Triple challenge

Discussion in 'Start Your Journey Here' started by SentraSE-R, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    We've had a few days of rain here in the Bay Area. I had to go shopping, so I tried my 25-40 mph P&G routine with lights and wipers on (required in CA when it's raining) back on my test route. I got 53.1 mpg, surprisingly good for having to charge the battery during pulses. Furthermore, I was able to keep my battery at or above 11.6 V during my experimenting.

    Then I tried P&G NICE-on with lights and wipers on, to see how much it hurts mileage, and got a reasonable 47.8 mpg with my 25-40 mph routine.

    Finally, to calibrate, I did a run without lights and wipers, and got 55.7 mpg, about my norm.

    Summing it up, lights and wipers only hurt my mileage about 2.6 mpg, or 5%. NICE-on hurts my mileage about 5.3 mpg, or 10%.
  2. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Above figures should also be compared to 39.0 mpg doing the same test route using cruise control at 40 mph, and 44.8 mpg using cruise control at 35 mph. I've been using 39.0 mpg as my baseline, because that's what I started with at the beginning, even though 44.8 mpg would be my new norm.

    In that light, dry weather P&G gives me a 44% improvement over my baseline steady-state driving. Lights-on P&G is still a 36% improvement, and lights-on NICE-on P&G is a 23% improvement. I'll be darned why I can't get that kind of improvement with my wife's AT car with NICE-on P&G.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2009
  3. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Warm weather, and better mileage, are on the way!

    I drove over to a town about 20 miles away to look for a more FE car (Scion xB), and got 49 mpg for the 25 mile drive with my Sentra. On the way back, I stopped at my test route, and tried some P&G NICE-on from 52-65 mph on the freeway, and compared it to cruise control at 55 mph. There wasn't too much difference, but my high speed P&G beat CC.

    Run 1 CC @ 55 mph = 42.1 mpg
    Run 2 CC @ 55 mph = 44.4 mpg

    Run 1 P&G NICE-on 52-62 mph = 42.3 mpg
    Run 1 P&G NICE-on 52-65 mph = 47.8 mpg
    Run 2 P&G NICE-on 52-65 mph = 45.2 mpg

    Then I ran my frontage road P&G 25-40 mph (my bread and butter regimen) route and got 61.3 mpg for the 10 miles. This was nearly 10% higher than my normal 56 mpg, although only 2 mpg higher than my previous best, so I ran a cruise-controlled run through the route and got 45.5 mpg, about 15% higher than my previous baseline. Apparently, today's warm weather is a harbinger of better mileage to come. Previously, I ran my cruise-controlled baseline when I first arrived at the beginning of the route, so the car may have been colder on those runs, making the baseline a little artificially low.

    Driving home from my test route, I got 51 mpg for that 9 mile drive. Not bad - about 50 mpg in real-world driving.
  4. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    You are doing very well! :thumbs_up:

    Keep us posted. :)
  5. PaleMelanesian

    PaleMelanesian Beat the System Staff Member

    You should consider joining the FE challenge next time around. I think you'd do well. The next one should start in March.
  6. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I'll think about it, but I'm so competitive, I might just drive up 7000' to Truckee the night before the competition starts, fill my gas tank the next morning, get 220% of my EPA combined mileage driving home, and park the car for the next 89 days ;) Seriously, the mileage you committed drivers get is awesome, and I'd be proud to join you. I really don't drive much, being retired, so I can cherry pick my drives for best mileage. I already know I'll be gone a month of the competition time, so I think I would do well.
  7. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I worked on refining my high speed P&G, NICE-on today. My previous HSP&G included a turnaround, as I was paralleling my frontage road route. That turnaround introduced a lot of variability, so today I ran a longer route between two exits, and got the car up to a steady 55 mph in 6th gear before resetting the current trip average mpg on the fly to do my tests. The distance timed was about 7 miles of all-highway driving, and I ran it both directions to average out any wind and downhill/uphill variables.


