  2. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Re: I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought A

    Hi EXPiowa:

    ___Everything you have brought up so far has been discussed to the ends of the earth here over the years and there is very little new to argue about.

    ___Just as gas is $1.899 now; it was $4.299 just 6-months ago. There are two sides to that argument and if you believe in conspiracy theories and secrets, it is your prerogative. The real world unfortunately or not has to deal with the real costs today. Even $1.899 is to high for many.

    ___WRT burying your foot, again your choice and it is “OUR” air and all “OUR” mess that has to be cleaned up after the fact. 30% of the fatal accidents in this country are caused by speeding directly. As far as 0 – 60, burning a fuel that IS NOT BEING RENEWED is as foolish as spending your last $’s on a liter of vodka instead of staples including bread, milk and cheerios for your children’s breakfast in the morning. Boy does it feel good going down but there are consequences to such a decision. Unfortunately, those consequences are always felt by somebody else. Namely, almost 3,000 people in NY, PA. and Washington DC over 8 years ago :(

    ___Real emissions from consuming excess gallons of fuel... Dilution is the solution? If so, consider backing up the car to the house, piping the exhaust into it and fire her up for a few hours.

    ___Good Luck

  3. drimportracing

    drimportracing Pizza driver: 61,000+ deliveries

    Re: I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought A

    Diamonds are renewable too. But if your destroying them faster than they can be formed then you will eventually exhaust that resource. Oil is finite, wasteful, labor intensive and harmful to all of the environment. There are better options.

    These alternatives may not be as profitable at the beginning and it will take time to integrate and convert antiquated power systems but we can do with out coal and oil combustion. Wind and solar are much more assessable, less damaging and in time will be less expensive to produce the same amount of power. It too is a finite resource but with a much longer time line.

    We will be truly free from foreign oil when we are free from oil period. We as Americans will exhaust all of the other nations oil supplies until there is no other source to use then we will "discover" a vast amount in Alaska and other parts thought to have been depleted. It is a perceived shortage to control prices sooner than it should be but there will be a shortage.

    The oil companies found that they tightened the screws too hard on our economy and as a result Oil President Bush recently went to OPEC and said to lower prices or we would find other sources. The fighting will end and the war games will stop. If the excessive prices weren't funding the war on both sides and there truly was an almost out of oil condition then those prices would have stayed high.

    The war will soon be scaled down, with less federal taxes incoming, oil will go up slightly in the summer again, like it always does and we will stabilize our economy for awhile, oil companies will hope that with the prices not as drastic as 2008 we might forget this frivolous talk of alternative energy, they will continue to speak of the consequences and obstacles of using these new technologies through lobbyists, masked coalitions and ad agencies in hopes that we will revert back to our complacent Hummer driving ways.

    Until whatever aggressive power somewhere once more tries to gain a better hold on our wallets. It is a scam, but that doesn't change the fact that we are consuming incredible amounts of oil and the easy reserves will become fewer.

    China will soon be entering and enjoying there economic period that most resembled our 1950's economic boom, It will be swifter with current technology making the conversion easier and harder to control by their government. And with their want for western amenities will come more waste and pollution.

    We need to again be more self sufficient and we need to embrace a better way if we want to continue to enjoy our extraordinary level of comfort we have in comparison to most of the world. It needs to be done in a way that will preserve our natural resources, not exploit them. Leave something beautiful for future generations to behold.

    There are sheeple on both sides of this argument and unless you know everything, have amazing abilities to see through all the lies, misrepresentations, rumors and propaganda, it is going to be difficult to get a fair and accurate account of our condition.

    I find that when I'm most adamant about my position I am also most likely to be in err. Only when you can see both sides as being valid to a degree can you then fairly measure the worth in each position. Just my opinion. - Dale
  4. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Re: I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought A


    If I told you land in NYC, Hong Kong, most of Europe was limitless and cheap you would laugh me off the board...how is cheap oil infinite? The Saudi's are telling their own people they are running out. The part about oil companies holding back...afraid they are not quite that powerful as the more oil we have to get overseas, the less power Exxon/Mobil, Chevron, etc, gets.

