.gov: Antarctic NOT melting

Discussion in 'Environmental' started by andy, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. andy

    andy Well-Known Member

  2. koreberg

    koreberg Junior Member

    Did you not see the matrix of climate change doom? All must support global climate change initiatives, or the consequences could be far worse than you think. Just look for the matrix it will explain all.
     
  3. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Someone explain to me all the documentation since the 1950's the Artic icecap is thinning by the US Navy - navigating the Northwest Passage is now possible for surface ships and the Artic will be ice-free in the summer between 2013 and 2040?

    Yes, I know it's the other pole but this is relvalant.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2008
  4. mparrish

    mparrish Rosie the Riveter Redux

    Yes Andy, we are all aware of Inhofe and his position.
     
  5. brick

    brick Answers to "that guy."

    The funny part is the big oil derreck on his public web page. Gee, I wonder where his campaign contributions come from? But just for the sake of argument, let's say that we aren't contributing to global climate change. So what? Should we abandon renewables, buy thirstier cars, and stop worrying about efficiency in the home?

    I suggest that the correct answer is "hell no!" GW/GCC/whatever you want to call it is only one of the many reasons that we can't just keep doing what we have been doing. Pick from any of energy security, our economy, public health, money coming out of your own pocket...all of which stand on their own. Politicising this one issue is nothing more than a distraction. Bury it completely and we still have a very big problem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2008
  6. phoebeisis

    phoebeisis Well-Known Member

    There are other indicators of warming.
    The ocean PH is dropping from the increased C02 in it.
    The ocean temps are rising.
    Sea level have already risen over the last 100 years.
    CO2 in the atm has increased from 280 ppm in 1780 to 380 ppm currently.The CO2 levels are from ice cores.
    Of course to believe the above you have to believe that data from 50-100 years ago is accurate.

    No one can make you believe anything.It has become tangled up in political and social BS.

    The melting ice caps aren't what will cause the oceans to rise. The expansion of the warmer water is what will cause the sea level to rise.

    In some ways it is moot, since the solution to our energy problem(foreign energy) is almost the same as to Global warming. We need alternatives energy sources-wind,nuke,solar etc. Increased use of coal is the point where the solutions diverge.
    Charlie
     
  7. fuzzy

    fuzzy Mild hypermiler

    This is not the ' *.gov' view, it is Senator Inhofe's view. He is just one out of 535 politically biased congresscritters on Capitol Hill. Is there any particular reason I should trust this particular voice any more than the other 534?

    -- Dean
     
  8. Chuck

    Chuck just the messenger

    Anyone think a blog should be taken as serously as a publication?
     
  9. ILAveo

    ILAveo Well-Known Member

  10. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    That is one of the funniest posts I've read. No against you IlAveo, but just that the Dinosaurs had to live in a really warm climate. This paleantologist is finding bones from animals that lived in a really warm climate sometime before the present, and now it is frozen solid and we are using the paleontologists anecdotal evidence that the climate is warming. Really, how do you think the dinosaurs would feel about the warming.

    How ironic, the bones were from a really warm climate, and now are frozen. Climate change, it looks like that is what Antartica is all about.
     
  11. ILAveo

    ILAveo Well-Known Member

    I take your point, but it is obvious spin doctoring to call a prominent PhD antarctic geologist's observations of antarctic climate change "anecdotal." If antarctic geolgists aren't experts in that field, who possibly could be:eyebrow:? Please provide details:).
     
  12. bestmapman

    bestmapman Fighting untruth and misinformation

    Paleontology is the study of fossils. Weather and climate change is not a paleontologist expertise. It is anecdotal, because it is an observation by an unskilled observer. This would be no different than a janitor observing what the weather was doing.

    The definition of anecdotal evidence is:

    "Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis."

    I believe that is exactly what he is doing. Anecdotal was not meant as a slam, just a description of what it is. An observation from a casual observer.
     