    Southbound Run 1 cruise controlled 55 mph = 40.7 mpg
    Southbound Run 1 CC 55 mph = 39.8 mpg
    Northbound Run 2 CC 55 mph = 39.7 mpg

    Southbound Run 1 P&G 52-65 mph = 43.3 mpg
    Northbound Run 1 P&G 52-65 mph = 42.1 mpg
    Northbound Run 2 drafting 2 seconds back @ 62 mph = 40.8 mpg
    Southbound Run 1 P&G 52-62 mph = 45.7 mpg
    Northbound Run 2 P&G 52-62 mph = 48.0 mpg* I made a mental error here and pulled off one exit early, thinking I was done, so the results aren't based on a complete run. Still I was on a good run, and think I could have beaten 46 mpg for the full run.

    Average of both directions, all runs, 55 mph w/cruise control = 40.1 mpg
    P&G 52-65 mph = 42.7 mpg
    P&G 52-62 mph = >45.7 mpg
  8. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I visited my wife at work, and ran up and down the highway to confirm yesterday's P&G NICE-on tests. I was wrong about being on a good northbound run yesterday. One of my northbound runs had me at similar good starting mileage as yesterday, but it dropped down to normal before the end of the run. My southbound results consistently beat northbound, whether using CC or wider deltas.

    Northbound Run 2 P&G 52-62 mph = 44.6 mpg
    Southbound Run 3 P&G 52-62 mph = 45.9 mpg
    Northbound Run 3 P&G 52-62 mph = 44.3 mpg

    Average of both directions, all runs, 55 mph w/cruise control = 40.1 mpg
    P&G 52-65 mph = 42.7 mpg
    P&G 52-62 mph = 45.1 mpg

    One thing I'm learning is to match revs better on HS P&G. It's not worth gaining 5 mpg if I have to buy a new clutch 2000 miles sooner.
  9. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I went shopping for our Valentines Day dinner, and got 44.1 mpg for the day's driving - 65.6 miles, most of it in totally new territory. I had to go to a larger town to get live lobster, and made a farm stop for dried fruit for my mom. All-in-all, I was pretty satisfied, and got 46.7 mpg for the last 21 mile leg from the farm to home.
  10. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    As a follow-up to the message below, I finally got my friend's mileage log. The Monterey trip was best compared to a trip she took to Arizona over Christmas, when she logged fill-ups of 39.6 mpg (325 mi), 32.8 mpg (207 mi), 31.7 mpg (241 mi), 35.6 mpg (288 mi), 39.1 mg (306 mi), and 36.2 mpg (156 mi). Overall, she logged 1523 miles on 42.3 gallons, or 36 mpg, close to her car's 2008 37 mpg estimated highway mpg. My hypermiling 43.4 mpg in her car beats her best mileage by about 10%, her average long-haul mileage by about 21%, and her combined EPA mileage estimate of 31 mpg by 40%.

  11. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    FWIW, my friend's city mileage in her 07 MT Corolla is dismal. She has two fill-ups this month. The first got her 26.1 mpg over 183 miles. The second got her 23.6 mpg over 220 miles.
  12. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Today I compared windows closed, AC on, and sunroof open during high speed P&G, NICE-on. I recalibrated my SG again, so the current mpg figures only relate to today's testing. 52-62 mph P&G, dry, 60 degrees F, sunny, 5-10 mph north wind.

    Windows closed:
    Southbound 40.5 mpg
    Northbound 40.5 mpg

    AC on:
    Southbound 38.1 mpg
    Northbound 38.9 mpg

    Sunroof open:
    Southbound 42.7 mpg
    Northbound 42.3 mpg

    The sunroof results will need to be run again, as I doubt my car's Cd is better with the rear of the window tilted up. I made the sunroof runs coincidentally behind trucks who were traveling my average speed, and I ranged 2-6 seconds behind them as I pulsed and glided. For now, I'm assuming my sunroof mileage is better because of a drafting effect, not because of the sunroof being tilted up. I'm also guessing my sunroof doesn't harm my average mpg significantly. Further testing may change my assumptions.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  13. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Yesterday's results were suspicious, so I checked again today. The difference falls within experimental error. In fact, my car may actually get slightly better mileage with the sunroof open, rather than closed!