    The oil companies are scaling back exploration due to the recession, setting us up for shortages when the economy picks up again. Do you remember that Mobil and Exxon were seperate corporations? The oil prices were so low in the 90's they merged. Dallas had the most oil millionaires in the 1960's....just about all the oil businesses are in Houston now. BTW, speculation did not cause the gas spikes in 73', 79', or after Katrina.

    Have you checked the asthma, pneumonia rates, and other respiratory diseases in LA and Houston? Is it concidence that is has something to do with their occasional brown skies? I'm not touching Global Warming - don't need to!

    I don't subscribe to questioning/challenging everything - I reserve that for true issues.

    EXPIOWA Man of Leisure

    Re: I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought A

    Wayne, I am not a speeder. I am a 0-60 guy. I admit that and it's probably bad but it is only a small percentage of my total driving. Being overly harsh with the pedal is hard on the car so it is rare but sometimes it happens.

    I love auto racing, jeeping and jetskiis. All are pointless wastes of fuel unless you enjoy them.

    I will also admit to having been involved in four car accidents while I was the driver. Each time my speed was exactly 0 mph. I was hit from behind by a drunk, a distracted teenage kid, and two different guys who weren't paying attention to their driving. All happened at stale red lights.

    I don't talk on my phone, eat, or text while driving. I have never been drunk in my life and have never driven under the influence. I am a gentleman driver behind the wheel.

    While on the topic of speed, is it possible that driving 50 in a 70 zone to save a drop of gas could cause a hazzard to motorists? I am all for a 50 mph lane. I would use it myself but we don't have them.

    This forum is a different place. Very few places will you will never hear the other side of the argument. Most people don't take the time to inform themselves. For example, most people don't even know who the Lt. Governor is for the state that they live in.

    Wayne, I'll be honest, your last comment is troublesome to me. I don't know how much bad intention to read into it.

    This may be my last post in your forum. I would still like to use the mileage tracker feature here. I may be wrong with some of the things that I have presented but it is only an opinion. There are two sides to every argument.

    Good Luck Wayne, and the rest of you. You are acting upon what you believe in and that's good.
  6. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Re: I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought A

    Really? My civics class mentioned something about the Freedom of Association - people being of like beliefs to freely group together...you are implying there is something terribly wrong with that - same for having convictions. Maybe someone at a pet forum should challenge convictions and promote animal sacrifices, skin pets alive as cusine? This is a similar train of thought. ;)

    I'm talking about the core values of hypermiling....don't throw Global Warming into that....we have hypermilers on both sides of that issue.

    Wayne started CleanMPG after he was the leading member of another site then they decided to echew hypermiling....ever since membership has dwindled considerably...that site is far more tolerant of members speeding in full-sized hybrid SUV's getting under 20mpg than Wayne imploring drivers to have some common sense with the accelerator.

    There are countless automotive forums....I guess CleanMPG should be like everyone else?

    To suggest members are not challenged on hypermiling you must be kidding! We all meet other people go to other sites, vast majority of us drive somewhere with plenty of people driving the exact opposite....just yesterday had some guy racing and made like they were going to ram me, then passed - honking that I was unintimidated or I would cave to him not thinking more than two seconds ahead so he could have glided on the three lanes to the left.

    You had been checking frequently on your provocative posts - why are you realistically expect CleanMPG is going to do a complete makeover? Someone else will make a similar thread and I guess we will have to totally change for them too.

    We are what we are.
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2009
  7. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    Re: I may not be a true hypermiler and I'm not that Green either. Caution - Thought A

    Alright, this is devolving into a re-hash of things we have already discussed at length. At the end of the day, CleanMPG's membership covers a spectrum of driving philosophies, the common grain being that we all have an interest in saving fuel when we drive. How much or how little effort goes into it is a personal choice, and I think we all recognize it. Let's please accept that and move forward.
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