  13. litesong

    litesong litesong

    A really old thread, here's some new info & video about Antarctica ground underneath the ice:
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/12/antarctic-video-reveals-deepest-canyon-earth
    In the past I have mentioned some Antarctic ices have driven land masses deep under ocean sea levels. Not only are the land masses deep, but the ices themselves are 8000+ feet under water. Now, new mapping studies, reveal deeply driven Antarctic land forms.
    From the article:
    ......the map uses the flow and volume of ice to infer the land below. It has revealed the deepest canyon on Earth’s surface, plunging 3.5 kilometers (nearly 11,500 feet) below sea level under Denman Glacier (in Queen Mary Coast[Land]) in East Antarctica.....
    Also from the article:
    ....at West Antarctica’s fastest melting glacier, Thwaites, the news was not good: The glacier is grounded on a ridge below sea level, with a downward sloping basin behind it. The project hoped to turn up more ridges on the basin that could help hold back warm water as Thwaites retreats beyond the two already known. None was found.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019
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  14. litesong

    litesong litesong

    The following is a more detailed examination of the Thwaites Glacier dynamics:
    https://phys.org/news/2019-12-impact-calving-retreat-thwaites-glacier.html
    Underwater drones have been examining Antarctic ice shelves for years, that are grounded as much as 8000+ feet underwater, discovering "recently" deeply carved underwater & "up-side down" ice canyons in ice shelves, thought to be caused by AGW warming currents, flowing from warmer waters from the north. Some years ago, these "reversed canyons" had contours as deep as 600 feet. Under continuing warm water threat, the ice shelves are also decreasing toward their grounding points &/or could lighten enough as to LIFT OFF their grounding points.
    Now from the article:
    "We think that possibly in a few years or decades..... the remainder of the ice shelf in front of Thwaites might be gone," explained Hongju Yu, an assistant specialist at the University of California, Irvine and lead author of the new study.

    If the ice shelf disappeared, it would no longer provide resistance to the glacier's flow, allowing the glacier to accelerate. The glacier would then begin losing mass mainly through increasing breakup of chunks of ice at its leading edge—a process called calving.......

    In the worst-case scenario, Thwaites could completely collapse within 60 to 70 years, according to the study's authors. Other scenarios predict the glacier to remain stable for an additional century. In each scenario, once Thwaites Glacier retreats past the ridge that anchors it to land, the retreat becomes unstoppable.
    If Thwaites collapsed, it could raise global sea level by more than half a meter (nearly two feet) and lead to a domino effect of further glacier collapse in West Antarctica.
     
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  15. xcel

    xcel PZEV, there's nothing like it :) Staff Member

    Hi Litesong:

    Not good. :(

    Wayne
     
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  16. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Don't worry, Wayne. I didn't tell you the worst......even tho the article told the "worst-case scenario". Yeah, something worse "beyond" the "worst-case scenario".
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2019
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  17. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Drilling ice holes & a submarine will examine reasons why Thwaits Glacier is melting so quickly:
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-why-antarctic-glacier-is-melting-so-quickly
    From the article:
    Thwaites glacier is already responsible for about 4% of the global sea level rise, as the ice slips off the land and into the sea. But because the ice shelf is melting and thinning, the glacier is speeding up. Thwaites itself contains enough ice to raise global sea levels by more than 2 feet (61cm), but it holds back other inland glaciers that contain far more ice, enough to raise global sea levels by more than 2 metres.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  18. NeilBlanchard

    NeilBlanchard Well-Known Member

    It is important to point out that Antarctica is a case in point for how quickly our climate is transforming - in 2014 Antarctica set a RECORD HIGH for ice area, and now - it is at a RECORD LOW.

    Click on the Antarctic button on the right side: https://ads.nipr.ac.jp/vishop/#/extent

    We know now why the Antarctica ice area was growing: more evaporation leads to more precipitation. But in only about 5 years, the warming has hit the threshold to completely reverse the buildup, by melting more quickly than it was increasing.
     
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  19. litesong

    litesong litesong

    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  20. litesong

    litesong litesong

    In 2007 to inform people to the knowledge of Arctic fragility, Lewis Pugh swam in minus 1.7degC water, at the North Pole for 1KM, taking almost 19 minutes to make the swim. He has no act based on egotism, but has a dedicated life direction to portray the accelerating change to the tips of the Earth. Other swims north of the 80th parallel N., & south of the 65th parallel S., has prepared Lewis for possibly his most dangerous swim.
    https://lewispughfoundation.org/east-antarctica-2020
    From the article:
    Scientists have now discovered over 65,000 supra-glacial lakes on top of the East Antarctic Ice Sheet.
    On 22nd January 2020, Lewis Pugh will attempt to swim where no human has swum before: 1km across a supra-glacial lake in East Antarctica. Slava Fetisov will be his second, responsible for protecting Lewis in this endeavour.
    This will be the hardest swim of Lewis's life. Not only will there be freezing water, and a severe wind chill factor, but there is also the very real threat of the lake suddenly emptying out through a crack in the ice sheet. "Courage is contagious," says Lewis. "That’s why I want Slava by my side.”
     

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