    Cruise control @ 55 mph, sunroof closed. Car warmed up, 60ºF, dry, cloudy, with 10 mph crosswind.
    Southbound 34.8 mpg
    Northbound 36.3 mpg

    Cruise control @ 55 mph, sunroof open.
    Southbound 34.3 mpg
    Northbound 37.9 mpg

    P&G 52-62 mph, sunroof closed
    Southbound 38.2 mpg
    Northbound 41.5 mpg

    P&G 52-62 mph, sunroof open
    Southbound 41.3 mpg
    Northbound 41.2 mpg

    P&G 45-62 mph different delta, sunroof open
    Southbound 41.0 mpg

    I averaged 37.7 mpg over four runs with the sunroof closed, and 1 mpg more (38.68 mpg) with the sunroof open.

    I averaged 35.83 mpg over four runs with cruise control, and nearly 5 mpg better (40.55 mpg) with NICE-on P&G.
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  14. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    That's mighty odd (considering the logical assumptions). I wonder why you are getting these results?
  15. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    It's probably caused by experimental or sampling error. I try to standardize each test by getting my car up to 55 mph, then resetting the SG before entering my mileage testing routine.

    All I can say is the open sunroof's effect on my car's mileage must be minimal. HS P&G is definitely beneficial for mileage, about 5 mpg worth. AC is definitely bad, to the tune of 2 mpg. By definitely beneficial, I mean both runs in both directions show one test parameter consistently winning. That's not so with the sunroof tests, where half the results show the sunroof closed is better, and the other half show the sunroof open is better. There's only a 1 mpg difference between sunroof open and sunroof closed results in any case.
  16. drimportracing

    drimportracing Pizza driver: 61,000+ deliveries

  17. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I put all my newly learned skills to the test last weekend - a 1000 mile trip to San Diego and back. I got 43.8 mpg from the Bay Area to the Simi Valley where I tanked up. My next tank got 43.1 mpg from the Simi Valley to San Diego and back, including local drives to restaurants, homes, parks, etc. visiting with family. My current tank is running at 42.1 mpg, because I had the car loaded down with about 800 lbs. of oranges and tangerines. My previous average mileages for the trip ran between 36 and 38 mpg, with an absolute best of 40 mpg, so high speed P&G, and DWL, helped get me nearly 10% better mileage. I'd have done even better, if I'd remembered my best high speed delta is 52-65. I was P&Ging between 52-62. Doh.
  18. Right Lane Cruiser

    Right Lane Cruiser Penguin of Notagascar

    Nice work, Darrell!! :thumbs_up:
  19. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    I got new LRR tires (General Exclaim UHPs) yesterday, and took the car out for a drive. My tank mileage was looking poor, but after I put 60 miles on it at 52 mpg, it's looking a whole lot better now ;).

    It was warm, about 75 degrees, so I ran my 19.8 mile baseline with P&G 25-40 mph delta, and got about 53.5 (about normal) mpg with the SG calibration at 38 (higher than normal). I was running out of time, as I had to meet a friend at home, so I ran 5 miles with the windows completely down. I was surprised my mileage was just about the same as with the windows closed, nearly 52 mpg at my turnaround point. If I'd driven back, I figure my mileage would have been very close to 53.5 mpg. It's too much to expect no penalty for driving with the windows down, but the penalty likely isn't much.
  20. SentraSE-R

    SentraSE-R Pishtaco

    Here's a graph showing cruise control speeds v. mpg over a 10 mile mostly level drive in 4th, 5th, and 6th gears. I've included a P&G data point for comparison.

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